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Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeby Dale N. Yesterday at 3:56 pm

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Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeby Cosmic_Jumper Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:20 pm

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 Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?

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PostSubject: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 6:44 am

Any ideas or thoughts?
Love yours. D
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 6:53 am

Old Design, was not selling in many markets, expensive----smaller displacement was where the market is/was.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:02 am

Not noisy, not cool, not in.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:03 am

So that, like the PC800, it could become a cult bike.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:37 am

Sadly America (and Europe to a lesser degree) was not ready for a "touring scooter". Plus as was stated above the price was way out of line. Egad the MSRP on my 2012 was $9270 USD. There were a lot of bikes with bigger displacement for less money.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:44 am

Whaddya think Glenn, maybe a “touring class” scooter?
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:52 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Whaddya think Glenn, maybe a “touring class” scooter?

I could second that! I really love the touring concept, in fact my Silver Wing has been used many times for multi-day tours. Usually 1000-2000 mile trips and it performs wonderfully, for one-up.

Guess I (and a few on here) were the only ones willing to tour on a scooter rather than an H-D. LOL
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 9:38 am

Adding: I bought 2 new Silverwings---2009 and leftover 2013---riding them each out to 50,000 miles. OK, would be nice if they had 50,000 drive belts. Never warranty claim---ABS trouble on 2013---lite stuck on---local Homda shop fixed, probably related to pick up ring.

I added little or no junk,, seat fine, Givi rack and box, and of course Givi Adjustable Windshield replacing the crappy stock shield.

I like scooter touring, Helix favorite for that---bikes had everything including new Harley factory sidecar outfit on down over the years

The reason there are so many low mileage SilverWings around today----not many really riding, just talking again over the years----Only defects I learned in silverwing---heavy/a little top heavy/rear wheel removal pain/brittle plastic----15,000 mil belt changes=pain/cost. I think performance fine....it is a scooter
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 9:41 am

I don't think it had anything to do with any country not being ready for a touring scooter. When the FJS Silver Wing finally disappeared from the Honda UK range in 2016, the FJS Silver Wing was dated and basically hadn't changed in appearance since it's launch in 2001. It also gained a thirsty reputation based on it's first magazine reviews that stuck, and was regarded as an old man's bike/scooter so it never sold in great numbers.

Then ever stringent Euro emission regulations for new vehicles caught up with the Silver Wing and it's days were numbered. The same regulations also scuppered the also dated Burgman 650.
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TimChambers
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 10:09 am

Plus Honda rationalised its motorcycle and scooter range around the NC 700/750 with the Integra.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 12:51 pm

The PC800 yes they pop up for sale now and again and yes I would put one on my list and all that storage!
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 2:14 pm

I think the range rationalisation is closer to the mark. It's difficult lt to justify the tooling up for a single model these days, the future is modular design that can be used across a series of different bikes / vehicles.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 6:23 pm

When Honda brought out motorcycle fitted with the DCT transmission, over here it meant UK riders with Auto Only Licences who'd previously been limited to twist n' go scooters now could ride the Honda NC700 Integra. That curious looking hybrid motorcycle scooter that replaced the discontinued Silver Wing in the UK and Europe.

I remember from old forum posts at the time, the Integra originally scared off quite a few twist n' go riders because it had open chain drive, and unless they were ex-bikers they knew nothing about chain adjustment and lubrication.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 6:53 pm

2002-2013 is a very long production run for any vehicle. New cars-trucks updated every 4-5 years anymore. Not many huge changes over the long run as sales fell off it's over. I bought a 2013 SW in 2015 deeply discounted a steal for sure.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 7:11 pm

I've also looked at the NC750X(DCT) over here in the US, I was actually in the market for a 2021 model, but was delayed and the SW came along, etc. I tested a 2018 model and it was excellent, only drawbacks IMO was the chain drive and limited storage room.  If it had a belt drive, it would be in my garage today. 

 IMO opinion the SW is a great scooter design overall is just dated, from the standpoint of being a mechanic/tinkerer I love the mostly conventional scooter drivetrain and ease of maintenance, some of these new scooters require diagnostic computers, etc. The SW has built in test/diagnose system, lot more simple. $$$. and parts are cheaper than other brands IME, was not to like ??
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed May 05, 2021 8:32 pm

I've also liked the NC750 DTC or not but low reving engine and lack of power a short coming. Fuel efficient yes but.? Honda has been refining DTC and early one had some issues. Chain will last a bit longer than SW belt if maintained but the mess and adjustments.

If I bought a clutch bike it would be a Suzuki SV650 much more power and a good bike. Suzuki parts are expensive not sure why?

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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu May 06, 2021 5:20 am

DTC? scratch Don't you mean DCT, Dual Clutch Transmission.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu May 06, 2021 7:11 am

Dyslexic Transmission Control possibly?
As someone with mild dyslexia (which I blame on the ITA thing), I can say these things. I thought I'd better get that in before anyone gets snowflake about it.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu May 06, 2021 9:01 am

DCT is just another three letter acronym like ABS, how difficult is it to get it right? The ITA acronym that you mention I haven't a clue, so I had a Search and the list runs into hundreds.

