Brights or low beams in daytime.

What do you guys and gals ride with during the day? I've always used my brights since I started riding for the extra hope of visibility of other drivers. Am I alone in this? I think it might be illegal to run your brights, but I figure I am not gonna blind anyone glancing at my headlight during a normal sunny day. Of course it it is overcast or nearing dusk I will switch down to my low beams. Basically when I can notice street signs (speed limit) reflecting back at me I switch down to lows.

Most of my riding is in town and I use the low beams. I never really considered using the high beams during the day and seldom at night, unless I'm out of town.

I use high beam on bright days but drop to dipped beam when I am certain the opposing traffic has spotted me.

I usually get lambasted by forum users for this technique but I use it sensible taking other road users into account and I am still here today so I will carry on with the practice.

Anything thats gets MY presence seen is a + in my book.

I use modulator high beam during daytime and before that high beams. A good way to see how visible you are during bright days is to take some pictures of bike at a distance of hundred feet from four feet off ground and see with one you look more visible you can be surprised with results.

Eldon totally agree. That is what put me onto the technique.

Mentioned it when doing some riding training with the police. And whilst they wouldn't state it was legal they did say if it made you more visible in bright conditions it was good.

That said. You have to appreciate other road users. Don't ride up behind the car in front with headlights on main beam. You will only annoy them, As I said above, with traffic approaching you, as soon as you think they can see you dip the lights. Resume main beam once clear of other traffic.

Has to be used sensibly or else you will annoy fellow road users and give riders a bad name in general.

Rude, except to turn the beam up when you need to be noticed----using your judgement.

I hate to be follwed by HD idiots in the US with their "road light" or Passin lights on----same for modulators, usually some idiot in white tennis shoes, etc. Riding skill has a lot to do with survival----kinda lacking in US.

Best deal ride like the others are deaf/dumb blind/ or in the case of the south where I live now...stupid---maybe on something. Stay out of their way.

Think white helmets/hi-vis jackets ok.

John, nothing 'rude' about wanting to be seen.

On overcast darkened days, dipped beam is more than sufficient, seriously bright, sun dazzling days, being seen is paramount, if it means 'high' beam then so be it.

As soon as you are seen - dipped beam. Not 'rude' - sensible!

Maybe a little out of context---I meant riding on high beam all the time=rude. Do anything for the moment to be seen and of course back to low beam. Remembering one more things--especially in US, people in cars view you as no threat to them(unless you look like cop). Bikes are really not planned or considered in the normal traffic flow in the US as they are in the UK/Japan/Korea/Cont. Europe, etc.

john grinsel wrote:

Rude, except to turn the beam up when you need to be noticed----using your judgement.

I hate to be follwed by HD idiots in the US with their "road light" or Passin lights on----same for modulators, usually some idiot in white tennis shoes, etc. Riding skill has a lot to do with survival----kinda lacking in US.

Thanks for insulting an entire country. That's probably not out of bounds.

john grinsel wrote:

Best deal ride like the others are deaf/dumb blind/ or in the case of the south where I live now...stupid---maybe on something. Stay out of their way.

I live in the south, is that comment directed at me or everyone who lives in the south (yourself included)? Kind of tired of the constant insults about a region as if all who live in that region are idiots or now you've added on drugs. You do realize you can move - so why do you stay?

john grinsel wrote:

Think white helmets/hi-vis jackets ok.

Hey forum owner - the first bullet in the sign on agreement reads:
Aggressive or slanderous messages, as well as personal insults and critics, the coarseness and vulgarities, and more generally any message contravening the French laws are prohibited.

I added the emphasis, but I'd ask that you enforce your rules. And if you don't mind could you tell us which French laws apply to us.

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but the rules are the rules.

My advice is, ride on low beam at all times during the day. Then if you want to bring some additional attention to yourself flash (long flash) your main beams (brights), once or multiple times, use your discretion.
I very rarely short flash my main beam as in the UK that is normally a sign for the other person to have the right of way, in France flashing your lights means I am here and I'm not stopping. (Or there is a Police radar trap nearby).
Lights on main beam can be just as blinding / distracting during the day as at night, especially in your mirrors.

Go for a ride with a group of other riders and see how long is before you get signalled / asked to put your lights onto low beam.

Cheers,

tarmacburner2 wrote:

Go for a ride with a group of other riders and see how long is before you get signalled / asked to put your lights onto low beam.

Cheers,

My bold, that is the point I am making.

As soon as you are seen go to dipped beam. Used sensibly, they can be a tool to your arsenal of staying alive. Obviously there are the riders who will keep them on high beam no matter what.

As for flashing your light, long or short, they can misconstrued if using them to indicate something/anything!

