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 Determining Brake percentages

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zrx212
Starkman
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Starkman
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Starkman


Number of posts : 39
Location : Oregon, USA
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Registration date : 2020-02-22

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PostSubject: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2021 6:02 pm

Greetings,

As far as I can tell for my 2006 Silver Wing--can't find anything specific in the Owner's Manual--the left handle is the front brake and the right handle is the rear; is that correct?

However, I'm not sure if there's a sync included with this bike, yet it still seems as if there's a spread between the percentage of the front and rear brakes as I apply either handle or both.

Does anyone have any information on this?

Thanks much,

Keith
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2021 7:04 pm

RH is Front only, actuates two pistons, LH is rear primary and front caliper combined/linked, when pressed hard LH will actuate center piston on front caliper. 

Is always best to use both brakes simultaneously IMO, but experience/road conditions will dictate best action. BTW ABS or not still linked same way, just another layer of safety.
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeWed May 26, 2021 7:48 pm

zrx212 wrote:
RH is Front only, actuates two pistons, LH is rear primary and front caliper combined/linked, when pressed hard LH will actuate center piston on front caliper. 

Is always best to use both brakes simultaneously IMO, but experience/road conditions will dictate best action. BTW ABS or not still linked same way, just another layer of safety.

Well, I just figured out that the LH is primary rear; I put the bike up on the stand, turned the rear tire and found the LH actuated it.

This is good to know because I would be rather astonished if the brakes are reversed from normal motorcycle standards. I practice slow maneuvering drills on my Yamaha 1100, so to switch over to reversed brakes on my Silver Wing would be, at the least, a bit disconcerting!

Oh, and I'm in agreement: use both brakes simultaneously. For sure.

Hey, thanks much,

Keith
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steve_h80
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Number of posts : 788
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 1:12 am

The more I ride the SW, the more I appreciate how well designed and balanced the CBS braking system is on this bike. A little back brake for corners or manoeuvring works fine as it's only braking the rear, grab a left handful and you can feel the front coming into play too and the whole bike slows level.
CBS on my CBF1000 is a pain as it brakes the front too easily causing the 'sit up' feeling if used mid corner.
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Davetech
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 3:40 am

Mine's going for it's 16,000 mile service today (nearly 2,000 miles early). Hope they identify why the brakes are not very good.
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 10:19 am

steve_h80 wrote:
. . . grab a left handful and you can feel the front coming into play too and the whole bike slows level. . . .

Yup, that's what caught my attention. I was trying to figure out if the LH was front or rear, and then it dawned on me, ah, it's synced.

Yes, it's definitely very well balanced. I have, however, worn the clutch system to the point that a new one is probably in order soon; a lot of slow maneuvering practice when I was first learning to ride. When I take off, it shakes, like something isn't aligned. It's not the brakes, and I noticed it more and more as I practiced. Once I get going it's fine.

Thanks.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 11:07 am

I replaced the clutch blocks over winter as they were well worn down. You might not need to, I would suggest pulling the clutch, have a look and give it a good clean.
When I took mine apart there was dust everywhere and nothing moved particularly easily, when you remove the springs the blocks should just flop back, mine creaked and moved under protest.
If you've got somewhere to work, some tools and ample supplies of coffee it's not a difficult job. And if you get stuck put down the hammer, step away, have a beer or two and come back to it another day.
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 11:19 am

steve_h80 wrote:
I replaced the clutch blocks over winter as they were well worn down. You might not need to, I would suggest pulling the clutch, have a look and give it a good clean. . . . If you've got somewhere to work, some tools and ample supplies of coffee it's not a difficult job. And if you get stuck put down the hammer, step away, have a beer or two and come back to it another day.

ha ha...Ha Ha HAHAHAHA!

Let me stop you right there, Steve! I can barely open a can of beer with a can opener much less spell half the tools I'd need to repair anything—as for the coffee, I'm all about that, though. I am so not mechanically inclined!

