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 S'wing turbo

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rodenbach
sanjiyan69
dspevack
scooterboyz
8 posters
AuthorMessage
scooterboyz
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 25
Age : 55
Location : new haven, ct
Points : 4262
Registration date : 2012-10-24

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PostSubject: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02, 2012 10:34 pm

do turbos exist for silverwings/, purchaseable from a company or are they all custom jobs? If so, does any one know of any company names or the names of top fabricators/customisers that can take on and sucessfully complete such a project
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02, 2012 10:40 pm

My local custom performance shop said they could turbocharge my wing, but then any shop could claim that. They have turbocharged many bikes but not a silverwing before.

The university that did the turbo for the wing's engine has their paper online which is very detailed. You might even find a reference if you search this site.

Dan
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scooterboyz
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 25
Age : 55
Location : new haven, ct
Points : 4262
Registration date : 2012-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm

thanks Dan Smile do you happen to remember the University name and the heading of the paper they published
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02, 2012 11:09 pm

Check the link in my sig for some interesting charts. Smile
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02, 2012 11:18 pm

Turbocharging a Silverwing engine.

http://www.mtukrc.org/download/buffalo/suny_buffalo_design_paper_2005.pdf
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sanjiyan69
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
sanjiyan69


Number of posts : 32
Age : 45
Location : Grand Rapids, MI
Points : 5528
Registration date : 2009-05-17

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11, 2012 2:18 pm

I think the one of the school that turbo charged a Silverwing is Michigan Tech University. Let me see what I can find.
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rodenbach
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
rodenbach


Number of posts : 321
Age : 67
Location : Belgium
Points : 4669
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11, 2012 4:06 pm

Here's a couple of reflections on turbocharging a Silverwing:

Since then gear ratio can't be changed, the top speed won't increase. I've ridden my stock SW up to the rev limiter @ about 8500 rpm. I can assure you that my heart skipped some beats in sinc with the ignition, riding over 180 kph (112Mph) with the engine misfiring...

The CVT is using a rubber belt to get the power to the rear wheel. I'm not sure this belt will cope with a serious increase of (turbo-) power.

In turbo-designed engines, the compression ratio is lower that in a similar atmospheric engine, to prevent detonation. Turbo engines all have knock sensors, the SW doesn't.

What about turbo-lag? My previous car was a 200 BHP SAAB turbo. When flooring it on anything but dry tarmac, the wheels would start to spin, causing the ESP to cut off the power. I wouldn't like to ride a 500 lbs scooter with a rear tire that would get out of control...

The only thing I really miss from my turbo days, is the popping sound of the waste valve...


Last edited by rodenbach on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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scooterboyz
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 25
Age : 55
Location : new haven, ct
Points : 4262
Registration date : 2012-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11, 2012 6:14 pm

thanks for the responses. compression ration would no doubt have to be lowered to somewhere in the 8psi range. the top speed would increase slightly due to more available torque. i'm not saying that it would suddenly be faster than a 650 burgman. i'm looking at the snatch-a** accelleration that would suddenly become available. i've seen a few turbo scooters on youtube ( youtube search, yamaha tmax turbo and view video by khaled ). these bikes run like scolded dogs. while at youtube, look up japanese custom maxi scooters and get an idea of where a silverwing can go.
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11, 2012 7:22 pm

Sanjiyan69,

I linked to the design paper in my post above. If you know of another one we'd love to see it.

Rodenbach,

The problem I have with adding a turbo is the turbo kicking in when I'm not ready for it and breaking the tires loose. I don't want to go down.
Since I don't straight line race, I see no value to me.

scooterboyz,

Compression ratio is addressed in the paper I linked to.

Dan
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 86
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 5666
Registration date : 2010-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12, 2012 2:14 am

My personal opinion on installing a turbo on a S/W would be a waste of time.
Although they can be made to perform on a automatic transmission equipped vehicle(Buick Grand Sport)I do not think a scooter with a cvt transmission would be suitable.Basically the turbo packs more volume into the cylinder much like having a longer stroke(like increasing the cubic inches) and more torque. I had a standard transmission 64 Chevrolet Corvair Spyder in the 70's that had a turbo. I changed the compressor side and the exhaust system to increase the HP.It would fool a lot of people. With the advancement in technology I believe you will see more small engines with turbo's in the future.
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
scooterboyz
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 25
Age : 55
Location : new haven, ct
Points : 4262
Registration date : 2012-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12, 2012 8:02 pm

thanks DSPEVACK and NWSSC. I'm looking into michigan tech archives as we type. I downloaded the entire research info from buffalo university that you linked me to. loved it . very very detailed. thanks a lot. the reason i keep asking so many questions is that if i found a fabricator or company that could produce the end result that i'm looking to achieve, i want to be as informed as possible.


