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 Body vibrations SW-T 400

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PoohPL1982
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 14
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PostSubject: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 11:24 am

Hi,
I'm trying to fix my problem with body vibrations. When i riding i feel vibrations on feet platform, seat, steering. Now i have original new variator set, belt, clutch. But today i dismounted belt, clutch and variator and when the engine is running vibrations are too. So i'm sure that is from engine. Do you feel the same on your bikes? I checked upper rubbers and both are fine. No damages.
Please write me any message if you have any solutions.

P.S. sorry for my bad english but i try write and talk without google translator.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 11:55 am

Hello PoohPL, your English is just fine. Certainly much better than my Polish.

About the vibrations you are feeling, if understand your post you say that the same vibration happens even when you remove the belt and variator and test run while on the center stand. If that is the case then you should check to insure both spark plugs are working.

You mentioned that you’ve had the Silverwing for 3 years. Is this vibration some which suddenly occurred, or has it gradually developed over time?

Tim
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PoohPL1982
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Number of posts : 14
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 12:08 pm

I didn't felt this vibrations in last season. I don't remember how it was but i'm almost sure that everything was fine. It is my first motorcycle and when i start ride on that i was very exciting🤪.
It looks like "ants" on body. If you know what i mean.
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arskal
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arskal

Number of posts : 53
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 1:30 pm

Hi.

Check engine crankshaft.
Remove variator and listen carefully crankshaft sound while engine running. These russian mechanics find out where is the problem on SW-T400 when engine knocking. I think this knocking cause vibration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrt5wDV7Hvg

On my SW-T600 there is little vibration in 3800rpm while driving but otherwise it goes very smoothly.

Maybe you must check at first throttle body sync, spark plugs and air filter.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 11, 2020 1:58 pm

I have not this horizontal move of crankshaft. Spark plugs are almost new and the air filter i changed one month ago.

EDIT:
Today i will tried to check a valve clearance but when i turned the engine i saw that the timing marks are on position, but crankshaft mark are wrongBody vibrations SW-T 400 20200612
Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200611
Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200610
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Loosemarbles
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 1:16 pm

It would be amazing if the engine was running with the timings marks so far out of alignment. But who knows? some engines are more forgiving.

I would start by getting those timing marks lined up correctly.

(I remember some old ford car engines which would run (badly) with the plug leads connected in any random order!)
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arskal
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arskal

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 1:38 pm

Hmm.. interesting.

Check cam chain tensioner and rotate the engine counter clockvise of the side of the variator and check align again.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 2:50 pm

I have an info that the time chain is to long and i have to change this. I have 64 thousands kilometers. So maybe it's true. Nobody open the head cover before me because original seal was on the half circle of countershaft.
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arskal
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arskal

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 3:58 pm

Okay.

I recommend to change also the chain tensioner. If you use old tensioner you need tensioner tool for removing. Remove a nut and turn the tensioner shaft in clockwise ja lock it to position. This tool can easily made from 1mm thickness piece of metal or made it from screw driver. Check this video.

https://youtu.be/XG6c_uhrVOw?t=50

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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Terry Smith

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 6:42 pm

The timing between the crank and cams is determined by the tight chain run on the tension side of the chain running down from exhaust cam to the crank. The tensioner is on the other chain run so it affects tension but not timing. It is pretty common for the cam chain to stretch over time and this causes the cam timing to start to lag slightly against the crank and give the timing mark difference that you have shown in th photos. VTR1000's certainly do the same thing.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 12, 2020 11:04 pm

Ok. But this situation can cause the vibrations of body? I didn't find more problems
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 13, 2020 12:01 pm

arskal wrote:
Okay.

I recommend to change also the chain tensioner. If you use old tensioner you need tensioner tool for removing. Remove a nut and turn the tensioner shaft in clockwise ja lock it to position. This tool can easily made from 1mm thickness piece of metal or made it from screw driver. Check this video.



But all what he did is, he made a tensioner stronger.

Edit:
So today i disassembled the chain, I try to explain what i saw. Service manual told me that when i want to mounted intake camshaft and exhaust camshaft they must be set like in the picture from manual. Then marks are on the cylinder head level.

But in my engine is a little bit difference. If i set the sprocket on the marks then cams lobes are not facing in. my picture shows what i mean
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 13, 2020 8:38 pm

You are dealing with a four stroke engine and that means the cams run at half the speed of the crank (the cams do one revolution for every two of the crank). If you rotate your crank one full revolution you will be able to get the cam lobes facing in like the manual.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 3:06 am

Ok. But this it's when the chain is mounted. But now i have the chain disassembled. So the valves are closed and the pistons are in the highest position.Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200613

And for what is mark F on the flywheel?