MikeO wrote:

'Hey forum owner' is unlikely to attract his attention at the moment but I've noted your comments, Dale.

Moderator

Mike,

Thank you.

By the way that entire sentence(?) I quoted is ambiguous and poorly constructed. And, is almost written in a way as to encourage what it seems (to me) the author is trying to discourage.

Understood.
BTW are you really only 25?

MikeO wrote:

BTW are you really only 25?

Pasted from here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070289

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.
111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

So I'm as guilty as the next man for using flashing headlights incorrectly.

114
You MUST NOT
use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
[Law RVLR reg 27]
Driving in adverse weather conditions (226-237)
115
You should also
use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen
keep your headlights dipped when overtaking until you are level with the other vehicle and then change to main beam if necessary, unless this would dazzle oncoming road users
slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights

When it states 'MUST NOT' means it is an offence and you can be prosecuted. (Added for non UK members who may not be aware of this).

Cheers,

You quote rule 114.

Please re-read my posts.

I think I say dip headlights when seen by other road users. (Several times)

I forget the number of times I have had on coming cars drift into my lane when they are approaching me. It's not as if the Wings 55 watt bulbs are the brightest on the planet. The new HID system on the other hand!!!!!

Waspie,

My comments weren't aimed at you. I was just reiterating what it states in the Highway Code. (Something that you agree to abide by when you have passed a driving test - the examiner doesn't tell you that bit when he asks you to sign his document after successfully passing the test!) (or 'her' for the politically correct amongst us)

Cheers,

We could fly off at a tangent here but will simply say I will continue as I am.

Tangent = Mobile phones, smoking, dropping litter from moving vehicles and so on and so forth.

Highway code is fine and dandy if even a few 'qualified' drivers obeyed it even just a bit of it!!!!!

I sometimes wonder if some drivers have actually read it.

I bet a lot of horse riders don't even know that it applies to them, perhaps they should give a free copy of it in a future edition of 'Horse & Hounds'

Toodle Pip Ol' Bean.

Cheers,

I use a headlight modulator (legal here). I think concerns about annoying other drivers are overblown - seeing an SUV or sportscar annoys some drivers after all, but I recognize they are still controversial. To each their own, but it works for me. I am fine with someone not going this route too - it is your choice on your safety!

As for brights in day, they don't impact other drivers like they do at night since people's pupils are smaller in the day. Not saying they are good or bad, but am saying that my light sensitive eyes don't get blinded or distracted by brights during the day.

I ride around on Low Beam isn't that the way it's supposed to be, start the engine and the lights come on, ride away. High Beam has that blue warning light on the dash, to me that's saying use when necessary then go back on Low Beam. I don't like high beams dazzling me from oncoming vehicles, or the distraction and annoyance of having them in my mirrors, and it's simple road courtesy not to annoy others with your High beam.

High Beam obviously lights up the road ahead better at night, but I still use Low and switch to High only when needed. I wouldn't fit a headlight modulator even if they were legal in the UK, and and fitting extra lights to me isn't worth the expense. Let's face it you can pretty much fit whatever lighting devices you like in the US and try and convince yourself and others it's all in the name of safety. The LED pilots bulbs I fitted were a waste of time for all the difference they make, that is when they both decide to work.

I've just returned from Italy, it's literally scooter heaven and I've looked at hundreds of them, big wheel, small wheel, two wheeled, three wheeled etc. I don't think I spotted one sporting the extra sets of lights, modulators, or those bolt on LED flashing rear lights that are a favourite on here. Whether riders were on High or Low beam all the time I've no idea, but we could all learn a few things from the Italians about scooter riding.

Meldrew this is one thing that keep croping up from time to time, you and i agree about Headlights, and usually about riding habits in general, we have both been riding for decades so we must be doing something right, if others disagree, let them continue as they are and hope they don't come anywhere near us

Meldrew and Limey,
I agree with both of you, why antagonise other roads users unnecessarily.
The only extra lights I've got are LED running/brake lights in the top box - I figure that way traffic behind me will see when I'm braking.

Graham.

I've been considering using my high beams during the day, but for a wholly other reason. I was thinking the other day, I don't ride a great deal at night and my lights are on all the time, perhaps I should burn the high beam filament more so that I wont have to replace the lamp as fast. It's gonna go out eventually. And who really cares if you have your high beam on during the day anyhow?