I get the idea that most of the readers of my post seriously believe i have a death wish or i'm out to kill my bike. thats very far from the truth. i've been riding sence i was a little boy. i have been down once in all those years, just a year ago and it was very serious. when i came "to", my right elbow was 2 inches from my mouth, just for starters. i don't take this lightly and would not do anything stupid. there are times and places for everything. there are times and places to open it up. i use my head at all times. my "extra" activities are always in secluded areas where the only person at risk is me and the runoff areas :}


if i can find a quality turbo setup, so be it. i'm also researching superchargers for motorcycle engines. if that turns out to be the better path to take then i'll go that route. i'm just saving the money and doing the research at this point. i'm looking for a permanent power and torque increase of about 20% which be significent for the wing. know of any supercharger projects?

thanks for reading. i check everyday for responses rather they are pro or con because i need both
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12, 2012 10:13 pm

When you are absolutely resolved to put in a turbocharger,
and you have at least THREE GRAND (Incl r/t shipping) set aside,
and you are willing to ship a bike down to Miami FL for the R&D and install,
I will provide you with the name of a performance shop down here that has offered to do a turbo for me.
They are long time clients of my business, and I will not let you waste their time working up a plan and price for someone that isn't serious.
Notice clearly that I said "R&D" no one to my knowledge has made a retail turbo kit for the Silverwing.

You might also try http://www.silverwing.it/ This is an Italian Silverwing site that I believe has a member with a racing Silverwing with a turbo in it. You'll have to do the research to get in touch with the member who has it, and then see if you can tease the details from him if he is still a member.

You might also look at some of the Japanese scooter culture sites. They tend to be more show than go, but you never know. There is also a member here named Bernardo. He hasn't been on the site since August, but you can always send him a message. He says in one of his posts that he has a performance shop that did his work that offered him a turbocharger.
Search for the word "turbo" on this page:
https://www.silverwing600.com/t144-comprehensive-review-honda-fjs-600-abs-silver-wing



Dan
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MikeO
Site Admin
MikeO


Number of posts : 3798
Age : 74
Location : Seaham, Co Durham, UK
Points : 9484
Registration date : 2009-06-29

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13, 2012 5:49 am

I'd have thought the biggest problem with a turbocharger on a maxi would be the heat, setting aside all the other considerations.
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Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew


Number of posts : 4180
Location : York, North Yorkshire, England UK
Points : 9225
Registration date : 2010-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Buy a couple of self-adhesive chrome Turbo badges from eBay or an auto accessories shop and stick them alongside the Silver Wing badges.
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scooterboyz
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 25
Age : 55
Location : new haven, ct
Points : 4262
Registration date : 2012-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Thanks dspevack, will do the research and continue saving :}
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
rjdoles


Number of posts : 140
Age : 76
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 4444
Registration date : 2012-09-24

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 5:34 pm

A lot of years ago, I installed a turbocharger on a 6 cylinder standard shift car. I read everything that I could find about turbocharging and I just wanted to see if I could do it.

My dad had a metalworking shop which I used to manufacturer an intake manifold, exhaust manifold, exhaust system, alcohol injection and modify the ignition system. After a summer of tuning and parts configuring, the car ran great.

The drag strip times went from 18.60 seconds at 72 mph to 13.90 at 90 mph. According to those trap speeds for a 2600 lb vehicle, the engine went from producing 75 rear wheel hp to a little over 150 rear wheel hp.

In the next year, I went through too many clutches and transmissions to count. I finally modified the clutch housing to accept the heavy duty clutch and transmission from a Corvette. This mod solved the slipping clutch problem but shortly after I completed those mods, I broke an axle followed the next week by the differential. I modified and installed a larger differential with sure-grip to solve that problem. With that problem behind me, I started breaking motor mounts.

It was a lot of fun and I don't regret doing it but a sane person would say that it was an incredible waste of time and money. I sacrificed reliablility for performance.

The swing is a belt driven scooter which would be my first concern and then there would be the serious space constraints to get the hardware under the tupperware.

Unless you are prepared to do a lot more repair and maintenance and a lot less riding on your swing, I would seriously give this a lot of thought before you proceed.

Ride safe!
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rodenbach
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
rodenbach


Number of posts : 321
Age : 67
Location : Belgium
Points : 4669
Registration date : 2012-08-30

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 6:31 am

Just out of memory - please correct me if I'm wrong.

I remember reading some 10-12 years ago that a rubber belt CVT can take up to about 50 HP.

To deal with more power, manufacturers have came up with a metal 'belt' that pushes instead of pulling.
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 59
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 8028
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: S'wing turbo   S'wing turbo I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 7:36 am

That may have been true....10-12 years ago.
But I also remember the Suzuki Gstrider introduced in 2003.
S'wing turbo Suzuki-gstrider
Supposedly a cvt with a 916cc engine.
Here is a video of some cool futuristic bikes if anyone is interested.

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