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Cosmic_Jumper
JohnyC
Delray
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Delray
Touring Scooter Rider
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Delray


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 12, 2023 7:43 am

Picked up a 2004 silver Silver Wing last week. It came with nice extras like a new Honda belt, new Malossi variator + rollers and new Malossi clutch.

I cracked open the CVT case last night at 21,700 miles. Definitely needs a belt. This one is original. I've done several Silver Wing belts and rollers/sliders so I'm fine with that (a sturdy universal variator holding tool also came with my purchase). I am thinking I'll install the Malossi variator and 24-gram rollers.

However, I never did anything with the clutch on a Silver Wing and that's my question. Or questions:

From reading this forum, it looks like I can engage the parking brake, loosen the nut and pull out the entire clutch assembly to clean and sand the pads with Emery cloth or fine sandpaper if needed. First question: is that sentence correct?

Second question: as long as I have a new Malossi clutch, is there an easy way to swap it out with the OEM? Four or five bolts? I don't have any special tools for the clutch, and with no experience, I am looking for "easy" or I simply won't install it. eBay is a good option.

(NOTE: I have a separate post offering these and other Malossi goodies for sale. I had a full price offer but the guy said his other bike just cost him $1,000 in surprise repairs so he backed out. Next best offer was $250. Nah, that's an insult. I may as well keep it all, enjoy enhanced performance and add to the value of the bike if I sell it. Tim: if you still want the white Malossi torque spring, I will mail it to you, gratis, in appreciation for the help you provide to so many here. Just PM me the address)

Thank you in advance for info and insights.

Clutch Question Maloss11
Clutch Question 1_left12
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JohnyC
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 12, 2023 8:57 am

Hi Delray.
In answer to your first question, the sentence is correct, once you remove the drive belt. I would also emery the clutch bell.
Second question, just remove the 6 bolts holding the OEM clutch on and swap for the Molossi fly, if the bell is not to badly scored(obviously a new bell would be preferred with a new clutch, and special tools would be needed to swap bells).
There are plenty of alternative ways to remove the bell without the OEM tools, just search Clutch tools in the search bar.

Hope this helps you....


Be safe, be seen!


Ps. Read my post entitled Malossi white 17Kg contra spring, search Malossi white.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 12, 2023 10:31 am

That Driven Pulley nut is only torqued to 40 lbs ft so it's easy to remove. If the parking brake doesn’t hold tight enough you can always zip tie the rear brake lever. Easy peasy.

I’ve flipped the Driven Pulley over and held it in a Workmate “vise” to remove those 6 bolts holding the clutch assembly.
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Delray
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Delray


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 12, 2023 12:11 pm

You're clutch, JohnyC. Very helpful tips, thanks. Just bought some emery cloth and I'm eager to crack the case.
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Delray
Touring Scooter Rider
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Delray


Number of posts : 399
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Location : Delray Beach FL
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 12:54 pm

Avoided a likely dealer tab today of $1,200 to $1,500 and installed a new Malossi variator with 24-gram rollers, new Malossi clutch and a new Honda belt.

Job was straightforward and made easier with good info and tips from this forum. Great feeling to start the bike and see everything running beautifully. Took it for a short test ride but I'll give the new belt 100 miles to get settled in before I push it to see what the fancy Italian parts can do.

Clutch Question Old_be10
Clutch Question New_be10
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Erdoc48
Touring Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 356
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 4:31 pm

Apologies if a stupid question…how long should a clutch last on a Silverwing? Mine is low mileage (I think 7300 miles at this time) but I was just wondering about the longevity of a clutch in a centrifugal clutch arrangement. My 2 ST1100s have the original clutches and grab fine but those are standard 5 speed motorcycles.
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Delray
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Delray


Number of posts : 399
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 5:04 pm

I don't have an answer for clutch life on the Silver Wing. I can offer an anecdotal example, namely a photo of my clutch at 21,800 miles. If I kept it, I'd de-glaze the pads and eventually replace them -- my bike was grabbing just fine, too. Only reason I switched clutches was the Malossi high performance unit came with the bike, and since I was in there changing the belt anyway ....

Clutch Question Img_7713
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 7:12 pm

Very good- thanks for the information as well as the picture (there’s lots of clutch pad present which makes me think you can easily get 50K out of the clutches)- I was watching a YT video regarding removal of the clutch due to squeaking - just one statement the narrator made was that in production, Honda may have under greased the needle bearings at the rear hub (in the clutch assembly)- is that a known issue? I don’t really want to tear into everything again being that I swapped my belt and rollers for sliders a couple of months ago- any need to be concerned for re-greasing that area?

