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2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeby Erdoc48 Yesterday at 6:58 pm

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 2009 Silverwing start issues

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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2022 7:05 pm

I'm at wits end.  Everything works except starting.  When I push starter the lights go off and the starter doesn't even click.  I've checked kick stand and rear brake and even sprayed some electronics cleaner in it thinking it might be corrodid, but didn't help.  Battery is charged and connections tight. It has started off and on but presently is off.  Have no idea why it started.  I have a new battery coming, but if it is the battery, why do the lights work? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 26, 2022 11:48 pm

Wait until your new battery arrives and see what happens. If still no joy check the starter relay.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 am

It could be the battery but the other "costs nothing" checklists the starter interlock. Before mine went I had sometimes it starts, sometimes it don't period.
On the left bar are two sets of electrical connections to the brake lever switch. One set operates the brake light, the other the starter interlock - this sometimes gets corroded. Try shorting out the starter interlock or swapping the connectors over and see if that works. If it does clean or replace the switch.
If you swap over DO NOT leave it like that as you won't have a working rear brake light.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 27, 2022 7:10 am

Have you measured actual battery voltage, key off, key on or while pushing starter button, what you describe sounds like a weak/shorted/dead battery. Try by connecting/jump starting from a car battery, just make sure the car is "NOT-RUNNING/STARTED" (or scooter charging system could be damaged), keeping a bad battery in scooter could also damage charging system.

After 1 hour off charger

Key off 12.4 +
Key on 12.2 +
Start push and engine spinning approx. 11volts
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 27, 2022 7:17 am

The battery would be my first choice as well, the scoots need a healthy battery to run the starter. I replaced my start/rear brake switch last year. The brake light portion went out NOT the starter part. Very easy swap and I kept the old switch in case the starter portion went out on the new one... In addition is easy to jump the switch to get the bike going.

Good luck.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 12:11 pm

Thank you all so much. Love this forum. New battery should be here today! Will update. I appreciate everyone’s input.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 7:29 pm

Not the battery. Can anyone tell me where the starter relay is located?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 8:30 pm

Remove the left side panel. The relay is above the pillion foot peg, toward the front of the front of the panel. Just follow the fat battery cable.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 9:23 pm

I recently had a similar issue with my ST1300, even when all the interlocks should have allowed a start (in neutral, and sidestand up) I got nothing from the starter until I pulled in the clutch. In my case I suspect the diode was at fault, and when I removed it to check I found no fault, but it worked normally afterwards so I suspect a dirty connector may have caused the issue.

The Swing starter solenoid relies on 12v being fed from the battery through the ignition switch and fuse, to the engine stop relay then to the L brake microswitch then starter button and then to the starter relay (Y/R). The earth side (G/W) of the starter relay passes through the sidestand switch (retracted) to ground.  

You should see 12v at the yellow/red wire of the starter solenoid when the start button is pressed. And you should have continuity to earth on the green/white wire with the stand up.

My Swing needed a good squeeze on the left brake in order to actuate the second microswitch (the first just does the brake lights).
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 9:31 pm

Thank you for your reply. It will sometimes start but it is few and far between. I’m going to check the starter relay switch tomorrow. Thanks again.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 28, 2022 9:39 pm

Grandnglorious wrote:
Thank you for your reply.  It will sometimes start but it is few and far between.  I’m going to check the starter relay switch tomorrow.  Thanks again.

Intermittent starting sounds a lot like the left lever interlock. You need to hear two distinct clicks as you pull it in. Check that you get continuity bewteen the black/white and green/red when the lever is pulled in fully. Those microswitches are prone to dirt and corrosion. You can jumper those two wires together (a blade fuse is a handy joiner) to bypass the switch for testing.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 2:33 am

We keep saying that Terry (left lever interlock switch), but he want to play with the starter relay first.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 11:31 am

Terry Smith wrote:
Grandnglorious wrote:
Thank you for your reply.  It will sometimes start but it is few and far between.  I’m going to check the starter relay switch tomorrow.  Thanks again.

