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 Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?

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ScootDude
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PostSubject: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 3:42 pm

Hi,

I'm stuck between these two. I want something suitable for the motorway (I'm in the UK) but looking at the Burgman 400, whilst it seems to tick all the boxes, it seems to run close to the edge at 70-80 which I'm not a big fan of.

I've looked at the Kymco XCiting 500i and the Downtown 300i, but I kept coming back to the Burgman. The Silverwing seems to be a nice compromise between the two Burgman 400 and 650, whilst not being pushed at higher speeds.

Is the SW600 worth the extra $$$ over the 400? To me, just from a performance perspective, it is. I'd just like to confirm this is the case.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 3:54 pm

Hi and welcome Scootdude.

Don't know where you get your info from but I never found the Burgman 400 running near the edge, 70-80, (I assume you mean mph).

My older K4 would run 2 up 80+ with no problem. The newer 400 Burgman being a dedicated 400cc rather than the older 385cc which I had should perform even better.

That said, the Silver Wing is a superb machine.

The only person able to make the final choice is you. They each have their own merits and also their own downsides but my plus maybe your negative point!!!!

Best thing is to get yourself a ride on each and sort it out from there. Good luck and good hunting. I enjoyed researching my next ride, get stuck into the various forums and see what riders are whining about vs what they are praising.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 3:59 pm

ScootDude wrote:
Hi,

I'm stuck between these two. I want something suitable for the motorway (I'm in the UK) but looking at the Burgman 400, whilst it seems to tick all the boxes, it seems to run close to the edge at 70-80 which I'm not a big fan of.

I've looked at the Kymco XCiting 500i and the Downtown 300i, but I kept coming back to the Burgman. The Silverwing seems to be a nice compromise between the two Burgman 400 and 650, whilst not being pushed at higher speeds.

Is the SW600 worth the extra $$$ over the 400? To me, just from a performance perspective, it is. I'd just like to confirm this is the case.


Hello mate,

It seems a bit weird you calling yourself ScootDude when you don't have much of an idea about what you from a maxi scooter apart from the ability to go on motorways. Any one of the scooters on your list can handle our motorways. It's your money you're spending so doing a bit of legwork round showrooms to look at the scooters you're interested in, and maybe getting a demo ride or two would give you more idea than asking on a forum.

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viclavigne
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 6:18 pm

The Burgman 400 should be a good machine, but if you do your own maintenance you may get a little aggravated. You have to pull off more of the body panels to do what I consider routine maintenance.

Kymo 500 - I have owned a Kymo 250, and if the other models are similiar I will just say that suspension is rough. I didn't mind mine for short rides, but didn't want to take it on longer rides. And the maintenance schedule for Kymco's seems to be more frequent than other models.

The Silverwing compares very favorably to the Burgman 650, but the big Burgman also suffers from he same aggravations with maintenance. And changing the transmission oil was really a chore - I know, owned one for a while.

The only other scooter I'd recommend that you didn't would be the Yamaha Majesty. Not as powerful as the Silverwing or big Burman, but good handling and nice suspension.

Vic
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ScootDude
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 6:22 pm

Meldrew: meh - it's a forum name. Smile As you read already, I'd be learning on whatever I settle with so test riding isn't an option unfortunately (at least this time around).

Waspie: Regarding handling motorways - it wasn't that the 400 couldn't do it, but rather how hard it had to be driven to get there? Two-up would obviously be harder on it than riding single and lightly loaded, so what kind of RPM were you seeing to accelerate to and maintain that speed typically? From videos I could find, it seemed to need to run most of the way to red line which I'm never happy about. Given most of my driving will be at 60/70 it makes more sense to me to go for something a bit bigger instead of running close to the limit all the time. The 600 seemed to have ample power available, which should translate to longer life on the parts.

I also read that people found the 400 to be more prone to side-winds compared to the 600/650. How did you find it?

