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 Question about rollers

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Loosemarbles
K-Hill
jmaslak
lalee
RickV
tinman
RArch
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bigbird
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trouble1100
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adventure boy
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jwt827
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Question about rollers - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 15, 2013 8:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone know how to tell when rollers need to be changed?
what would be an indication of that need?
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 9:10 pm

tinman wrote:
Big bird ,the sanding was ever so lightly with  emery cloth .It might be the problem but what about the rpm . At 100 klph some time the rpm is at 4600 and the next time it is 5500 at 100 klph.I was thinking that the sliders might be sticking now and then
I agree with the sticking sliders. I would pull them, clean them and the ramp plate and cavities where the sliders sit with brake cleaner, and reassemble with no lube of any kind in there.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 9:48 pm

Big bird ,I did notice when cleaning the cavities That some of them looked rough in texture and could cause the sliders to stick,where when the stock rollers were not affected by the rough texture that looks like spider webbing in some of the pockets.For less then $100. It might be good to replace The drive face plates and get some peace of mind.Is there an up grade other then the stock drive face out there .I find a lot of the aluminum castings that looks rough and not as it should be IMO.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 12:17 am

tinman wrote:
Is there an up grade other then the stock drive face out there .I find a lot of the aluminum castings that looks rough and not as it should be IMO.
Not that I'm aware of.
If you think the aluminum cavities of the inner drive face are worn rough, perhaps they could be sandblasted, or just replace it altogether.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 1:13 am

Thanks for the input Big bird. I have to replace the oil seal and O ring come spring time and get new drive clutch so I don't have any down time when the riding come spring time.
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lowkey
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Number of posts : 26
Location : northern california
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 5:49 pm

bigbird wrote:

For lowkey, the more you twist the throttle on takeoff, the higher your rpm will start out. If you don't want your engine revving over 2.5k at takeoff, then just roll the throttle on gently. The nice thing about the sliders is that if you want/need great initial acceleration, it's there with the sliders. With the stock rollers, you get a lot of belt slap and vibration along with moderate acceleration.
Thank you Mr bigbird.  That was helpful.
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RickV
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 7:19 pm

Tinman,

The Spring of 2012 I replaced my stock rollers with 26g sliders and also replaced both ramp plates because of groves on the face and also a rough surface in the roller slots - this was with about 14k on my 2002 [much appreciated the tech expertise supplied by Bigbird during the install]. In addition, some of the rollers had groves around the entire surface and there was significant belt dust and such behind the variator. If you are interested, there are some pics in my album of the rollers, roller slots and the drive face.

Also, I have not experienced any issues with the "V" light coming on except when it his 16k and my rpm at 70mph has dropped about 400rpm.

Not beating the dead horse here - just some more info.

Rick V
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 10:47 pm

Rick V

Thank's for your input, I looked at your photos and I have similar ware on the clutch plates and in the roller pockets . I will replace every thing in the spring.I have no heat in my small garage and it's freezing right now.Sad
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 11:43 pm

Do I have to have an opinion on this? I think I will depend on the pros in this forum when the time comes that my rollers and v-belt fail. I have 10,500 miles on my Swing.

Lots of good information shared by very helpful forum members on here, for sure.
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Lalee   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 26, 2013 8:46 am

The only thing offensive is the picture of your G/W. Ha Ha Just kidding.
I thought about buying one for a long time but I believe I have gotten rid of the urge for now.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 30, 2013 12:00 pm

Tinman, one thing I'll point out - if you haven't followed the book procedure for installing the variator bolt, buy a new bolt and follow the procedure (not torquing it properly, particularly over-torquing, will deform the bolt and damage it - it's a VERY special bolt [you can look up Honda's patent on it if you don't believe me] that does away with the need for a lock washer, but the downside is it can be damaged by tightening as hard as you can).  I also highly recommend using a variator holder tool of some type while tightening by hand and not using an impact tool - so your torque really is what you expect it to be.  I also wonder if Tinman might have pinched the belt while tightening, although I would have expected it to fall off by now if that was it.
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tinman
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 30, 2013 12:41 pm

jmaslak I routinely remove and inspect my drive system at every oil change , and I oil the threads like my service manual call's for and I have a variator tool and tork wrench. My problem started when I installed Dr pully 24 gram sliders and new belt . The pocket where the sliders go, some have a rough surface and I think the sliders stick's in some of the pockets. My Honda dealer want's $186.20 for the movable face,face drive oil seal and O ring. Ordering on line from Caliber - Pro Caliber .Com ,the parts will cost $ 88.19  plus shipping and taxes,at a cost saving Of about $70.00 . I will order new parts on line next week pending a confirmed price,and for $22.00 xtra I will get the new rollers.My dealer wants $44.00 for the same roller.{ just incase the sliders continue to stick.
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K-Hill
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Number of posts : 21
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 11:22 am

OK, I need some advice. I have an 06 Swing and generally ride 2-up. I'm a bigger guy (260 lbs) and my gal is around 160 lbs. I'm looking for the best acceleration and anti-slapping roller weight, BUT don't want to lose torque on the bottom end and be able to get the both of us moving. I hate to buy 3 sets of sliders just to experiment with (OEM 28g, 26g, and 24g) so, if anyone here is moving that kind of weight, I'ld love to know your setup.