Intermittent starting sounds a lot like the left lever interlock. You need to hear two distinct clicks as you pull it in. Check that you get continuity bewteen the black/white and green/red when the lever is pulled in fully. Those microswitches are prone to dirt and corrosion. You can jumper those two wires together (a blade fuse is a handy joiner) to bypass the switch for testing.

There are two very distinctive sounds. Since I am new at this, I need A little more instruction in checking the wires/micro switches. I do Not doubt your evaluation and I do Need to bypass the switch to identify the problem but not too savvy as new owner as steps to do it. Same with bypassing starter relay to check it.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 12:03 pm

Wouldn't it be great if more people bought their own copy of or downloaded the Honda Silver Wing Factory Service Manual.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 1:37 pm

Ordered one last night.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 3:51 pm

Grandnglorious wrote:
Terry Smith wrote:
Grandnglorious wrote:
Thank you for your reply.  It will sometimes start but it is few and far between.  I’m going to check the starter relay switch tomorrow.  Thanks again.

Intermittent starting sounds a lot like the left lever interlock. You need to hear two distinct clicks as you pull it in. Check that you get continuity bewteen the black/white and green/red when the lever is pulled in fully. Those microswitches are prone to dirt and corrosion. You can jumper those two wires together (a blade fuse is a handy joiner) to bypass the switch for testing.

There are two very distinctive sounds. Since I am new  at this, I need A little more instruction in checking the wires/micro switches. I do Not doubt your evaluation and I do Need to bypass the switch to identify the problem but not too savvy as new owner as steps to do it. Same with bypassing starter relay to check it.

To bypass the brake interlock microswitch, pull the two female spade connectors off (the ones with black/white and green red wires) and join them together with something metallic (like a fuse) to complete a circuit. You now no longer need to pull the brake lever in to complete the starter circuit. Try to start the bike now.

To check the switch, get a multimeter and set if to test continuity (or resistance), with the lever pulled in there should be continuity (low resistance) between the terminals and no continuity (infinite resistance) with the lever out.
2009 Silverwing start issues Swing_18
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 3:59 pm

I had a glance through the service manual on this problem and it only covers the obvious things. It didn't tell me to check for corrosion of my fan relay when my engine overheated. The manual doesn't allow for Gremlins Twisted Evil

The Gremlin's motto is; "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong" .

"when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". thumbs up
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 6:52 pm

Thank you for your advice. The wires I have are black/white but no yellow/green. There is a yellow/black. Is that the same?
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 29, 2022 8:10 pm

At the left brake interlock the wires to jumper should be black/white and green/red as these complete the path to the starter solenoid.

The black/yellow and black/brown wires at the left brake are for the brake light only.

Yellow/red is at the starter solenoid.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 5:38 pm

I do not have those colors in wiring and I still have the same problem with bike. Being a novice with this bike, I sure could use some friendly help
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 6:42 pm

Maybe, never mind the wire colours. Each switch on the left lever assembly has two wires. Remove the two wires from one switch and join them together. Now try to start the bike.

If that doesn't work replace the wires back onto the switch. Now remove the two wires from the other switch and join those together and try to start the bike.

If it still doesn't start then you know that the switches are not the problem.

Whatever the case be sure to RECONNECT THE WIRES BACK ONTO BOTH SWITCHES BEFORE PROCEEDING FURTHER.

Please keep us posted on your progress.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 6:47 pm

Have you removed the Bl/W and G/R wires on the left brake light switch? On the wiring diagram Terry posted they are referred to as the Limit Switch, and are the 1/4" terminals on that 4 terminal switch. The other 3/8" terminals are the actual brake light switch wires.

Anyway, short the Bl/W and G/R wires together --as Terry suggests a 1/4" terminal fuse would be fine for this. So if you've done that, what's happened?

The wiring diagrams Terry has provided are taken directly from the Factory Service Manual (FSM), and show all the circuit components in the starting circuit.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 8:57 pm

I have checked with a volt meter; rear brake, kick stand, battery, and all good. Next is starter relay switch, but how do I get to it?
Loosemarbles wrote:
Maybe, never mind the wire colours. Each switch on the left lever assembly has two wires. Remove the two wires from one switch and join them together. Now try to start the bike.