Vic: I looked at the Majesty but the storage seemed a bit small. I had been looking at the TMAX but it too had that problem (as well as being more expensive than any of the others). I'm not looking for raw performance.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 6:54 pm

Hello Scootdude,

I actually own both and as you can see from my profile I'm in the UK.

Difficult to compare the two machines as my Silverwing has numerous bits bolted onto it, JCosta Variator, Hyperpro Front Springs, Ohlin Shockers, Power Commander, K&N FIlter , Arrow Exhaust, so not standard by any means. If you are going to be doing a lot of motorway riding then the Silverwing is the one to go for (IMHO). The extra 200cc makes all the difference to 70mph cruising. If one the other hand 'A' roads and twisties will be the norm then I find the lighter Burgman more fun, that is not to say the Silverwing can't handle the twisties. Two weeks in France (Auvergne region) proved that - the scoot was far better than the rider!
Bottom Line - the Silverwing (but change the screen and the variator).
Cheers,
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ucwinters
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 7:29 pm

Scootdude,

Had an '07 Burgman 400 and loved the scooter. Frequently rode it 2-up on the interstate w/ my wife and never felt I was w/o sufficient power. Had a Givi windscreen on it and had great air management. Still wondering why I sold it.
3 scooters later and I'm riding an '07 Silverwing - has more power, weighs more, Givi Airflow does OK w/ air management but not like the larger Givi that I had on the Burgman (of course I could put the same Givi on the 'wing). Fuel mileage worse than the Burgman but then it weighs more, 200 cc more displacement and I run at higher speeds.
Like the fact that the motor on the 'wing is mounted to the frame and not the swingarm on the Burgman.
Both are great scoots - just gotta find the one that moves your soul.
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viclavigne
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 7:37 pm

ScootDude wrote:
Meldrew: meh - it's a forum name. Smile
Vic: I looked at the Majesty but the storage seemed a bit small. I had been looking at the TMAX but it too had that problem (as well as being more expensive than any of the others). I'm not looking for raw performance.
I don't think the Majesty has that much less storage than the Burgman 400. Did you actually look at one? The storage goes all the way up under the passenger seat. The Burgman reportedly has a little more pep.

We all have our preferences when it comes to scooters, and if you haven't any experience riding one you may not really know what you like and don't like until you've had one for a while. Whatever you get, I recommend you buy used until you get some good driving experience and maybe decide if you want to change or not.

Vic
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Having both SilverWing and Burgman 400 from new. And now on 2nd Burgman 400. Apples and oranges comparison, maybe. SilverWing twin, sucks gas at high speeds, heavy, smooth but hard to work on. Burgman lighter, easier to work on, even at high revs easy on gas, lots of storage under seat----Then of course is the price difference, near$2000 US with ABS. Freeway/high speed highways(motorway) do not hurt it. But I think with 1200cc crankcase oil, frequent oil changes good idea Both are good Japanese screwed together, Are scooters and no sub for high performance motorcycle. Honda better parts service in US. Both require simple belt roller change at 15,000 miles or so.Wind/air management, maybe better on SilverWing with GIVI adjustable windshield/ GIVI racks and top boxes work fine.

I have had new TMAX, but consider Silverwing or Burgman 400 better for my use. I do about 25,000 miles a year from where I live now.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 25, 2012 2:11 am

tarmacburner2 wrote:
Difficult to compare the two machines as my Silverwing has numerous bits bolted onto it, JCosta Variator, Hyperpro Front Springs, Ohlin Shockers, Power Commander, K&N FIlter , Arrow Exhaust, so not standard by any means.

I remember your Silver Wing getting a bit of interest on a couple of UK forums when it was for sale on eBay because of all the extra kit added to it by the original owner, and it's very low mileage.

So you must have bought it from horobags on the Muppets forum who had it for a couple of months.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 25, 2012 6:27 am

If you're in the UK and are buying new, don't forget the new Piaggio X10 - it seems it might be quite good.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 25, 2012 2:07 pm

We have a SW and Burg 400 in the garage right now. Rode the K4 Burg 400 for 4 years then switch to a K5 SW 2 seasons ago.