Any advice is appreciated.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 11:55 am


A good place to start would be the search bar above. There is a mine of information and personal experience in there, some people have gone below 24g. It might be one of the most talked about topics on the SW, and all CVTs I expect.

Your answers may be lurking in there somewhere, though please keep us posted on your solution and how you find the right balance.








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K-Hill
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 21
Location : Portland, OR
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Registration date : 2022-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 12:35 pm

Loosemarbles wrote:

A good place to start would be the search bar above. There is a mine of information and personal experience in there, some people have gone below 24g. It might be one of the most talked about topics on the SW, and all CVTs I expect.

Your answers may be lurking in there somewhere, though please keep us posted on your solution and how you find the right balance.

Thank you, I'vebeen reading this thread and think I have it narrowed down to those 3 weights. I was hoping someone in a similar situation had already done the experimenting and could save me a few bucks. Wink
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Erdoc48
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 12:49 pm

OK, here’s my $0.02:
I switched to the 26G Dr. Pulley sliders (from the OEM rollers) and have been VERY happy with them (using the OEM variator)- acceleration is really decent and it lowers the top end RPM when at highway speed (I assume ~ 2-300 RPM at 70 mph). It’s a lower HP bike so if the load on the bike is 420 lbs, it’s not likely to be that quick anyway, just due to the weight carried. As funny as it sounds, I lost ~ 45 lbs since October 2022 and the ‘butt dyno’ makes it seem like my SWing is quicker to accelerate (it likely is as it’s not carrying the extra weight)- ride 2 up and it’’s expected to be a bit slower. I did my research on this site before buying the 26G sliders. Go too light and it’ll spin up very rapidly and acceleration will be quite good (but RPM’s suffer as they’re kind of high at the top end- Delray did that  with his SWing and he was astounded by the acceleration, but I assume a little disappointed at highway speeds). Go too heavy and it takes time (I assume) for the variator to spin up, so you’re likely to have more top end, but less acceleration. For me, the 26G weight was the sweet spot (but that’s just my limited experience, not having tried other weight sliders). Others will say here and I agree…if you’re removing the variator anyway, it would be a solid idea to check the drive belt and replace if it’s due, grease the rear bearings on the drive side with NLG2 (driven face) and check your clutch pads (which are visible when taking the driven face off the rear).
Also, I’ve read here when installing the sliders, so use a graphite powder as a lube in the variator channels where the sliders sit (I didn’t use it). One other thing (and I’m no expert, but I do recall seeing that as an issue with lightweight sliders)- go too light and the belt change light may unexpectedly come on (not a big deal, but would need to be reset as long as you’re minding the mileage on the belt)- I haven’t had that happen at all with the 26G sliders.

Good luck!


Last edited by Erdoc48 on Sun May 21, 2023 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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K-Hill
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 1:02 pm

Thanks for the input. Smile I replaced the drive belt when I got the scoot and only have a couple hundred miles on it as of now. I'll probably throw the dice on the 26g and cross my fingers.
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JohnyC
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 1:50 pm

Hi K-Hill just my pennies worth.

I would recommend replacing the driven clutch spring with a "Malossi White contra spring" first as the cheapest way to enhance the Swings performance, if you feel confident enough to do it(search Malossi White for my post).
Then 27g Dr.P sliders for better freeway mpg.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!


https://drpulley.co/product/sliding-roller-weight-28x20-8/

Select from drop down menue
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 4:20 pm

https://www.silverwing600.com/t12959-malossi-white-contra-spring-17kgs?highlight=Malossi+white

^^ That’s the link to JohnyC’s thread- pretty interesting how varying the slider vs roller weights vs the rear spring makes all that difference in acceleration and top speed RPM’s. I’m not as qualified a mechanic as many here- CVT’s scare me (and yes, just kidding)- I’m part time these days so I don’t have the $$$ to experiment with new parts.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun May 21, 2023 7:57 pm

Just for what it's worth. I am not sure about the proper rollers/sliders as I use 28g sliders. That said, if memory serves the max weight limit for the Silver Wing is 375 pounds... So with a 579cc bike you are over the limit by 50 pounds riding 2 up and that does not allow for any extra gear. My thought is don't expect miracles with the rollers/sliders. I had the same problem so to solve it I got a Goldwing.

