What's your favourite riding position?

Recently I've been trying a slightly different riding position and it has really helped with my cornering.

I've been riding with my feet all the way forward, ie at about 35 degrees pressed up against the front of the footwell. I've then been leaning back so my back is at an angle of maybe 75-80 degrees. This means my arms are more outstretched.

The downside is that over long distances my back is aching slightly as the back rest presses more into the small of my back (a 3rd party backrest may cure this). The upside is that corners feel much smoother and natural as my body seems to shift balance much easier making the whole process just feel 'right'. I should point out that I'm 6 foot 1.

I was just wondering if any other folks used this position or maybe something else?

My feet are on the bottom of the front vertical floorboard, but I lean forward in a "sport touring" posture.

My scooter has enough weight already on the rear wheel. Sitting straight up, or leaning back only adds to that. Most bikes handle better when there's more weight on the front and this adds to that.

Plus, it is more comfortable. The more upright position transfers all the jolts and bumps straight into the spine. It hurts. By leaning forward some, the rear lifts up and down, but there is not jolt to the spine. It simply tilts like a teeter-tooter up and down.

If you look at pictures of riders who race scooters, you will see them leaning forward too. If it didn't work, they wouldn't be doing it.

Chris

Well, seeing as I recently totaled my Swing I think my favorite riding position would be UPRIGHT WITH WHEELS DOWN!! But I do shift my position when I ride ... (rode) .... for longer distances, I would do as wingnprayer and lean back a bit with my feet stretched forward ... when that was tiring, I would sit upright, with my feet on the floorboards. Sometimes I would lean forward a bit so I could feel my turns betters ...

I like to be up on top of things, so i can control the action. read what you want into that!

Feet forward for me, ever since my Helix days and the Best Feet Forward MCC started my interest in maxi scooters. In fact I find it unnatural riding with my feet flat down on the floorboards. If I need to stretch or break wind, it's easy to lift both butt cheeks off the seat for a few seconds in the FF position.

Where is Gene (Skiwoods) when you need him?


My lips are seaMMMMphhh mmmm PPPhh sealed! Ahhsay "Sealed that is,boy"! SEALED!

Meldrew wrote:

Feet forward for me, ever since my Helix days and the Best Feet Forward MCC started my interest in maxi scooters. In fact I find it unnatural riding with my feet flat down on the floorboards. If I need to stretch or break wind, it's easy to lift both butt cheeks off the seat for a few seconds in the FF position.

With Meldrew on this. Including the lifting butt cheeks!

Feet FLAT on the deck. I like to do alot of high speed riding and in order to corner you need to crouch forward as others have observed. This is in order to weight the front wheel.

I like to use the restroom BEFORE I take a ride, not during.

x

Feet Forward for max. control. Feet and legs impportant to control. Press right with foot go right, etc

Varies, I try feet all way forward but having long legs they don't really stretch much, that seems to be the more relaxed position. If I want to do a little faster paced roads with lots of curves I prefer my feet more toward the back, kind of flat on the boards.

I found also the the seat kind of slope toward the front a bit, so that make me change position a few times while riding.

Usually flat on the boards, particularly for city riding where you're doing a lot of stop and go, easier to put my feet down quickly. Also I feel like I have a bit better control and I'm more alert - strictly psychological I'm sure. On longer rides with no stops, on I think it's a good idea to change position every so often so I move my feet forward from time to time.

Chris

donkeyhater wrote:

I like to use the restroom BEFORE I take a ride, not during.

I'm sure you do, but what's that got to do with your preferred riding position?

cjuzda wrote:

Usually flat on the boards, particularly for city riding where you're doing a lot of stop and go, easier to put my feet down quickly. Also I feel like I have a bit better control and I'm more alert - strictly psychological I'm sure. On longer rides with no stops, on I think it's a good idea to change position every so often so I move my feet forward from time to time.

Chris

The truth is that there is more control when having the feet rearward and planted on the boards. It is easier to move your body and make the bike go where you want it. When sitting with the feet all the way forward, it's more relaxed and harder to flog the bike left or right. All relatively speaking of course since the Silverwing is not a race bike or heavy bike.

But a slouched position with feet forward gives a little less control in case of emergency.

I think that's why I like to move around, there are times when you can cruise in a relaxed way and when it's best to be ready for anything...

Just because your feet are positioned forward, does not necessarily mean you are relaxed.

I often brace my lower half of the body between the forward portion of the footrest and my rear against the butt-rest. It is the closest thing to gripping the fuel tank with your knees on a motorcycle.