The SW is slightly better for stability at high speeds and for the extra power when needed (usually not often). Fuel mielage is not great ~ 45 mpg.

Love the 400. It's almost as fast, can cruise at 125 km all day long, is lighter and better on fuel. Very easy to handle in parking lot situatinos and you can ride it hard (twisties etc.) and it responds very well ... better than the SW.

IMHO, both are equally capable for your needs. If you plan to do a fair amount of 2 up riding (more than 10%), I'd lean towards the SW. Otherwise, the 400 will serve your needs very well.

~ sonuvabug ~
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 25, 2012 8:29 pm

If you buy the Burgman 400, I'd recommend getting the 2007 or later version. Everything was redesigned on it, and I think you'll find the maintenance to be easy enough to do it yourself. I'm not a mechanic, but have managed to make do for about 60,000 miles.

The bike will easily do the speeds you're considering. If you invest $55 (or equivalent British pounds), you can install some Dr. Pulley Sliding weights. As they do on a Silverwing, they will drop your freeway rpms considerably, yet still deliver nice acceleration getting there.

At 70 mph indicated, my Burgman 400 is turning over about 5300 rpms...and gets mid-60s gas mileage.

There's a certain point where you can ask all you want of our opinions, but the proof is to get to a dealer or individual sale where you can sit on the bike, walk around it and kick the tires. Each bike has its own personality and one will appeal to you more than others.

FWIW, I would look more toward the Burgman 400 if you are considering the Majesty. The Burgman 400 gets the gas mileage of a 250, but with the power of the Majesty. The Majesty doesn't get that much better gas mileage than a Burgman 650 or the Silverwing. It's a good bike, but the design doesn't seem as up to date.

Chris
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ScootDude
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 26, 2012 11:26 am

@Daboo: thanks for the info regarding cruise RPM. I had already considered changing the pulleys after reading about it a lot (seems to be a fairly common after-market mod that people do).

If they did a Burgman 500 I think they might just kill their own market Razz but I haven't out-ruled anything until I buy. If I didn't do as much motorway driving as I do then I would get it, but I do enough that it is making me think maybe I should go a bit bigger. At this rate I might end up with two. Idea
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 26, 2012 11:51 am

There are always compromises in whatever bike you get. The Silverwing will give you more power...but at the expense of gas mileage. What's important to you?

I've ridden my 400 from a prison in the middle of Washington State and back over the mountain pass to Seattle. It is a 4-hour trip. http://binged.it/IehL8R The speed limit was 70 through much of that. When I crossed the Columbia River gorge at Vantage, I picked up some severe head and cross-winds. While I didn't have a lot of reserve power, I was able to maintain my speed at 70-75 mpg just fine and pace the traffic. I also got about 63 mpg on this stretch...and don't forget that besides the winds, I was going up a mountain pass.

Over on BurgmanUSA, if you do some looking, you'll find where one of the members has ridden his 400 from Austin, TX to Florida, to New Jersey and to his family's home in Lynden, WA. On that last trip, he did 1400 miles in one day on the final stretch into Austin.

I believe you'll find that a Burgman 400 will handle motorway speeds just fine. That does depend though on how much faster than the motorway speeds you want to go, and your tolerance for "performance awards". Wink

But...have you sat on one? You may find you hate it, that it doesn't fit your body. And you may find instead that the Silverwing or another bike, is more to your liking. I thought I'd buy a Majesty when I went to the 400 cc level based on magazine reviews. When I actually saw one and sat on it, I knew it wasn't for me. But others have gone the other way. It is all a personal fit issue and what gives you excitement when you walk out to get on it.

