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 Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story

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Cosmic_Jumper
Loosemarbles
RadRich34
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RadRich34
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 6
Location : NW Indiana, USA
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Registration date : 2022-08-31

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PostSubject: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 2:55 pm

Hello,
I'm brand new to this forum, (thanks for the add), and I have an interesting story.  I sold my 08 Silverwing about 3 years ago.  Totally loved it, just wanted to get into larger cruisers.  

Since then I have changed my mind again and have switched to classic english style bikes.  I have a Royal Enfield Classic 500 and a Triumph t120 Bonneville.  I love them both.  

About a week ago, I was given an amazing opportunity.  A free 2003 Silverwing!!! It's a long story, when I arrived to pick up the bike, I found out a few details.

The bike has been sitting in a garage for about 9 years.  They had originally told me they could not find the keys after looking for weeks.  They just wanted it gone.(Cleaning out the house for sale).  I was handed a set of keys and was told that they thought that this was the correct key, a copy, but the correct key.  In my excitement, I broke the key off in the ignition.  Moments later, I found the original keys in the right side glove box.  Oh my lord was I mad at myself.  

Anyway after renting a truck to get the bike home, trying for hours to remove the key from the ignition, hiring a locksmith to remove the broken key, which he could not do, I am at my current situation.  To have the ignition switch replaced at the dealer is just under $500.  Not a bad investment for a free scooter, but it hasn't run in 9 years.  My finances and my wife will severely kick my butt if I spend that money before I even know if it will run.

Any suggestions? Is it not that hard to replace the ignition switch?  Can I use an aftermarket one?  How about bypassing the ignition switch and putting in a toggle switch?  I could place the toggle in the locking glove compartment (because I found the keys moments after breaking the wrong one).  I just want the easiest fix so that I can find out if she will run.  The scooter seems to be in pretty darn good shape.  Please give me some advice.  Sorry for the crazy long post.  Thanks in advance.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
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Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1212
Age : 61
Location : South East England
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 3:07 pm


Whow!...slow down. That is a long story! First off, it's not difficult to remove the ignition switch. By doing that you could probably remove the broken key once the switch is off the bike.

If not...it's not difficult to replace the ignition switch, there are some on eBay which I assume come with the correct key. Even if they don't a dealer could find the code for the replacement switch and get you a key.

It should still be a lot less than $500. affraid

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RadRich34
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Number of posts : 6
Location : NW Indiana, USA
Points : 107
Registration date : 2022-08-31

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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 3:10 pm

Wow thanks for the fast response!! That is what I will try to do then. remove the ignition switch and retrieve the key. I couldn't find any youtube videos on the subject of Silverwing ignition switch replacement. Do you have any advise to follow?
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
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Loosemarbles


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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 3:18 pm

Well, you need to be confident with tools like socket wrenches and screwdrivers etc.

It's a case of removing the handlebar covers (be careful, it's easy to break that plastic). From memory, the ignition switch is held in place by two screws and it should come free quite easily. I'm not sure where it plugs into the wiring loom or how accessible that is but you might be able to get the broken key out without actually unplugging it.

Take the handlebar covers off and remove the switch and then take it from there. Let us know how you get on from there. Be careful not to stress the wiring.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4308
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 4:34 pm

Hello Rich. Welcome to the forum.

Not to be discouraging but this is going to be bad news. However it’s the unfortunate reality of a garage-find Silverwing. So here goes:

IIRC you may well need to remove the Front Cover (front fairing) as a start to access the ignition switch. And then remove the Inner Box (the paneling above your knees and above the fuel fill) along with the handlebar covers. Then you can remove the ignition switch assembly. Hopefully your locksmith can disassemble the ignition lock and extract the key.

There, that part was easy.