I guess the answer is how far you intend to ride 2 up? For short hops you should be OK but any long distances will be hard on the bike and not very comfortable...
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Meldrew
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Meldrew


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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22, 2023 1:29 am

I never changed anything internally when I had my Silver Wing, and had some very enjoyable UK and European rides with Mrs M until she decided to stop.

Performance with a passenger and luggage was never a problem even passing long lines of trucks on German autobahn. We rode quite a few 300 miles plus days without discomfort.

Handling was better than the previously owned lardass Burgman 650, and surprisingly fuel consumption was almost the same as for solo riding.

The only things I changed for carrying a passenger were upping the tyre pressures and the rear show settings from 3 to 5, pretty much what Honda recommend in the Silver Wing Handbook.

When I traded in the Silver Wing for the Forza, the Honda dealership were pleased everything was OE, screen, rear shocks, exhaust, and hadn't added any 'Dr Pepper' mods.
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22, 2023 4:54 am

Could Admin remove Meldrew's post please as it has no relevance to the original post.
I for one am fed up of reading the same comments on every post they respond too.

Maybe give them their own Haters forum rather than have them ruin every good post placed here.

What say the rest of members ?

Time for a change!

Be safe, be seen!
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Meldrew
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Meldrew


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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22, 2023 5:45 am

JohnyC wrote:
Could Admin remove Meldrew's post please as it has no relevance to the original post.
I for one am fed up of reading the same comments on every post they respond too.

Be safe, be seen!

But obviously not heard.

I find it rather weird you're getting wound up over a topic originally started ten years ago. That's a decade before you joined this forum after buying a Silver Wing. Yet in the last six months you've became a self-styled and self-appointed tech expert on the Silver Wing.


Finally in these gender obsessed times, I'm 'he' and not a 'they'.

Have a nice day.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 22, 2023 11:43 am

The age of topics makes them valuable for future reference, kind of like a reference library.

Roll on!
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 24, 2023 3:05 am

K-Hill wrote:
Thanks for the input. Smile  I replaced the drive belt when I got the scoot and only have a couple hundred miles on it as of now. I'll probably throw the dice on the 26g and cross my fingers.

You are most likely making the right call at 26g.
All lower weights do is allow the bike to rev a little higher, like hanging onto a gear longer with a manual box, but you've only got 50hp so don't expect miracles.
I tried 25g and had the orange cvt light coming on all the time because it was reving a bit higher than the ECU thought it should!
I'm now on 26g rollers, it works for us two up (about 180kg). At 60mph it's now pulling 5k revs rather than 4.5k with the original 28g rollers.
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K-Hill
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed May 24, 2023 1:48 pm

JohnyC wrote:
Hi K-Hill just my pennies worth.

I would recommend replacing the driven clutch spring with a "Malossi White contra spring" first as the cheapest way to enhance the Swings performance, if you feel confident enough to do it(search Malossi White for my post).
Then 27g Dr.P sliders for better freeway mpg.
Select from drop down menue

Thank you. I ordered the White spring and it's on the way. I'll get some sliders as well an do both at the same time. Wink
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Question about rollers   Question about rollers - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu May 25, 2023 6:15 am

Hi K-Hill, here's a few important heads up that I didn't cover in my original post about working on the Swing drive system.

1) The only cover you need to remove apart from the drive system covers is the passenger foot peg to gain access.
2) You will need 2 containers to keep the drive system cover bolts separated, strip the plastic outer 2 covers and put to one side with the bolts.
3) Before removing the inner Ali drive cover mark the bolt location holes with a marker pen around the outer edge. Don't miss the recessed 8mm bolt in the middle left. Keep bolts separate from the outer cover bolts. Trust me they are different.

With the Ali cover removed you now have 2 Nuts to crack, 17mm on the left and a recessed 22mm on the right spindle. I found it easier to crack the 22mm nut with the Swing on the side stand because you need to lock the back wheel using the hand brake and probably the back brake as well. Once 22mm nut is cracked place back on the centre stand. The rest is just a simple strip down now as per original post. Remove the left hand 17mm nut, drive plate and belt before removing 22mm nut and driven plate assembly.

Also just remember to check the amount of grease in the rear needle bearing of the R/H driven plate assembly when you strip it to install the malossi White spring, as pointed out in my original post.

Final torque settings for the 2 main nuts, left hand 17mm is 103 Nms
                                                           Right hand 22mm is 54 Nms

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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