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 Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?

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BrianInVA
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PostSubject: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 18, 2024 3:33 pm

Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_8111Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_8112Hi folks,
In November I towed a “pop up camper” trailer from here in northwest Virginia to Florida and back, 3015 miles, over 17 days. The camper is a hard shell roof top tent I mounted to a small motorcycle trailer frame with an extended tongue, that weighs in around 240 pounds. Silverwing hitch is a Denray. The Silverwing performed flawlessly and had no problems towing. 

When I got back from the trip, the crown of my rear IRC tire, which was almost new when I left, was really flattened. So much that the indicated speed on my speedometer had changed several mph from the beginning of my trip till the end as compared to gps.

In September I’m going to take another long range camping trip towing this trailer, this time up to Nova Scotia, Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island. Total mileage will be 3500 to 4000 miles, so I want to replace my rear tire prior to making that trip. 

I stayed overnight with a Silverwing enthusiast in Florida who has a car tire on his Silverwing as well as several other scooters. I told him that towing was no problem but on long downhill curves I had to take it slow because the trailer wanted to push me through the curve. 

He strongly encouraged me to consider switching to a car tire for towing. He said the Silverwing will be much more stable, stop better, perform better in the rain and handle curves better while towing than with a motorcycle tire. He was pretty convincing and I’ve had others who tow campers with larger dark sided bikes tell me likewise. 

Obviously this isn’t a typical “car tire on a bike” application. It’s specifically to improve towing with the Silverwing. 

Any thoughts?


Last edited by BrianInVA on Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 18, 2024 4:51 pm

I have not used a car tire on any of my bikes in the past…it can be done and has been successfully. Here is a video to view showing the differences and potential pitfalls:

https://youtu.be/hEZeR9E3JyY?si=pIgWUVeYyEnfBW-9

It’s an opinion piece so I would not vote for or against it. I guess the only thing I would be concerned about is the potential of breaking the bead during a ride (unlikely but potential is there).
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BrianInVA
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 18, 2024 5:00 pm

Erdoc48 wrote:
I have not used a car tire on any of my bikes in the past…it can be done and has been successfully. Here is a video to view showing the differences and potential pitfalls:

https://youtu.be/hEZeR9E3JyY?si=pIgWUVeYyEnfBW-9

It’s an opinion piece so I would not vote for or against it. I guess the only thing I would be concerned about is the potential of breaking the bead during a ride (unlikely but potential is there).
Thanks. I’ve watched that video. More than once. 

But from reading about using a car tire on a motorcycle rim extensively, I’ve never found a case where this concern proved itself out in real applications. Maybe the dark siders are hiding this dirty little secret but I haven’t seen anything to substantiate this concern.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 19, 2024 1:30 pm

car tire not good for corners!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 20, 2024 9:57 am

If you look at it carefully and do some research----bike rims and care rims are different on bead!
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 20, 2024 12:00 pm


A great insight from the video. I wonder if towing a trailer may help with the bike handling when using a car tyre. You're hardly going to put your knee down when towing?

My conclusion would be that 'darksiding' when towing an axled trailer may be of benefit. I'm no expert and have never done towing on a bike. (That's my get-out clause).
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BrianInVA
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 20, 2024 9:42 pm

Loosemarbles wrote:

A great insight from the video. I wonder if towing a trailer may help with the bike handling when using a car tyre. You're hardly going to put your knee down when towing?

My conclusion would be that 'darksiding' when towing an axled trailer may be of benefit. I'm no expert and have never done towing on a bike. (That's my get-out clause).
I ride very conservatively when towing a trailer, so I’m not worried about dragging my knees in corners. I’m just hoping a car tire helps the bike stay planted and improve its braking in general. I suspect a car tire will help in this manner. 

I’ve been looking at this for years, clear back to when I had a Honda Pacific Coast. I let the concern over bike rim fit to car tire keep me from attempting it. 