Now the sad reality:

Sorry to say but it’s not gonna run. Because the poor beastie has been neglected whatever fuel was in the tank when last used has turned to sludge and hardened varnish and ruined the fuel pump/fuel gauge sending unit. And the tank will quite probably have been fatally contaminated by rust as well. So do expect that you’ll need to remove the seat and tunnel cover (and floor skirts and sub frame) so that you can drop the fuel tank and replace the fuel pump/sending unit assembly. Maybe even the fuel tank assembly. The good news there is that if you order the fuel tank from Honda it comes with the fuel pump assembly.

The best suggestion I have here is that you get a Factory Service Manual (FSM) from eBay. They are all the same  so you won’t need to search for a year-specific FSM. Hopefully you have the mechanical skills to do this in the garage. It’s all basic tools and skills. Having a Honda shop do this work will certainly be cost prohibitive.

There are many knowledgeable folks here who are willing to help so please ask. And do make use of the forum Search function —there’s a wealth of information buried in the “archives”. Also IIRC Brian in VA went thru similar barn-find issues recently.

Just to get you started here is a video showing how to remove the Front Cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=5uv2qyxA-AA

And here’s Partzilla’s parts breakdown of a 2003 Silverwing. It may help you in understanding the Silverwing puzzle:
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/scooter/2003/fsc600d-ac-silver-wing
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BrianInVA
Super Scooter Rider
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BrianInVA


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Location : VA
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 5:02 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
So expect to remove the seat and tunnel cover (and floor skirts and sub frame) so that you can drop the fuel tank and replace the fuel pump/sending unit assembly. Maybe even the fuel tank assembly. The good news there is that if you order the fuel tank from Honda it comes with the fuel pump assembly.

…Also IIRC Brian in VA went thru similar barn-find issues recently.
Yes, my 2006 SW had sat for five years in a garage right next to the Chesapeake bay, and after a month of riding it after I got it home, a big rust hole broke through the bottom of the fuel tank and drained the tank. I’m assuming it was stored empty and water condensed inside the tank and pooled at the bottom.

I tried to fix it with epoxy and fiberglass fuel tank repair and it did solidly seal that hole, but another opened up several inches away. A 4”x6” area at the bottom of the tank was badly rusted. Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story Cad08e10

I did have to remove the tunnel cover, floor skirts and sub frame to drop the old tank, but not the seat.

The new tank came with the entire fuel pump, fuel filter and fuel gauge sending unit already installed.

Fuel tank assembly is Honda OEM Part 17510-MCT-010

I’m no mechanic. If I can do it, anyone can. The hardest part was getting the nut off the stud at the top of the tank, just above the gas fill port, without taking off more body panels. It can be done by small hands using an open box wrench. Honda would have charged a fortune to swap out the tank.

Taking off the appropriate body panels to access your ignition switch might make this easier.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 5:12 pm

If we're talking about the ignition key barrel, it's attached to the handlebar post under the handlebar covers. At least mine was the last time I looked confused
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BrianInVA
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BrianInVA


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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 5:15 pm

Also as routinely recommended here, install new tires, change the motor oil and filter, the air filter, rear drive oil and brake fluids.

And install a new cvt belt. I used a GBoost and while I was in there installed 26g Dr. Pulley sliders.

And while you have the cvt cover off, examine the whole drive train. My driven clutch assembly was badly rusted but it was superficial and cleaned up after wrapping rags soaked in EnviroRust liguid around the assembly overnight then scrubbing everything with a wire brush:
Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story A3af9810

The only thing I had the Honda shop do was inspect it, install the tires and completely rebuild the front forks, one of which was leaking badly. Again, I’m no mechanic and didn’t want to attempt rebuilding the forks and installing tires. Everything else I was able to do after asking LOTS of annoying noob questions and watching numerous videos.
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zrx212
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 398
Age : 63
Location : Ocala, FL
Points : 1123
Registration date : 2020-12-26

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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 5:28 pm

Most of this, is a public service announcement !!