There is a reason the Silver Wing is sold all around the world the way it is, without any modulators or extra lights, all Gov'ts have certified the machine to be safe the way it is. Best way to be safe is to be aware of other drivers, wear your helmet and Hi-Viz protective gear. Ride Safe.

smorkle wrote:

I've been considering using my high beams during the day, but for a wholly other reason. I was thinking the other day, I don't ride a great deal at night and my lights are on all the time, perhaps I should burn the high beam filament more so that I wont have to replace the lamp as fast. It's gonna go out eventually. And who really cares if you have your high beam on during the day anyhow?

You might if everyone had the same idea as you to contend with constant dazzle from high beams in your mirrors all day long. Or if every oncoming vehicle was giving your eyes a dose of high intensity bright white light, and as your eyes tried to adjust you got another, and another etc.

But hey, there's high beam filaments to use up here, what's the problem.

smorkle wrote:

And who really cares if you have your high beam on during the day anyhow?

Try riding on main beam and you will soon find out!

As I said above, the idea is to use them to be seen. As soon as you are seen, return to dipped beam.

I use my main beam in the day time predominantly when the sun is low and behind me and I am 'invisible' to the oncoming traffic.

Main beam in the day light has to be used sensibly or you will not endear yourself to other road users.

robert wrote:

There is a reason the Silver Wing is sold all around the world the way it is, without any modulators or extra lights, all Gov'ts have certified the machine to be safe the way it is. Best way to be safe is to be aware of other drivers, wear your helmet and Hi-Viz protective gear. Ride Safe.

If bikes and cars were perfect when they come out of the factory how is it that there is such a large 'aftermarket' market. How many people here have changed the windscreen? Very few people would say it was perfect. It is called manufacturing to a price.
ATTGAT and Hi-Viz - YES, YES, YES.

Cheers,

I have been riding over 40 + years, and the amount of times that drivers cut in front of me and return back the there lanes when they seen my high beams in there mirrors and on coming traffic .If I piss other drivers off, that means they see me and that is a good thing. I have prevented getting into a accident . Only one hour before dark that I dip down in HW driving and in town. It may be rude,but I live to ride another day.

This will shock a lot of you but the drivers manual for Motorcycles in Iowa states that in daylight hours you should ride with bright lights on.

This will shock a lot of you but the drivers manual for Motorcycles in Iowa states that in daylight hours you should ride with bright lights on.

tinman wrote:

I have been riding over 40 + years, and the amount of times that drivers cut in front of me and return back the there lanes when they seen my high beams in there mirrors and on coming traffic .If I piss other drivers off, that means they see me and that is a good thing. I have prevented getting into a accident . Only one hour before dark that I dip down in HW driving and in town. It may be rude,but I live to ride another day.

+1,I agree.

Headlight(s)
The best way to help others see
your motorcycle is to keep the
headlight(s) on—at all times
(although motorcycles sold in the
U.S. since 1978 automatically have
the headlights on when running.)
Studies show that, during the day, a
motorcycle with its light(s) on is twice
as likely to be noticed. Use of the
high beam during the day increases
the likelihood that oncoming drivers
will see you. Use low beam at night,
in inclement weather and when
meeting and following other traffic




^Right out of the Wisconsin guidebook. No wonder that was the way I was taught to ride since day one.

So we all are riding lights on, some on High beam and others on Low beam, isn't that sufficient for daytime riding. Not for some it seems, they also need the extra fairy lights at the front, a headlight modulator pulsing away, and the fancy LED rear light going through it's repertoire every time they apply the brakes or indicators.

I use high beams in daytime as needed per driving conditions, traffic density, [bright or cloudy] road type (interstate, city, urban, rural), time of day[rush hour or not]. I started riding in 1964 on a Honda 90 [one year illegal, I was big for my age] and have never had a [knock on wood] road accident. What ever kind of light I think need to be seen is what I use.

I don't think headlight modulators replace ATGATT or hi-viz personally, anymore than a bright jacket replaces the need for training and practice. We all (hopefully) evaluate the technology and techniques available to make us safe riders and make our decisions based on our understanding of the benefits, costs, and risks of each.

As for annoyance - I continue to use my modulator because I've had cage drivers (and experienced it myself prior to riding when seeing others' modulators) that let me know my modulator helped them see me and be safe around me. I've only seen internet forum people that have told me it annoys, dazzles, or blinds them (if legal lighting on an another vehicle makes you unsafe, PLEASE stay off the road!). But each their own. I try to go with objective data whenever possible - and my subjective experiences are not likely any more valid than someone who disagree's with me's subjective experience.

Sadly, there's not a lot of objective data on scooter safety - it's all conjecture. The best we have to go by is the Hurt report, which is over 30 years old, only looked at urban riding, ignored unreported accidents, defined high-visibility clothing as almost anything other than a flat black leather jacket, and looked at headlight usage where daytime headlight usage was a novelty. I think Hurt would make a lot of different calls today if he studied highways, unreported accidents, and today's motorcycle lighting, but that's conjecture. Heck, we don't even know if our large scoots are over or under represented in accidents (I have my suspicions, but that, too, is just conjecture).