Chris

Daboo wrote:

Just because your feet are positioned forward, does not necessarily mean you are relaxed.

I often brace my lower half of the body between the forward portion of the footrest and my rear against the butt-rest. It is the closest thing to gripping the fuel tank with your knees on a motorcycle.

I can only speak for myself but I've rode FF for over 15 years and it works for me, I'm not on a motorcycle either, so the only time I think about the fuel tank is when it needs filling.

That's what I meant by flat on the boards- My feet are usually directly lined up under my knees, which gives the best contact with the board and the most leverage at the same time.

carlosw wrote:

cjuzda wrote:

Usually flat on the boards, particularly for city riding where you're doing a lot of stop and go, easier to put my feet down quickly. Also I feel like I have a bit better control and I'm more alert - strictly psychological I'm sure. On longer rides with no stops, on I think it's a good idea to change position every so often so I move my feet forward from time to time.

Chris

The truth is that there is more control when having the feet rearward and planted on the boards. It is easier to move your body and make the bike go where you want it. When sitting with the feet all the way forward, it's more relaxed and harder to flog the bike left or right. All relatively speaking of course since the Silverwing is not a race bike or heavy bike.

But a slouched position with feet forward gives a little less control in case of emergency.

I think that's why I like to move around, there are times when you can cruise in a relaxed way and when it's best to be ready for anything...

Daboo wrote:

Just because your feet are positioned forward, does not necessarily mean you are relaxed.

I often brace my lower half of the body between the forward portion of the footrest and my rear against the butt-rest. It is the closest thing to gripping the fuel tank with your knees on a motorcycle.

Chris

Surely different people have different bodies, different sizes and also different feelings about it. I too tried to press my feet to the forward sloped part of the board but since I have long legs, they sit at almost 90 degrees and so it does not really work for me. When I put them forward like that they tend to be kind of relaxed. Since I also have long arms I end up being kind of slouched back.

For someone with shorter arms and shorter legs maybe it works better to brace the bike putting pressure with the feet to the forward part of the floor board and the butt rest.
Also with shorter arms one tends to be bent forward more.

I am not height challenged...I just fit comfortably in economy class seats on airlines. So yes, I fit the description you have of short arms and short legs.

I'd never really thought about what it would be like with the longer arms and legs...I just assumed you could move the butt rest back to get the distance needed, but perhaps not. Thanks for the perspective.

Chris

Daboo wrote:

I am not height challenged...I just fit comfortably in economy class seats on airlines. So yes, I fit the description you have of short arms and short legs.

I'd never really thought about what it would be like with the longer arms and legs...I just assumed you could move the butt rest back to get the distance needed, but perhaps not. Thanks for the perspective.

Chris

Well I did move the butt rest all the way to the back, but I feel I would need another couple of inches to be really comfortable. The seat itself could be an inch or so higher and maybe sloped a little backward, at least this is what I feel would be best to make my body more comfortable. I am not huge but at 6'2" and 240 pounds I am not small.

Despite the feeling of being a little cramped on it I love the Silverwing and I think it is the most confidence inspiring bike I have ridden other then a moped. Even the Vespa I used to have while it was great, it tended to get really light on the back during bracking and I find that the linked brakes on the Silverwing are just great. I believe that they are similar to what Moto Guzzi has been doing for years in terms of linking one brake with the front and rear disks. Short of ABS I feel these are some of the most secure set up I have used.

Of course this is my opinion based on my personal experience and for me moving my body position and feet position is kind of normal while riding around on this bike and I don't mind it really. I am having a lot of fun with this Silverwing.

Meldrew wrote:

donkeyhater wrote:

I like to use the restroom BEFORE I take a ride, not during.

I'm sure you do, but what's that got to do with your preferred riding position?

Unlike some of the folks across the water, I dont like squirming around on the seat in order push air around a turd.

I prefer to drop the food babies off at the pool so that I can be serious about my riding. I am more of a high speed rider so lifting my ass in order to flatulate could put me off the road in an instant.

So that's what it has to do with my preferred riding position. Scroll up, wake up, and pay attention.

donkeyhater wrote:

I am more of a high speed rider so lifting my ass in order to flatulate could put me off the road in an instant.

So that's what it has to do with my preferred riding position. Scroll up, wake up, and pay attention.

I'm sure you're a legend in your own mind, but you come across as having more hot air and wind than anything I can muster lifting my ass off the seat for a second.

At your age, Mildew, I would bet $ that mustering up anything for a second is a challenge.

After all the farkling on your Silverwing is done I'd lay odds you are still just a keyboard rider.

Name your odds, donkeyhater.