Chris
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 26, 2012 12:34 pm

ScootDude wrote:
If they did a Burgman 500 I think they might just kill their own market Razz but I haven't out-ruled anything until I buy. If I didn't do as much motorway driving as I do then I would get it, but I do enough that it is making me think maybe I should go a bit bigger. At this rate I might end up with two. Idea

Don't get carried away, you haven't obtained the licence to ride anything yet.
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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 26, 2012 12:56 pm

Meldrew wrote:
...Don't get carried away, you haven't obtained the licence to ride anything yet.
That's what I like about you...you get right down to the nitty-gritty. Laughing

Chris
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viclavigne
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Daboo wrote:
There are always compromises in whatever bike you get. The Silverwing will give you more power...but at the expense of gas mileage. What's important to you?
Chris
"What's important to you?" That's the question that should always be asked when your're thinking about getting any bike. I go through some mental gymnastics when I consider a bike: new vs used, expected cost, fuel efficiency, power and handling, and maintenance difficulty. The maintenance question may not matter if you only plan on sending it to the shop, but frequency of maintenance can put a big dent if the wallet if you do. All the scooters that were originally listed by the OP are good, and they all have their individual pros/cons. In the end it is a question of what you want to see in a bike and how comfortable you are on it.

Vic
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Old Limey
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27, 2012 1:00 pm

Scoot dude did you say you would be "learning on whatever you settled with". If you did, my advice would be to walk before you try to run.These are big bikes, not like the Vespa, Lambrettas, etc scooters you see around, and if you've never ridden before,you may not like it! Surprised Just out of interest how old are you.
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surlybiker58
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 27, 2012 3:51 pm


I also would not advise learning to ride on a Sliverwing if you've
never ridden a motorcycle before .
Too much power and two much weight if you don't know what you're
doing.

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Meldrew
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28, 2012 6:36 pm

Daboo wrote:
Over on BurgmanUSA, if you do some looking, you'll find where one of the members has ridden his 400 from Austin, TX to Florida, to New Jersey and to his family's home in Lynden, WA. On that last trip, he did 1400 miles in one day on the final stretch into Austin.

You know I find this 1400 miles in one day hard to believe, even if this lad had was able to ride non stop for the full 24 hours he would have had to averaged a speed of 58.33 mph.

If fuel and comfort stops took a total of 4 hours off that time, he'd have to average 70 mph to cover that distance.

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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28, 2012 7:52 pm

Meldrew, you don't know Mitch. He's young, competes nationally in wakeboard championships (i.e., he has one of those bodies we wish we had at his age) and just has more stamina than most of us do...and can do without sleep better than most of us can. His bike is equipped with a cruise control and nice backrest. He just got up to speed and sat back watching the miles go by.

There's no doubt in my mind that he did this. We rode together in the Seattle area on his way south. Each night, he checked in with me via email of where he was and what the ride was like.

A couple years ago, some of the B650 owners were trying to say that the 400 wasn't even safe to get on the freeway. Mitch quieted down all those people.

Chris
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 28, 2012 9:14 pm

LA to Austin is less than 1400 hundred miles, but it can all be done on Interstates. On those, if you aren't doing 70, your're getting run over. Out in the southwest, there are miles and miles of miles and miles. I wouldn't want to try it, but i believe it is doable. Getting back to Austin is a huge incentive. Maybe it was one riding period . Shoot, our John could do that before breakfast, if he stayed out of the bushes. Smile
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 29, 2012 11:26 am

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 29, 2012 12:16 pm

Scootdude,

You have mail.

Cheers,
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Meldrew
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 29, 2012 3:13 pm

Daboo wrote:
Meldrew, you don't know Mitch. He's young, competes nationally in wakeboard championships (i.e., he has one of those bodies we wish we had at his age) and just has more stamina than most of us do...and can do without sleep better than most of us can. His bike is equipped with a cruise control and nice backrest. He just got up to speed and sat back watching the miles go by.

I think I know who you mean, a tanned blonde haired surfer dude who has a few videos on YouTube, and not as I first thought, a grizzled old git in a faded Aerostitch suit with Iron Butt Association patches sewn on it.