It's hard to expect people to agree when it's just opinion. But it's amazing how sure some people are about their opinion! Ride safe (whatever that means for you).

It's fine saying you've been riding since the 1960's or so, but no one rode with their lights on in the daytime back then. You weren't compelled to wear helmets, have formal training, no one wore ATGATT and a lot of what was available was barely fit for purpose, and hi-viz or reflective gear had yet to evolve.

I use only high beams during the day - no one has ever indicated that my high beams have annoyed them during the day - or at night for that matter. (One exception to this rule is riding during the day with groups - when I turn my beam on low - this at the request of one group leader who pointed out that he is blinded by high beams in the group so as to make the tail rider signals and other riders difficult to see.)

Even so, with my high beams on, I have had close calls with opposing traffic vehicles making left turns into my lane and right side cross traffic pulling into my lane. I have a High-Vis YELLOW vest that helps some and I plan to get a more visible helmet (thinking red as compared to my gray one). Also have plans to add a more visible front light system.

I find most vehicles very respectful of MC riders - but clearly they don't always see us!

Dimond wrote:

I find most vehicles very respectful of MC riders - but clearly they don't always see us!

Don't you think that's because cars in North America are usually far larger than European models, and will have more blind spots or large door pillars obscuring the drivers vision. Added to that you may be riding in a blind spot area behind a car and the driver is unaware you've come up behind him.

Some comments-----most quoted state guide books contains old guidance or stuff thrown in by people who don't ride.

Yes, other people have to see you---low beam,white helmet, high Vis MIGHT help but avoiding them is up to you and your skill---the delivery riders in Korea seem to have no trouble as do the little girls on 50cc scooters in Japan...but boy do they have skill.

As high miles rider and long time rider I think I have to reply on my sense/experience/skill to keep the wheels on the ground----rather than high beams.

Skill in US on bikes can be low---Thanks MSF----MSF courses supported by industry and geared to selling bikes----otherwise they would be harder.
My MSF Instructor card is dated 1974-----they teach parking lot techniques----real world is on the street.------New study now being conducted by U in Virginia( VT?) and MSF----of course with MSF in picture, results will be slanted.

As DOD Safety Manager I had experience retraining already US licensed and Military licensed riders after Gen BB Bell's pilot killed himself on bike. It is amazing, assembled, how many of these "experienced/legal riders" had really low skill levels and fell all over themselves. Hope my skilled/real rider German Instructors got their atttention and some skills settled in.

Bottom Line: lights on may help....but skill/attitude works better. One other problem with educating riders today is some cannot even drive a stick shift car------others bring horrible car habits-----like sticking in the passing lane--watch HD riders do this....with their brights on and road lite blazing...left lane all the way----guess they feel good as their bikes really won't go that fast.....but they got the lane or don't know any better....and this is the way the drive their pickups.

I wonder if the fact that many cars are built with dipping interior mirrors is an acknowledgement that main-beam or generally badly-adjusted headlights do pose a problem which has to be addressed.

Being a lifetime member [South Carolina USA, born, raised, never lived anywhere else] of the "stupid" culture, I learned early on I would need to get some "smarts" if I wanted to survive in this world. The dealer who sold Hondas told us to always ride with our lights on so I have [I considered him "smart" so I did what he said] . It was one position up from normal if I remember correctly. He didn't have helmets but suggested that we ride to Greenville, S.C. 35 miles away to purchase one. So a buddy of mine who had a Honda 50 made the trip @ 45 m.p.h. on the Interstate, watching our rearview mirrors intently..... OOPS!!!! Didn't intend to hijack the thread. Some comments just brought back some wonderful memories.

Dimond wrote:

I use only high beams during the day - no one has ever indicated that my high beams have annoyed them during the day - or at night for that matter. (One exception to this rule is riding during the day with groups - when I turn my beam on low - this at the request of one group leader who pointed out that he is blinded by high beams in the group so as to make the tail rider signals and other riders difficult to see.)

Even so, with my high beams on, I have had close calls with opposing traffic vehicles making left turns into my lane and right side cross traffic pulling into my lane. I have a High-Vis YELLOW vest that helps some and I plan to get a more visible helmet (thinking red as compared to my gray one). Also have plans to add a more visible front light system.

I find most vehicles very respectful of MC riders - but clearly they don't always see us!

If you want a helmet that can be seen try either white or a hi-viz yellow one.

Cheers,