Why don't we hear of Donkeyhater on the tracks of the world? :rolling

donkeyhater wrote:

At your age, Mildew, I would bet $ that mustering up anything for a second is a challenge.

After all the farkling on your Silverwing is done I'd lay odds you are still just a keyboard rider.

What's my age got to do with anything, at least you know my age, where I am, I introduced myself to the Forum on joining, have contributed to a variety of topics, you've some idea about my Silver Wing and the kit on it, and yeah I'm really into farkling, I've got a mud flap made from a piece of plant pot.

All anyone knows about you is that you've been a tyre fitter, have a chip on your shoulder, and a compulsory pre-ride dump!

Folks - play nice. Stick to the topic and stop the slap fight.

Thanks, Dale.

Chris

Scheesh! Who'dathunk that a topic as benign as preferred riding position would elicit such a barrage. For me, my preferred riding position depends on the type of riding. If I am riding aggressively I try to put more weight on the front wheel by tucking me feet as far back on the foot rests as they can go and leaning forward into the dash. In traffic I have one foot forward and one back. On a long cruise I shift from feet forward to feet back to one forward and one back to leaning back to leaning forward. This is one of the greatest advantages of the Swing. You can try many different positions to keep from getting too tired or sore.

I change my riding position based on the riding I do, mood and joint pain. That is one of the highly attractive parts about owning a Swing or maxi scooter. Those long continuous floor boards give you lots of room to dance.

On the highway I end up leaning slightly forward above 65 mph - it puts my helmet in less turbulent air. Legs go forward against the front floorboards unless I really want to get into a racing form. Then they go back. Sometimes the lean forward is with back straight, but often I slouch as it keeps my arms straighter. Either way it's to keep my head down behind the windshield.

At lower highway speeds or country roads I might sit up very straight, even stretching to look over the tall Givi. For parking lot riding the legs go straight down as if I was in a chair.

For rough roads at low speed I put my feet almost straight below me on the edge of the floor board cutout. Lets me stand a tiny bit.

And for everything there is an exception - one leg forward the other back, then switch etc. all based on how my joints feel at the moment and what feels balanced.

Oh, at high speed on the highway, I make like a shy girl and bring my knees together - gets the knees out of the cold wind. Legs forward keeps the knees and shins warmer but my butt and outer thighs gets colder air. Feed further back cools the shins and knees and protects the butt.

One thing I can't do is lean way back - my arms are not long enough.

john grinsel wrote:

Feet Forward for max. control. Feet and legs impportant to control. Press right with foot go right, etc

Very strange. I have never used my feet to control the Swing. I steer one of two ways - with my butt or with my hands.

I've been getting away from steering with my butt as it is much harder at high speed. Works OK at low speed but it is still hard to counter lean if I use that to steer the bike. When I used to go into a curve using butt steering I found it hard to get the bike to lean enough and making the turn often felt like I was fighting the bike.

It took a while but I finally discovered what my safety class instructors meant by counter-steering. At above about 25 mph I push forward on the left handlebar to turn left. The bike leans left and turns left. Weird but it works and makes it very easy turn, swerve etc. Only a little bit causes a lot of reaction so if you are not aware of doing it in the past be careful.

Below a certain speed the counter-steering does not work that well and simply pointing the wheel where I want to go is what works. Around 20 mph butt steering still seems to work and can be fun.

One result of counter-steering is that I am less afraid to lean my bike in turns. I also use counter balancing more often. My feet simply go where it's comfortable.

If nothing else this thread has proved how versatile the 'Wing' can be and the different ways of maneuvering it around.

Learned a lot. albeit I doubt I will use any of the techniques as I am quite comfortable with my own style of riding!!

The Scootist wrote:

For me, my preferred riding position depends on the type of riding. If I am riding aggressively I try to put more weight on the front wheel by tucking me feet as far back on the foot rests as they can go and leaning forward into the dash. In traffic I have one foot forward and one back. On a long cruise I shift from feet forward to feet back to one forward and one back to leaning back to leaning forward. This is one of the greatest advantages of the Swing. You can try many different positions to keep from getting too tired or sore.

Exactly the style(s) I use/was trying to get across

Actually you and John are both counter steering, whether you think you are steering with your butt or John thinks he is steering with his feet. You are both shifting your weight to initiate a lean AND moving the handle bars with your hands whether you feel like that is the case or not. If that was not the case you would both either keep going in a straight line and/or just fall over whils still traveling in a straight line. Ther is an excellen description of this in David Hough's book, "Proficient Motorcycling", an excellent book that many should read. What you have discovered and are now doing is "concious" push steering with your hands as oppposed to unconcious push steering.

