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 Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?

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Mech 1 twa
BrianInVA
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:09 pm

Hi folks,
In yet another tale of why NOT to buy a bike that sat unused for five years on a big saltwater bay, I took my Silverwing apart in anticipation of replacing the cvt belt and putting Dr. Pulley 26gm sliders in the primary clutch. (I’m not worried about “performance” or “speed,” I just thought these would provide a little better low end grunt when I’m towing a small trailer.)

When I got it apart, I immediately noticed the condition of these rusty secondary clutch assembly parts:Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 57f50410
Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 66979a10

My Silverwing has 7,000 miles on it. I’ve put 150 miles on it since I had new tires installed and the front forks rebuilt. I noticed no problems with driving it and no noise from the rear of the cvt.

Is this an issue I should be concerned about? Or can it be ridden like this indefinitely?

eBay currently has a 2004 and 2008 Secondary Clutch / Pulley / Basket / Bell if the whole assembly should be replaced, but there’s no way I would attempt to disassemble the current one to replace just the rusty parts.

(Yes, this is an abject lesson in why you should never buy a used Silverwing without tearing apart the cvt to check on these things, but I was far from home, exhausted and desperate to get back home as quickly as possible when I bought it.)

(And ignore the bloody hatchet…)
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:15 pm

I do have some EnviroRust, a liquid rust inhibitor. I could remove the assembly and put that end in a container full of this rust inhibitor over night. The stuff does an amazing job of arresting rust on old metal parts.
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Mech 1 twa
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:35 pm

Don't dunk that in rust inhibitor there are two bearings inside and outer will be soaking in it removing the grease. I'd be more worried about the bearings than the surface rust. Inner bearing is easy to see when removed outer shine a light into there you'll see it. Inner is a needle bearing outer is ball type.
It's not hard to compress the collar and remove spring but need some tools to do it.
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:38 pm

Mech 1 twa wrote:
I'd be more worried about the bearings than the surface rust.
Would you consider that surface rust any indication of the condition of the bearings?
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Mech 1 twa
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:49 pm

PhotosSecondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Pxl_2035[url=https://servimg.com/view/20334583/68]Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Img_2016[/url hub bearings.
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Mech 1 twa
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 8:53 pm

Maybe? it's pretty much a sealed unit but who knows. Outer can be greased with and tube to reach it inner just a little smear on finger.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 9:18 pm

If, IF, it were mine I would disassemble the DP enough to clean (wire brush) the spring, regrease the collar and moveable face, inspect the ball bearing and regrease the needle bearing (as per Mech1 twa), and check the big bearing in the belt case. Also inspect the clutch shoes and pivots.

Here’s an earlier discussion:

https://www.silverwing600.com/t7766-driven-pulley-assembly-rebuild?highlight=Driven+pulley+spring
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 10:12 pm

Ugh. Tearing that down is way beyond both my level of skill and my limited tools.

Current eBay listings. For $80 I probably should just go ahead and replace the entire assembly with a decent used one:Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? E795a010
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Terry Smith
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09, 2022 10:49 pm

If there's no operational problem at present, I'd just keep riding. Sure looks like surface rust on unprotected steel surfaces only, from condensation in a humid environment. The bearings being coated in grease and behind seals are unlikely to have suffered the same fate. If it bugs you, buy the used part and stash it until you definitely need it. Removal of the clutch is not a big problem if you do want to get to the bearings, I recall just a 14mm bolt and you need to stop the wheel rotating (stick something through the spokes).
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 12:51 am

Terry Smith wrote:
If there's no operational problem at present, I'd just keep riding. Sure looks like surface rust on  unprotected steel surfaces only, from condensation in a humid environment. The bearings being coated in grease and behind seals are unlikely to have suffered the same fate. If it bugs you, buy the used part and stash it until you definitely need it.
Ok, thanks, that’s exactly what I needed to hear.  It does seem to be mostly superficial. I’m not familiar enough with the operation of this assembly to know whether rust on these parts might cause any problems.
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steve_h80
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 1:40 am

If it's running fine I would just wire brush the worst off, run an oily rag over those bits and ride.
If I was feeling enthusiastic I might pull the whole clutch assembly and check the pads etc, but at such low miles it's hardly worth the effort.
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john grinsel
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 8:46 am

I would just follow the oily rag---wipe off. Spray with WD40 and wipe off. Ride, remembering this is old bike....and may go forever, or?
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 8:28 pm

steve_h80 wrote:
If it's running fine I would just wire brush the worst off, run an oily rag over those bits and ride.
john grinsel wrote:
I would just follow the oily rag---wipe off.  Spray with WD40 and wipe off. Ride
Good advice, thanks.

Today I tried something very simple. I soaked paper towels in the Enviro-Rust liquid and cleaned the rusted areas thoroughly. Then I got several towels wet but not drenched to the point of dripping, and wrapped the rusty assembly with them and let it sit several hours.

Before:Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 1158a110

After:
Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Ea2dd410
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 8:48 pm

Genius!

Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 4295ee10
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10, 2022 9:10 pm

Thanks!

Obviously I could only do one half at a time, and the first half I only left on for about two hours and the paper towels were still fairly moist. So I rotated it and reapplied the wet paper towels to sit over night. If the second half turns out better than the first half, I’ll repeat the first half before I close everything up.Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 49c2fe10



The 26g Dr. Pulley sliders and the new GBoost belt went on easily. I did pick up a cheap variator tool off eBay to hold it while I removed then retightened the bolt. The variator tool wasn’t long enough. That’s why I was using the hollow handled hatchet; I didn’t have any short pieces of pipe handy, so I inserted the variator tool into it to hold the tool against the ground. (Yes, the hatchet was a bit bloody still, literally. We processed chickens with it recently😬.)
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BrianInVA
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 14, 2022 8:12 pm

After a weekend of soaking in Enviro-Rust soaked paper towels, I took a wire brush to the rusty areas. It really did clean up decent considering what I started with. I closed the cvt up today and should have the rest of it buttoned up and back on the road tomorrow.Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? 63cbc510
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steve_h80
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 15, 2022 2:14 pm

A good result I would say.
You're now entitled to a celebratory beer or three 🍺
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Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace?   Secondary clutch assembly parts in rusty condition - replace? I_icon_minitime

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