Another decade later, I have yet to find any evidence where car tire fit to a bike rim played any role whatsoever in a real life incidence, and since I’m riding so conservatively when trailering Fortnine’s second concern over handling is a moot point.
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aaronb
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 29, 2024 12:43 pm

BrianInVA wrote:
Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_8111Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_8112Hi folks,
In November I towed a “pop up camper” trailer from here in northwest Virginia to Florida and back, 3015 miles, over 17 days. The camper is a hard shell roof top tent I mounted to a small motorcycle trailer frame with an extended tongue, that weighs in around 240 pounds. Silverwing hitch is a Denray. The Silverwing performed flawlessly and had no problems towing. 

Howdy, Brian! I haven't posted here in a long time.  I would recommend against "darksiding" for a lot of different reasons, safety being the number one concern.  Replacing tires is a lot cheaper than paying a big hospital bill.  Tire construction and loading characteristics for car tires are completely different for motorcycle tires. The carcas construction for automotive tires are designed to take load in only one axis (with minor lateral loading), unlike motorcycle tires which account for variable-axis loading due to leaning.  Automotive tire bead profiles are also different and don't seal the same way as motorcycle tires.  

I darksided my SW about a decade ago and the change in the scoot's handling was awful.  Cornering effort was super heavy and the scoot wouldn't track a line at all... it was always trying to stand up instead of maintaining trajectory.  The squared rear tire profile always felt like the scoot had a bald/flatted tire, and it got really squirrely if I leaned over far enough to get on the tire's edge.  Proponents of darksiding might say, "just don't lean it over that far," but that's a silly argument.  You never know when you might encounter a corner that's sharper than expected that REQUIRES you to lean the bike over... a downhill, decreasing radius in the mountains for example (ask me how I know).  So, I reverted to a Pirelli Diablo after about 1500 miles.

However, I'm replying for a different reason:  I'm curious about your trailer solution and how well it tows behind the SW.  I'm considering building a simiar but smaller pop-up camper for some of my smaller scoots.  I've pulled a single-wheel "bob" trailer 10K miles around the country behind my little Honda Super Cub 125, so I have plenty of road experience with trailering behind a motorcycle (  Honda Super Cub with a trailer )

How does your traditional two-wheel trailer feel on the road?  Do you have any problems with stability or hopping/chattering behind the bike over bumps?  I'll probably be towing my KipMoto SherpaX trailer behind the SW sometime soon, but I'm seriously considering the pop-up camper idea almost exactly like you've done here.  Ideally, it would be about 1/2 to 2/3 that width for a smaller footprint (less weight and easier to pull behind smaller bikes).  I'll probably use a 36" wide rooftop carrier shell and a custom trailer frame to keep the size and weight down.

Cheers!  😉👍  --QuasiMotard
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https://www.youtube.com/QuasiMotard
BrianInVA
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 29, 2024 12:56 pm

Hi aaronb,
Honestly it towed exceptionally well, better than I anticipated. Since I put a diy Heims type swivel hitch on the trailer tongue (similar to this: https://motorcycle7usa.com/question/diy-heim-joint-swiveling-hitch-coupler-no-welding/) it was sure footed and didn’t cause any problems in curves.

Prior owner had removed one of the two original leaf springs on each side, which seems to be common among those who tow this type of trailer with a bike, as it makes the trailer ride more smoothly and decreases noise and chatter from the trailer suspension.

When you do complete your trailer, please post photos of it here.. I’d love to see it.
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BrianInVA
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PostSubject: Re: Car tire for towing with a Silverwing?   Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? I_icon_minitimeFri May 10, 2024 5:36 pm

I finally took the plunge and mounted an Achilles 165/65/r13:
Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_0310


Car tire for towing with a Silverwing? Img_0311

I picked it up today and I’ve only put ten miles on it so far.

Initial impressions?

I’m surprised how little of a difference there was in handling in general. A little bit more and more prolonged countersteer was required in curves, and the rear end wants to walk to each side more with the crown of the road and road irregularities and grooves.

Otherwise after all the dire warnings I’m quite underwhelmed by the reality of it. It’s just not as big of an adjustment as I’d been anticipating. And I think it’s going to improve trailering stability considerably.
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