Ishkatan wrote:

john grinsel wrote:

Feet Forward for max. control. Feet and legs impportant to control. Press right with foot go right, etc

Very strange. I have never used my feet to control the Swing. I steer one of two ways - with my butt or with my hands.

I've been getting away from steering with my butt as it is much harder at high speed. Works OK at low speed but it is still hard to counter lean if I use that to steer the bike. When I used to go into a curve using butt steering I found it hard to get the bike to lean enough and making the turn often felt like I was fighting the bike.

It took a while but I finally discovered what my safety class instructors meant by counter-steering. At above about 25 mph I push forward on the left handlebar to turn left. The bike leans left and turns left. Weird but it works and makes it very easy turn, swerve etc. Only a little bit causes a lot of reaction so if you are not aware of doing it in the past be careful.

Below a certain speed the counter-steering does not work that well and simply pointing the wheel where I want to go is what works. Around 20 mph butt steering still seems to work and can be fun.

One result of counter-steering is that I am less afraid to lean my bike in turns. I also use counter balancing more often. My feet simply go where it's comfortable.

Favorite riding position? It depends. Probably 85% of the time I'm feet forward on the angle. But if I'm riding at a more, shall we say, spirited, pace, my feet are as far back as I can get them. I feel like I have more weight on my arms and thus the front wheel. If it's cold or wet, I'm tucked-in feet forward 100% of the time.

But really, isn't it a great feature of the SWing that we can choose where to put our feet instead of being limited to a pair of pegs or short floorboards?

Just a thought:

I tend to ride feet-forwards and keep my legs still because I feel comfortable like that.
However, I've been having some discomfort at the back of my left knee for a while and been feeling somewhat run-down of late.
Last week I suffered some agonizing (for me) back pain - it was like muscle-spasm - so much so that I ended up in hospital on Saturday suffering from a pulmonary embolism.
When the diagnosis had finally been made, the first question every doctor asked was whether I'd been on an aeroplane journey recently.
I said no but that I'd spent some longish hours on the Silverwing the previous weekend in particular, sitting very still.
At first the specialist pooh-poohed this but over the course of the five days did admit that it was certainly a major contributing factor.
I'm home, kitted-out with needles and pills, but have a way to go before I'm as near 100% as I was before.
I am determined to continue to stop at least once every hour and to damn-well make sure I move my legs OFTEN when I'm in the saddle.

Look after yourself Mike and please make a speedy recovery!

Thanks, Steve.
I was lucky to have had such good treatment, both from my GP and the hospital - everyone was very kind.
I will be very careful and follow what I've decided to the letter.

For my UK brothers and sisters: it was a pleasant experience being in a hospital (in Belgium) where all the staff spoke English. I'll say no more.

Sorry guys but I am just not understanding the concept of steering with you butt and counter steering. I will pick up the book of Proficient Motorcycling and pick up some more ideas on ridding.

For Mike O-----Hope you are all right---what I have found, still riding some pretty high mileages and being 72 and having spent an awful lot of saddle time==I get off every hour or 50 miles which ever comes first, motorcycle or scooter, this might slow your down a little bit, but at end of day you feel better. I ride/rode SilverWing feet first, feet and legs being an active part of 2 wheel riding. Old, you have to pee often, so the stops are needed anyway, especially when cold.

For John 123----I have been riding before "countersteering" words became popular. And have argued the thoughts. Bears and monkies can ride bikes and wouldn't know the words.

So----want to go right think right----that is in feet forward position, press right foot. My take hands and bars will follow. Logic---how else can bike be ridden "no hands"??? Not greatest to test with scooter. Just pushing or pulling on bars is just part of the deal. Secret=you are active part of bike----rather than being just plopped on seat. Hard to stand on pegs on scooter, I do it everyday on my motorcycle, to ease bumps or hop curbs, etc.

MSF courses aren't very good but hope you have at least taken one.

x

john grinsel wrote:

For John 123----I have been riding before "countersteering" words became popular. And have argued the thoughts. Bears and monkies can ride bikes and wouldn't know the words.

So----want to go right think right----that is in feet forward position, press right foot. My take hands and bars will follow. Logic---how else can bike be ridden "no hands"??? Not greatest to test with scooter. Just pushing or pulling on bars is just part of the deal. Secret=you are active part of bike----rather than being just plopped on seat. Hard to stand on pegs on scooter, I do it everyday on my motorcycle, to ease bumps or hop curbs, etc.

MSF courses aren't very good but hope you have at least taken one.