I'll have to have my mechanic take care of it. I'll have him check the clutch, clean it if necessary and go from there. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 11:34 am

Starkman, not knowing the specifics on your SW, in general the clutch is very durable, most dry clutch scooters could suffer from chatter, caused by clutch glazing from slipping, mostly caused by lazy take offs  and/or heavy traffic driving. There is stuff the operator/non-mechanic can do to somewhat prevent this, is always best to try to engage clutch faster by turning throttle quicker and rolling back as needed, sometimes several agressive take offs during a riding day will keep this in check, some guys like to accelerate for several seconds to aprox 3000 rpm with brakes applied to deglaze clutch, it works but mostly temporary.
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeThu May 27, 2021 11:18 pm

Starkman, I bought my 08 SWing in 2014 from my sister in FL and trailered it back to MN. It had been sitting under a tarp for two years. Once I got it running with some parts and TLC and took it out for its first ride the clutch chattered like yours is doing. Someone suggested doing what zrx212 said about holding the brakes hard and reving it up for a few seconds. I was told to rev it up to around 4000 rpms for about 10 seconds and I did. I took it out for a run and lo and behold it was smoothe. I've never had a problem with it since. When I take off I don't try popping wheelies with it but I don't baby it either and so far so good. I hope this helps.
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeFri May 28, 2021 10:22 am

Okay, so just so I'm clear: rev the engine to 3000-4000 rpm, applying the brakes, but only so much as to engage them, not fully keep the bike from moving, correct?
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeFri May 28, 2021 11:04 am

Starkman wrote:
Okay, so just so I'm clear: rev the engine to 3000-4000 rpm, applying the brakes, but only so much as to engage them, not fully keep the bike from moving, correct?

 You want to apply both brakes hard/securely as reving anywhere past aprox, 2,000 rpm will engage clutch and propel bike forward, alternate way is to place bike front wheel against a wall, or safer way, place on centerstand, apply rear brake(LH) hard and rev engine to 3-4k, etc. Don't recommend using parking brake alone to lock rear wheel, but a combination of rear and parking brake is ok. 
 IAC wheels on the ground method is more effective as there more load and braking power, reving for too long a time will have diminishing results, 5-10 seconds max. IMO.

 IAC standard disclaimer, fairly easy procedures for average rider IMO, but do all this at your own risk or like my Dad use to say "Own it", sorry is just the times we live in, Good Luck.
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeFri May 28, 2021 11:24 am

See, I was thinking that if there were clutch glazing, how does reving the bike while not moving do anything to the clutch to address that problem; how does the glaze get removed when not moving. I guess, though, the clutch is engaged to some degree even when the bike isn't moving.

Anyway, I have enough skill to perform the maneuvers given above, so I'll give it a shot and see what comes from it. (Is serious plumes of smoke and the arrival of the fire department a sign that I might have taken the technique too far? Stay tuned!)
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeFri May 28, 2021 11:43 am

Okay, so I think the technique worked; however, when I reved the engine to 3500+ and held it for a few seconds, it then coughed and I could smell a bit of something. I hope I didn't wreck anything.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeFri May 28, 2021 3:18 pm

Starkman wrote:
Okay, so I think the technique worked; however, when I reved the engine to 3500+ and held it for a few seconds, it then coughed and I could smell a bit of something. I hope I didn't wreck anything.
 You should be good, basically you scuffed/rectified the clutch shoes and bell mating surfaces by a momentary friction increase, it could possibly cause a little clutch burn smell or belt slip if it's too old/stretched. Ride it with somewhat agressive take offs from a dead stop to settle everything in.

 BTW how old is your belt ??
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Starkman
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeMon May 31, 2021 1:26 pm

zrx212 wrote:
 BTW how old is your belt ??

Sorry, took a few days to get back here.

The belt is almost new, so I assume that even if I took a few miles off it, I'll be okay...he said with great hope!
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 05, 2021 7:38 pm

WELL,... I learned something here. Thanks guys. I don't think I have the problem with the clutch you spoke about in the new-to-me SWING but if/when I do, I now know a trick I can try.
Now let me reread that so maybe it will sink into my brain so when I NEED it I will REMEMBER it!!  thumbs up
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 05, 2021 7:46 pm

zrx212, I've learned a lot from your comments. Just wanted to say, 'THANKS'.  Wink
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Determining Brake percentages   Determining Brake percentages I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 05, 2021 9:09 pm

thecruiser wrote:
zrx212, I've learned a lot from your comments. Just wanted to say, 'THANKS'.  Wink
 You're welcome, the reason we come here is to learn, share and enjoy our scooters. IOW have fun  Cool
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