So rather than plod through the list I asked Mrs M who knows about these things, and she says ITA stands for Initial Teaching Alphabet. A method used to teach children in British schools in the Sixties and no longer used.

You learn something new every day. Smile
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu May 06, 2021 6:03 pm

Nobody's perfect you knew what I meant to say. DTC DCT big deal except for you.

ITA Idiot Typing Again.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu May 06, 2021 6:30 pm

Mech 1 twa wrote:
Nobody's perfect you knew what I meant to say. DTC  DCT big deal except for you.

ITA  Idiot Typing Again.  
Amen!
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 27, 2021 9:43 am

Honda now have an even bigger and better scooter: The Honda Forza 750. It looks awesome in my humble opinion!
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 27, 2021 10:04 am

mouka wrote:
Honda now have an even bigger and better scooter: The Honda Forza 750. It looks awesome in my humble opinion!

Sadly...it will probably never come to the US.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2021 8:45 am

GHM-PM wrote:
mouka wrote:
Honda now have an even bigger and better scooter: The Honda Forza 750. It looks awesome in my humble opinion!

Sadly...it will probably never come to the US.

I've looked at the new Honda Forza 750 in a dealers, watched a few YouTube clips and can't help thinking it's a just another version of the NC 700 Integra, the hybrid bike/maxi scooter that replaced the FJS Silver Wing 600 here in 2016. One of the old boys on the York Forza group said pretty much the same at our recent brunch meeting.

Since then we've had the 750 Integra, and the adventure style X-ADV 750. All are very similar looking, have DCT transmission, chain drive, and that big open rear wheel.

In a way it reminds me of the way iPhones and IPads are continuously updated and improved. My Forza 300 which was the new kid in town in 2018 has now made way for the Forza 350.

There must also be the Honda C90 enthusiasts on this side of the Pond wishing they could have the 2021 Honda Trail 125 that's available to you.  Crying or Very sad
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JamieB
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2021 12:44 pm

On a different note, imagine if Yamaha decided to make a modern version of the XT 500 albeit with fuel injection etc, now that would be amazing.

Got to be one of the best looking bikes ever made..
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2021 12:58 pm

I'm not enthralled with the look of that Forza 750 and it's certainly not a 'replacement' for the SW, it's just progress, along with a new breed of riders who have never contemplated two wheels before now and I'm pleased that motorcycling is becoming more 'foremost' in road user's minds. The technology has gone a long way to making riding safer too.

The X-ADV, (which I test rode), Integra and the Forza have all the things I dislike about about modern bike design and none of the things which I love about the SW. If, by some weird twist of fate, I was gifted that Forza 750, I would probably sell it in order to buy a late model SW and take a long-ride holiday with the change! Ride on....
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 28, 2021 9:39 pm

I think Honda is trying to fill the void left by the late big/heavy Burgman 650 with the Forza 750 ??, IMO it lacks two key features of the SW, storage and the "step through" ease. They have plenty of room to have more storage, but went for that mimimized tail section, and has a drive chain, WTFO ??

 Take a close look at the Kymco Ak550 way better in lot's of areas IMO, cheaper and available on both sides of pond.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 1:10 am

JamieB wrote:
On a different note, imagine if Yamaha decided to make a modern version of the XT 500 albeit with fuel injection etc, now that would be amazing.

Got to be one of the best looking bikes ever made..

Have a look at the Mash x-ride 650.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 2:12 am

zrx212 wrote:
I think Honda is trying to fill the void left by the late big/heavy Burgman 650 with the Forza 750 ??, IMO it lacks two key features of the SW, storage and the "step through" ease. They have plenty of room to have more storage, but went for that mimimized tail section, and has a drive chain, WTFO ??

 Take a close look at the Kymco Ak550 way better in lot's of areas IMO, cheaper and available on both sides of pond.

The original FJS Silver Wing was in the Honda UK scooter range until 2016 before it was discontinued along with the Deauville and replaced by the Integra 700. The rest of Europe had the updated SW-T 600 and 400 versions of the Silver Wing from 2009 until they were phased out by the Integra.

The Burgman 650 which was also dated had a facelift in 2013 and that quietly disappeared from showrooms about the same time as the Silver Wing. They'd both been around basically unchanged for years and were considered boring old mens bikes.

As Honda expanded it's range of DCT transmission motorcycles to include sports bikes, adventure bikes, roadsters, and hybrids like the lntegra, the twist n' go Auto Only Licence holders over here no longer had to choose between a Silver Wing and Burgman and I doubt if many apart from older riders mourned the demise of the Silver Wing at all.