You can ride a bike with no hands because you are always below the speed that counter steering comes into play. Try riding a bike with no hands around a corner at any kind of speed and see where you end up. Counter steering which you tend to do naturally only unbalances the bike so it moves in the direction of the turn for a split second. If you mechanically held the bars ridgid pointing straight ahead, do you think you would be able to make a stable turn just by leaning? Sorry to disagree, but I can ride my scooter pushing my right foot as hard as possible all day long and if I do nothing else with my hands and body, that right turn is not happening.

AS far as the MSF comment goes, in my opinion MSF courses are excellent. Maybe it depends where you take it but I can tell you that I learned a tremendous amount on mine. This IMHO reflects a really bad attitude on your part no matter how experienced you are.

Like bigbird says it's pretty natural, if you lean as you come to a turn, you will automatically push steer whether you think about it or not. Remember at very slow speeds, you still turn like you would a bicycle, i.e. turn with your hands in the direction of the turn, but once you get up over 20 KPH or so, you no longer do that. If you try and turn the bars in the direction of the turn, without leaning or starting a push turn, at speeds over 20-30 KPH you wll find out pretty quickly that it will not turn.

I would still recommend that book for first time riders, it is excellent.

john123 wrote:

Sorry guys but I am just not understanding the concept of steering with you butt and counter steering. I will pick up the book of Proficient Motorcycling and pick up some more ideas on ridding.

Answering a question-----you can ride bike/scooter at 80mph no hands----surely that a speed where the bike goes left before right.(Countersteering) Parking lot speeds hands off might equal a flop no hands

As to MSF-----designed to sell bikes, sponsored by industry. Make it too hard=hurt sales.

My MSF instructor card is dated 1974-----had experience in Europe as Safety Manager of re-training people who already had MSF card and US licenses-----many could not ride way out of parking lot, much less at the speeds required to ride there

john grinsel wrote:

Answering a question-----you can ride bike/scooter at 80mph no hands----surely that a speed where the bike goes left before right.(Countersteering) Parking lot speeds hands off might equal a flop no hands

As to MSF-----designed to sell bikes, sponsored by industry. Make it too hard=hurt sales.

My MSF instructor card is dated 1974-----had experience in Europe as Safety Manager of re-training people who already had MSF card and US licenses-----many could not ride way out of parking lot, much less at the speeds required to ride there

If you can ride a scooter, no hands around a corner at 80 KPH, please do it put it up on youtube

Maybe it's different in europe but they are definitely not used t osell bikes in Canada

carlosw wrote:

cjuzda wrote:

Usually flat on the boards, particularly for city riding where you're doing a lot of stop and go, easier to put my feet down quickly. Also I feel like I have a bit better control and I'm more alert - strictly psychological I'm sure. On longer rides with no stops, on I think it's a good idea to change position every so often so I move my feet forward from time to time.

Chris

The truth is that there is more control when having the feet rearward and planted on the boards. It is easier to move your body and make the bike go where you want it. When sitting with the feet all the way forward, it's more relaxed and harder to flog the bike left or right. All relatively speaking of course since the Silverwing is not a race bike or heavy bike.

But a slouched position with feet forward gives a little less control in case of emergency.

I think that's why I like to move around, there are times when you can cruise in a relaxed way and when it's best to be ready for anything...

I find that most of the time, I ride with heels on the floor boards and toes up forward. I have long enough legs that the kink in the knees provides for long-term discomfort so I vary my foot position but when it is time to maneuver, back to half-way up.

I have been known to weave at speed in my lane at times for fun and to prevent a SMIDSY.

KB

with feet forward I can press myself against the backrest. I feel more connected with the bike

john123 wrote:

Sorry guys but I am just not understanding the concept of steering with you butt and counter steering. I will pick up the book of Proficient Motorcycling and pick up some more ideas on ridding.

Counter Steering:
Next time you are riding on a nice straight road with NO traffic above 25-30 mph VERY gently push forward on your left handlebar. Keep the rest of your body in the same position. The bike will lean left and start to turn left. Now push forward on the right handlebar. The bike will come up and then lean right and start to turn right.

It is called counter steering because you are pointing the front wheel away from where you want to go. It is opposite from where you point it when you are driving slow - or in a car.

Regular Steering:
Do this a 2 mph. VERY gently push forward on your left handlebar. Keep the rest of your body in the same position. You will need to lean right and the bike will start to turn right. Now push forward on the right handlebar. You will need to lean left and the bike will come up and then start to turn left.

Try it - but make your moves VERY gentle. It does not take much.

Hope this helps.