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Daboo
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 29, 2012 10:28 pm

Yup, that's probably him. How he can stay still so long with so little padding on the rear, beats me.

I've only met him in person for a few minutes, but he has a personality that is all joy. You pick up on some of that, just by being around him.

Chris
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larryinseattle
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 7:45 am

I had an 03 Silverwing, sold it, bought an 06 400 B. Sold it. Went back to an 05 Silverwing.

Silverwing has more power and I believe more long term reliability. There are Honda dealers everywhere. Adjusting the valves on the 400 every 4,000 miles is a requirement. 4K goes by pretty fast.
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Waspie
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 9:27 am

Switching to pedantic mode!!! Smile

Burgman 400 series, service interval 3500 miles.

Silver Wing service interval 4000 miles.


I do agree that the mileage time on both machines flashes by.

If anyone doesn't do there own servicing then be prepared to part with some hard earned coin of the realm to pay for the service on either machine. Having all that expensive tupperware makes servicing all that more costly.
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Daboo
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 10:36 am

larryinseattle wrote:
I had an 03 Silverwing, sold it, bought an 06 400 B. Sold it. Went back to an 05 Silverwing.

Silverwing has more power and I believe more long term reliability. There are Honda dealers everywhere. Adjusting the valves on the 400 every 4,000 miles is a requirement. 4K goes by pretty fast.
One of the advantages in the 07 and on 400s over the older model, is the redesigned engine. The recommended interval now for checking the valve adjustment is 14500 miles. Many of us have waited till double that and still found no adjustment needed. For some people who don't put on a lot of mileage, they would never hit the point of needing to adjust their valves.

Chris
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larryinseattle
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 10:39 am

Daboo wrote:
larryinseattle wrote:
I had an 03 Silverwing, sold it, bought an 06 400 B. Sold it. Went back to an 05 Silverwing.

Silverwing has more power and I believe more long term reliability. There are Honda dealers everywhere. Adjusting the valves on the 400 every 4,000 miles is a requirement. 4K goes by pretty fast.
One of the advantages in the 07 and on 400s over the older model, is the redesigned engine. The recommended interval now for checking the valve adjustment is 14500 miles. Many of us have waited till double that and still found no adjustment needed. For some people who don't put on a lot of mileage, they would never hit the point of needing to adjust their valves.

Chris

good point.... I did not know if he was going to buy used or not. I always buy low mileage used bikes. My first Silverwing was 5 years old with 97 miles on it. He had a heart attack and never rode it.
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john grinsel
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 1:43 pm

One thing on comparisons for me=apples to apples, any comparison I make/would make is simply new to new. Newest Burgman 400 is not any maint. freak---both (SilverWing/Burgman 400) can be handled safely by not doing scheduled valve adjustment at the near 15,000 mile mark----but belts should be changed at factory reommended distance with OEM belt. Walking sucks.

New always worked better for me, my 15 Jan 2012 registered Burgman 400 now has over 5,000 miles---all ok, I think I will install Pirelli Diablo this week on both ends, balancing with RideOn, that has worked well for me in past. The OEM Bridgestones perform ok, wear a little funny--But I have had several rear Bridgestone failures on Reflex, one on Helix, flat on SilverWing (no fault of tire), threw out replaced with IRC. Diablos have been lurking under bench.

Burgman 400 is winning so far on my comparison because of much lower price, ABS and non-linked brakes and good fuel mileage----HOWEVER air management on SilverWing with GIVI adjustable windshield is much better than on Burgman 400----Next chapter on Burgman Windshield---I just ordered 7Jurock, standard height....it is wider and I hope the wind coming together behind will slap my ears less.------Now observation, both Burgman and SilverWing go very fast on open highway----so fast you might miss some of the joys of scootering
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Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400?   Silverwing 600 or Burgman 400? I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 30, 2012 2:25 pm

I like how John just cuts to the real issue..."walking sucks". Laughing

Chris
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