Reading forum posts about the Kymco AK550 long before it arrived on our shores it was the TMax community that had the most to say about it calling it a TMax clone. Just like they have in the past about the BMW C600 and C650 Sport, and the SYM TL500. In any twin cylinder sports scooter is a TMax clone to them. Smile

I doubt if many have been sold over this side of the Pond as our Kymco importer is pretty low profile. I have seen two low mileage 2018 AK550’s for sale online this year on my weekly Autotrader read.

There's a bit of US interest in the Kymco AK550 on another forum I occasionally look at, although it seems there's a limited number of AK550’s being imported and a waiting list.

I'm looking to change my Forza 300 later this year and neither the Forza 750 or the Kymco AK550 are on my list.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 7:36 am

As far as new vehicles Here in the US the AK550 is the sole large capacity scooter available. Limited numbers where imported and selling well, really no competition. Kymco has a golden opportunity here IMO.
 
 The runner up is the Burgman 400, just as capable and possibly better quality, but down 12-13hp at similar weight, less tech features and just $700-800 cheaper than Ak. 
 
 I also think Honda is pushing the "NC" concept and dct technology onto other platforms and that's good, is proven and reliable, IMO they are loosing sight of some of the "utalitarian" requirements of a scooter platform.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 1:08 pm

I realized I forgot to mention the BMW 650 scooter offerings here, yes is a good scooter, better than the Forza 750??, really a mute point in the US as Forza is N/A, but just like the Forza 750 the price point puts them out of contention for being and economy/utilitarian scooter. Really don't understand the backwards engineering of using chain final drive on these scooters. A nod to BMW for enclosing chain.
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JamieB
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 3:09 pm

Come on Meldrew, what scoots are on that potential shopping list.?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 3:50 pm

Is not the BMW scooter belt driven? Engine Kymco?
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 29, 2021 5:03 pm

john grinsel wrote:
Is not the BMW scooter belt driven?  Engine Kymco?

The BMW engine was indeed made by Kymco, it did have some early issues, but all resolved now, the final drive is a oil bath chain in a sealed case.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 4:49 am

JamieB wrote:
Come on Meldrew, what scoots are on that potential shopping list.?

I'm exaggerating saying it's a list, To be honest there's only one serious contender that ticks all the boxes and I won't mention it until I've looked at one in a showroom.

There's no dealership for them here in North Yorkshire so there'll be a bit of travelling to do. There's other versions of the same scooter which would be nice if the importer added them to the range .


Last edited by Meldrew on Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 7:10 am

Surely the BMW has belt with CVT? I had new early TMAX with chain final drive...later changed to open belt. TMAX nice scooter, I got rid of mine as the miles piled up----fearing high repair costs.
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 7:32 am

john grinsel wrote:
Surely the BMW has belt with CVT?   I had new early TMAX with chain final drive...later changed to open belt.   TMAX nice scooter, I got rid of mine as the miles piled up----fearing high repair costs.
 It has a CVT belt on RH side of engine, similar to a TMAX or Kymco AK550, here's a pic of BMW.
Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? Bmwcha10
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Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 4:57 pm

I have just read the specs for the 650 GT and the 400 GT;

I read that the 650 is chain drive, the 400 belt drive.


https://bikez.com/motorcycles/bmw_c_650_gt_2018.php

https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/bmw/2019-bmw-c-400-gt-ar183430.html
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 6:04 pm

I had a 2013 bmw c600 sport. Was too damn bmw for my taste. Like my 2013 SilverWing much more. Paul
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 7:21 pm

Well seems like 2021 is the last year for BMW 600 size scooters in the US ??, you can find some 2021 and leftover NOS around at good discounts, not bitting. Some dealers have the new C400 GT available now. MSRP is $8495, but they are sellng around 9-10k ??, in the 400cc range the Burgman 400 still in the Suzuki lineup, sligthly cheaper, more storage and well established, they both have conventional CVT setups, etc. It just a matter of choice. 

 I prefer the Suzuki because maintenance/repairs will be cheaper and BMW likes to complicate things with too much electronic gadgets $$$
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 30, 2021 9:16 pm



 I prefer the Suzuki because maintenance/repairs will be cheaper and BMW likes to complicate things with too much electronic gadgets $$$[/quote] Amen to that!
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PostSubject: Re: Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013?   Why was the Silverwing discontinued in 2013? I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 01, 2021 7:33 am

gustav wrote:


 I prefer the Suzuki because maintenance/repairs will be cheaper and BMW likes to complicate things with too much electronic gadgets $$$
   Amen to that![/quote]

 Very important part of any vehicle purchase, research the maint/repair cost, being a lifelong mechanic helps here, IAC I was also looking at Burg/400 when looking for scooters(I may still get one later), the SW600 appealed to me because CVT and other parts in general are aprox. 50% cheaper than Suzuki/Yamaha, etc.

 "Some" of this new tech. scooters require a lot of knowledge and some special scanners, etc. Buying a extended service/warranty could be smart if your not a mechanically inclined. 
 
 BTW seems like BMW cannot master the TPMS or cam chain tensioners, very common issues on several models. My friends TPMS light is on most of the time on his K1300  scratch
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