If that doesn't work replace the wires back onto the switch. Now remove the two wires from the other switch and join those together and try to start the bike.

If it still doesn't start then you know that the switches are not the problem.

Whatever the case be sure to RECONNECT THE WIRES BACK ONTO BOTH SWITCHES BEFORE PROCEEDING FURTHER.

Please keep us posted on your progress.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 8:58 pm

I have checked with a volt meter; rear brake, kick stand, battery, and all good. Next is starter relay switch, but how do I get to it?
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 02, 2022 11:52 pm

It's under the left hand side cover. I'll post the excerpt from the manual in the morning unless anybody does so first.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2022 7:06 am

Here are the diagrams from the service manual:

2009 Silverwing start issues Starte10

2009 Silverwing start issues Starte12

2009 Silverwing start issues Starte11

Hope this helps. If the images are too small I can PM them to you.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2022 9:49 am

I'm sorry for your troubles but it's great to see a problem like this that requires every potential problem area checked in turn. When you get sorted maybe the thread could be edited a bit and stickied.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2022 4:45 pm

UPDATE: Finally got to the starter relay. Battery side lights up fine. Touching other side of relay, pulling break handle and starter switch does nothing. Assuming it might be the relay. Honda closed today. Will try to pick one up tomorrow. Did the bypass test and motor turns over although it does not start. Any other suggestions welcomed.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2022 6:01 pm

Is it making a sound?
See if the relay is getting what it needs on the input.

Run through 20-11 in the manual.
Sorry - my internet connection is very poor so I can't help you with the page.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 03, 2022 8:42 pm

Grandnglorious wrote:
UPDATE: (Snip) Did the bypass test and motor turns over although it does not start.

Well since you bypassed the interlock/start switch and it now cranks that suggests that that switch was bad. And now that it cranks but wont start you should check the plugs, plug caps, and plug wires. You might also need a new fuel pressure regulator (FPR) which, if it fails, will cause a lack of fuel to the injectors.

There may also be corrosion on the red CKP wiring connector (Y & W/Y wires) coming from the stator housing and is located behind the rightside pillion peg and panel. Not the 3 yellow wire connector which is the stator wiring)

Meanwhile leave the interlock switch bypassed until you sort things and do put a trickle charger on the battery overnight.
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 08, 2022 2:13 pm

Installed new starter relay. Made no difference. Overrode relay manually and motor turns over but does not start. Out of ideas. Do not want to take to Honda bike dealer. Wanted 127 dollars for a 10 dollar relay.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 08, 2022 3:20 pm

This is a shot in the dark, but if you have voltage to the primary side of the spark plug coil try a new coil. But, before you go to the expense of a new coil, first replace the spark plug wires & caps. Be sure to get OEM Silverwing wires. There seems to be a difference in wires even between Honda wires.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 09, 2022 1:05 am

Could there be a problem with the rectifier? Is there a way to test it?
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2022 1:48 pm

I replaced starter relay, new battery, cleaned starter switch, checked plugs, checked several electrical components with multimeter, and put fresh gas in tank. and it started. Now I have a gas leak.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 14, 2022 1:53 pm

The gas leak may have been the problem in the first place. Is the engine responding to throttle opening?

Where is the gas leak coming from?

I see this issue has moved to a different thread!!!
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 15, 2022 7:32 pm

Yes. I started A new thread for help
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 15, 2022 10:55 pm

That's fine but can you please confirm that your SW is now starting and running ok?... and what you think the problem was?
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 15, 2022 11:02 pm

Starter relay switch was bad and starter switch needed cleaning. Runs great but needs a new felt seal on fuel pump.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16, 2022 4:04 am

That's great. We're all wishing you well on fixing that fuel leak thumbs up
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Grandnglorious
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PostSubject: Re: 2009 Silverwing start issues   2009 Silverwing start issues I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 16, 2022 10:12 am

👍
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