Thank you.
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 7:42 pm

Answer for Erdoc48,

I would also point you to my post I listed to Delray above. The reason being if you look at the pictures of my clutch assembly you will see the needle rollers in mine were very black from getting hot despite the grease on view, there is also evidence the original bearing had not been pushed in far enough in production. Luckily the shaft showed no signs of burning and the bearing has been replaced and seated correctly.
So in my opinion, for how long it takes, CHECK THE GREASE! mine had less than 20k on the clock.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!

Ps. search Malossi White (17Kgs) in the search bar.
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Erdoc48
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Number of posts : 356
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Location : Myrtle Beach, SC
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 18, 2023 7:45 pm

VERY good to know…thanks very much!

I just looked at the pics- they were pretty blackened and shot- oh well, I have the appropriate tools, so off to work I go (well, tomorrow)!
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Erdoc48
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 356
Age : 60
Location : Myrtle Beach, SC
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 19, 2023 4:58 pm

Just an addendum- took it all apart today…bearings nice and smooth but checked the clutch pads and cleaned everything anyway and liberally applied the red lithium grease (NLG2) to the bearings before reinstallation. I then swapped my coolant (which was not in bad condition at all for 20 years of age, but again, only 7300 miles on it). I feel better having checked vs waiting and hoping there wasn’t an issue.
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Delray
Touring Scooter Rider
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Delray


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Location : Delray Beach FL
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Registration date : 2018-07-07

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 19, 2023 8:42 pm

"I feel better having checked vs waiting and hoping there wasn’t an issue."

Definitely a preferable feeling ....

When I changed my oil last week, after I cleaned the drain bolt and screen, I set the screen on top of the bolt and placed the spring over it, just to keep everything together. But without thinking I placed the screen back in the engine that way, resting on the bolt, instead of hanging on top of the spring like a basketball net.

I'm guessing it's no big deal and could wait until the next oil change, but I don't want to hope there's not an issue. No doubt there are Silver Wings running around with no screens at all. But in case this keeps bugging me, or if someone here sounds an alarm, I bought a new oil filter. I already have Pro Honda GN4 oil for the next oil change.

If I change oil now to correct the screen, why buy a new filter when it was changed just last week? Because I don't want to mix Motul 10W40 in there now with Honda 10W40 I will put in -- again, probably fine, but I don't want to hope it's not an issue.

Meanwhile, the fun stuff ....

I gave my new Malossi clutch a test tonight after 50 smooth, easy miles of letting the clutch, new belt, variator and rollers get acquainted.

Not kidding when I say I had to look at the dash a few times to remind myself I was riding a Silver Wing. Totally different bike. It's a sport bike now with the comforts of a touring scooter. The Malossi Wild Lion exhaust has a great growl from key-on to key-off. Power delivery is smooth and instant with no lag at any speed. When you want power, it's there. This is a blessing and a curse. It's exhilarating to zip from Point A to Point B faster, but it's easy to quickly reach the point where you feel the bike's suspension, tire size and handling are not exactly high-performance.

At speed, the engine is running 500 rpm's higher than the OEM parts, now using 24 gram Malossi rollers. The rpm at 50 mph = 4,500 ... 60 mph = 5,000 ... 70 mph = 5500. Seventy is about as fast as I'll go.

Tomorrow, new front brake pads arrive and that will be my final update-the-maintenance task. I added my signature touch to the nose of the bike, a Honda logo (photo). All six of my Silver Wings had that. You can find them under "Marks" in parts diagrams, less than $5.00. Usually I put them on the cowling, but with the silver paint, the white letters needed a dark background. I'm proud to show the world I'm riding a Honda.

Clutch Question 1_righ10
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Johnbil09


Number of posts : 129
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 02, 2023 9:35 am

Delray wrote:
Avoided a likely dealer tab today of $1,200 to $1,500 and installed a new Malossi variator with 24-gram rollers, new Malossi clutch and a new Honda belt.

Job was straightforward and made easier with good info and tips from this forum. Great feeling to start the bike and see everything running beautifully. Took it for a short test ride but I'll give the new belt 100 miles to get settled in before I push it to see what the fancy Italian parts can do.

Clutch Question Old_be10
Clutch Question New_be10
I have a question in the bottom pic the cap that goes over the contra spring then there’s a snap ring that holds it all together,would you have happen to measure the cap piece,from end to end ,i need that measurement so I can make a tool out of a c-channel or can you measure the contra spring you pulled out of it if you didn’t trash it..