That scooter will need everything checked and serviced, all new fluids, new filters, new tires, new drive belt, check cvt components condition ??, very possible anything made out of rubber is age hardened/brittle from lack of use, new battery, complete fuel system flush/service, Like CJ wrote, almost certain fuel tank is rusted/junk.

Even after you addressed the fuel system, etc. There are especial steps to take prior to cranking engine, like lubing cylinders, turning by hand to make sure it spins, etc., etc.

If you are paying professionals like a locksmith and/or dealer $500 to replace a $115 switch, will you be willing and capable to repair issues yourself scratch

You can probably part it out or sell as is for parts, but it could be a long/slow process on a scooter with virtually no failure prone issues. In any case a 2003 has less value. Do you have proper paperwork and no accumulated back taxes+fees Question

Honestly, walkaway, unless you're looking for a money pit hobby. Rolling Eyes
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RadRich34
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 6
Location : NW Indiana, USA
Points : 107
Registration date : 2022-08-31

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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 8:56 pm

Thank you all for the advice, please keep it coming. Here is where I'm at. So far I have $100 bucks for truck rental. $60 bucks in a battery that hasn't arrived yet. I took alot of it apart today. I want to attempt to install a toggle switch instead of purchasing a new ignition switch. If I cut the wires just below the ignition switch, and have the wires in hand, how can I attempt to start it? If I connect the three wires together won't that be the same as turning on the ignition? If the bike will start, then I will make my next decision
The bike looks to be in great shape. I know that looks can be deceiving. If I could get any advise on connecting the wires and attempting to get the engine to turn over, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for your help.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
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Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1212
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Location : South East England
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 9:57 pm

Wiring isn't my strong point and anyway, I'm colour blind. Good luck with your plans thumbs up
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4308
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 10:10 pm

Red and Red/Black seems to be the two wires you are looking for. Red it hot. That and sidestand up, kill switch OFF, and left brake handle squeezed all the way in. Then activate the right side push-to-start switch.

The Blue/Orange wire if the fan.
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RadRich34
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 6
Location : NW Indiana, USA
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 10:25 pm

Cosmic jumper, thanks
If you were to wire up a toggle switch, how would you do it? Red on one side and red/black and blu/ orange on the other?
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steve_h80
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 2:14 am

This will keep you out of mischief over the winter 🤣
As said get the service manual and take your time. These are fundamentally sound bikes and quite easy to work on provided some knuckle-scraper hasn't bodged everything.
A full service is easy, you should be able to replace the lock barrel yourself, tyres are cheap.
Don't forget the beer supply...
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zrx212
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 398
Age : 63
Location : Ocala, FL
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 9:29 am

Before you even try to start engine, you should remove spark plugs and spray generous amount of lubricant in cylinders, let sit overnight, to free stuck/corroded piston rings, etc., no steel sleeves on this engines, just hard-coated aluminum, easily scored/damaged, change oil with conventional/cheap stuff initially (just drain filter for now), oil in there is 9yrs old !!, you can spin engine manually by just removing front cvt plastic cover. Then spin engine with starter for approx. 5 seconds, with spark plug still removed, to prime oil system/circulate oil. Then try to start !! Of course do all this after you drain/clean tank, fuel lines, fresh fuel, etc.

BTW, why was the Scooter sitting for 9yrs (or so they say Question) did it break down, owner unable to ride, garage decoration/conversation piece. That's the most important question to ask scratch

In Any Case, you really don't ask for details, when gifted a "Box of Chocolates"
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 9:33 am

RadRich34 wrote:

If you were to wire up a toggle switch, how would you do it? Red on one side and red/black and blu/ orange on the other?

Please don’t go round cutting wires. Doing that will surely start you down the POS Ghetto path.

Buy a FSM or maybe check one of the Silverwing FB forums for an on-line FSM. They have wiring diagrams so you’ll be able to trace problems. But don’t do a bodge job. I’m kinda sure that you can jury rig a jumper switch from the hot wire at the main relay to wherever that R/Bl wire goes without cutting the harness. In fact the harness probably unplugs from the switch body.