Thank you
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JohnyC
Touring Scooter Rider
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JohnyC


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 02, 2023 11:37 am

Hi John.
The outside diameter of the Contra spring is 80mm and is a snug fit in the cap.
Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen and heard!
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Johnbil09
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Johnbil09


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 02, 2023 11:49 am

JohnyC wrote:
Hi John.
The outside diameter of the Contra spring is 80mm and is a snug fit in the cap.
Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen and heard!
Hi JohnC

Yes Sir that’s what I needed to know. 👍👍


Thank you

Ride Safely
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Johnbil09


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 3:41 pm

I just wanted to update my second mod.on my Swing i changed out the belt, 28gram DrPulley sliders and slides in the stock variator, Mallosi white Contra spring,Mallosi Sport Fly clutch,everything was straight forward and I torqued everything to spec according to the service manual and she moves along nicely now, ,,thank you everyone for your help it is much appreciated,the first mod.i did was a 18”carbon fiber Delkevic which the only hiccup with that was I had to cut the two bolts that were rusted on the wide clamp had to be cut with the grinder,the pics shows the spring compressor I made with tbreaded rod and tbe variator holder,im going to save the belt and weights for an emergency and all tools will stay with the bike,oh I forgot to take a pic of the clutch
It was too hot to change the front springs out so I’ll leave that for another day,a question though,,how do you know how much oil goes in each fork tube,I believe I seen it holds 10.2 ounces but I think that’s with a stock spring,,is there a fill line inside to fork that I can see ?
Clutch Question 3cca2810
Clutch Question 97289710
Clutch Question C84a7f10


Last edited by Johnbil09 on Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Johnbil09
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Johnbil09


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 3:42 pm

Clutch Question 826baa10
Clutch Question D2d85910
Clutch Question Fcf8aa10
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Johnbil09


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 3:44 pm

Clutch Question Ee253b10
Clutch Question 17de0310
Clutch Question 5b72f310
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Johnbil09


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 3:50 pm

A few more picsClutch Question F2fbbf10
Clutch Question 5c2e1110
Clutch Question 92724b10
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 4:45 pm

There is no fork oil fill line. IIRC the correct fork oil level is 90mm 97 mm from the top —with the fork tube collapsed. After initially filling be sure to pump the fork tube several times to burp any air bubbles.

The legendary Stefano Bonacasa of the Italian SWCI forum has a two part front suspension rebuilding YouTube video.

Select Closed Caption (cc) and then try to find Auto Translate to English —it’s there but awkward to locate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vReg0GGJLUk&t=1233s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMXjRO24s7Q


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Johnbil09
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Johnbil09


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 5:17 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
There is no fork oil fill line. IIRC the correct fork oil level is 90mm from the top —with the fork tube collapsed. After initially filling be sure to pump the fork tube several times to burp any air bubbles.

The legendary Stefano Bonacasa of the Italian SWCI forum has a two part front suspension rebuilding YouTube video.

Select Closed Caption (cc) and then try to find Auto Translate to English —it’s there but awkward to locate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vReg0GGJLUk&t=1233s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMXjRO24s7Q
He put the more densely wound end down ,my instructions say they go up
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 5:47 pm

The tight wound end goes down. The FSM (14-p17) is incorrect* And the oil level is 97mm. I’m editing my previous post to correct that.


*Actually it probably doesn't make a bit of a difference.


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Johnbil09


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Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 5:53 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
The tight wound end goes down. The FSM is incorrect. And the oil level is 97mm. I’m editing my previous post to correct that.
What does FSM mean ?


Clutch Question 52018010
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4416
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 6:07 pm

Factory Service Manual
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Johnbil09
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Johnbil09


Number of posts : 129
Age : 59
Location : Jersey City
Points : 604
Registration date : 2023-03-23

Clutch Question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 14, 2023 11:41 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Factory Service Manual
Lol,ok will do,thank you for the info


Ride Safely
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Loosemarbles
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Loosemarbles


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 15, 2023 2:53 am

Aah, the subject of fork spring orientation. If you do some searching from the searchbar above, some of the discoveries will blow your mind. Somewhere in there is a link to a video in which a guy proves that a spring couldn't care less which way up it lives.

I've tried my springs both ways and noticed no difference so I put them in as per FSM. After all, my rear shocks have the tighter coil at the top.
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Marvincon
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Marvincon


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 15, 2023 3:10 am

https://youtu.be/9-2xt7PV_hA

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Johnbil09
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Johnbil09


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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Question   Clutch Question I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 15, 2023 7:22 am

Loosemarbles wrote:
Aah, the subject of fork spring orientation. If you do some searching from the searchbar above, some of the discoveries will blow your mind. Somewhere in there is a link to a video in which a guy proves that a spring couldn't care less which way up it lives.

I've tried my springs both ways and noticed no difference so I put them in as per FSM. After all, my rear shocks have the tighter coil at the top.
I watched a couple videos on swapping out the springs and the only difference would be in the amount of oil needed between the two,I believe the tightly wound end down you would use slightly less oil in the fork because the more coils it has it’s taking up more space,I’ll put them in opposite of what the manual says, things went great yesterday I’d like to keep things going that way…👍👍👍
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