And, as steve_h80 said, take your time, make it a winter project. Once you get those panels off and have access to the ignition switch assembly you’ll be able to remove it and disconnect the harness from the switch body.

And IIRC there is a motorcycle scrap yard a bit east of Toledo Ohio who frequently lists Silverwing parts on eBay. A little bit of internet sleuthing should get you an address and phone number.

You already know that you’re going to need a fuel pump and fuel tank. So don’t cut wires. You don’t need to be a watchmaker to work on Silverwings. They are easy to work on. But if you start cutting wires you’ll quite soon have a pile of rubbish. Do the job right.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 10:45 am

I hate when people own a nice product and let it sit, especially with Ethanol fuel in the tank or let the tank run dry so water in the fuel can rot the tank- happened to my SW when the prior owner had it and at least I have a new (I think) tank and fuel pump because from sitting it was all rotted.

As for the one in question, I really hope you can get it running because free is always nice, that is, unless you have to put a few thousand to make it run well. For some, a ‘basket case’ is a challenge…for me, I wouldn’t have the time to invest to get it running again (unless it was something VERY easy). I do have a question…if the tank and fuel pump is potentially toast, wouldn’t that also apply to the fuel lines (rubber and metal) and injectors?

I cycle the bikes, and frequently (use each one for the next successive ride)- this way, it empties the existing tank of fuel, and then I fill them with ethanol free fuel, keep them on a tender, and they always fire right up. I had an experience with one of the STs years ago…it sat when I lived in NJ (but only for ~ 6 months) and I couldn’t get it to idle > 500 rpm, but would otherwise run fine at speed. I nearly sold it because I thought it was unsolvable. My brother prompted me to pull the carbs and clean out the pilot jets (it was my first experience doing this type of work) which I did, and since then and to this day), the bike runs great (plus, I learned a lot more about the bike since then) and I vowed to never let it sit that long again.
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zrx212
Touring Scooter Rider
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Location : Ocala, FL
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 11:03 am

RadRich34 wrote:
Cosmic jumper, thanks
If you were to wire up a toggle switch, how would you do it? Red on one side and red/black and blu/ orange on the other?


That will definitely work, but don't cut yourself short (literally), cut wires where they can be repaired, use wire tap connector or simply drive a metal sewing pin across all 3 wires for testing, obviously don't touch any metal parts, but worst case just blows main 30A fuse.
Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story Swswit10
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4308
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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 01, 2022 11:21 am

There ya go!  ZXR212's illustration clearly shows a 3 pin wire harness connection plug. So locate that plug, disconnect it, then use a paperclip(s) to bypass the ignition switch and make the connection. No wire cutting required.


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RadRich34
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Number of posts : 6
Location : NW Indiana, USA
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Registration date : 2022-08-31

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PostSubject: Re: Help me!!!! I need advise!!! crazy story   Help me!!!! I need advise!!!  crazy story I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 02, 2022 12:21 pm

The story I'm getting is that an older gentelman loved his silverwing. He rode it alot. He then fell ill and passed away. He had a friend or brother that would come and start it up and maybe take it on little rides. So while it was "sitting for several years (9-6) I believe there was a few times in between that someone would start it and let it run. The niece is now preparing the house for sale and needed it gone. I don't believe that it has been started in at lease 5 years. Long time. I have removed some of the pieces and the handle bars. I am not getting power to the ignition connection. i will spend some time on it this weekend. My hope is to see if I can get it started by jumping the wires. If that works, then I will invest in a new switch or a toggle switch and put it in the lockable left glove compartment. Or maybe try to get the key out of the ignition once I have removed it. It is really stuck in there. Thanks to all of you for your comments, please keep them coming. I need to find out where the power is getting cut.
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