Ok, so today i made a recognize of timing. When the mark T is on correct place, then cylinder "1" is in the compression mode and cylinder "2" is in the suction mode. But the cam lobes of cylinder "2" are in something between open intake and close exhaust. So when we try to the chain mounting it is nessesary to set the cams on the marks with cylinder head level. Because of course we can't have all valves close in one time. It was my mistake, but the service manual is not exact with this.

I hope it is clean for you what i want to say.



Last edited by PoohPL1982 on Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Smith
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Terry Smith

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 5:26 pm

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are asking here.

If the chain is out (I assume you mean removed) then there is no connection between the crank and cams so the cams can be in any orientation.

When the cams are reinstalled the crank should be on the T mark and the IN and EX marks aligned with the camcover surface and pointing inwards along with the #1 cam lobes. If you have removed the cam sprockets from the cams then these could be rotated 180 degrees so the IN and EX marks don't align with the #1 cam lobes.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 5:33 pm

I was thinkin that something is wrong with my cams, because the manual shows something different on picture. I know the sings have to be on the cylinder head surface. But i was thinking that the #2 cam lobes should be on 180 degrees rotated to #1, but they aren't.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 6:00 pm

PoohPL1982 wrote:

And for what is mark F on the flywheel?

F mark is for ignition timing, checked with a stroboscope while the engine is running
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 6:05 pm

Ok. It is clear. Thanks
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 6:31 pm

As far as I can tell, the #1 cylinder is the left side so furtherest from the cam sprockets. I was expecting the cylinder numbering to be shown somewhere on the service manual but I'm either having a senior moment or Honda are keeping this a secret.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 14, 2020 9:23 pm

I think you are going too far with all these engine issues.  If it's never been apart and timing chain is very close than a little wear is normal. Valve clearance check is good.

Front plastics do vibrate mostly on acceleration mine does.  Some are more sensitive to it and it's noisy sometimes.   Mine was getting worse found all the windshield screws were loose repaired that but still some vibration from front body parts.

That engine is in time. There are two a balance shafts in SW engine but it's gear driven from crank and unless it's been apart i don't see an issue.  ??
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 3:11 am

"As far as I can tell, the #1 cylinder is the left side so furtherest from the cam sprockets. "

I'm not sure of that. My three honda cars has always #1 cylinder close of cam sprockets.
But. Manual sad that when the chain was disassembled first we set the signs facing together. On my cams it's the cylinder close to chain. So for me this cylinder is #1
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 5:55 am

Honda bikes always number cylinders from left to right, so 1 is always the left cylinder, and left is as seen by the rider.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 6:12 am

Your picture ........

Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200610

...it is not clear to me if that is two strokes (II) or a stroke & a timing mark (IT) ?

Stroke & timing mark are for valve timing

While

Two strokes are for counter balance timing

The different marks are 270 degrees apart (which is 1 1/2 turns of the crankshaft)

Possibly you are trying ti do valve timing on the wrong set of marks ?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 6:31 am

Mech 1 twa wrote:
I think you are going too far with all these engine issues.  If it's never been apart and timing chain is very close than a little wear is normal. Valve clearance check is good.

Front plastics do vibrate mostly on acceleration mine does.  Some are more sensitive to it and it's noisy sometimes.   Mine was getting worse found all the windshield screws were loose repaired that but still some vibration from front body parts.

That engine is in time. There are two a balance shafts in SW engine but it's gear driven from crank and unless it's been apart i don't see an issue.  ??

I tend to agree bud, mine had rattles from the screen & the right hand 'glove box'
I seem to recall that some time ago a member systematicly taped panel joints until the noise disappeared, thus identifying where the noise was coming from.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 6:34 am

Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200615Body vibrations SW-T 400 20200616

Maybe this pictures explain how the flywheel sings looks. I think that my IT is -| | ( T on the right side and | ). So i'm sure that i try to adjust the valves correct.

Quote :
I tend to agree bud, mine had rattles from the screen & the right hand 'glove box'
I seem to recall that some time ago a member systematicly taped panel joints until the noise disappeared, thus identifying where the noise was coming from.

But i have not any noises. Only vibrations (seat, feet stands and steering)
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 7:26 am

I found the plastic on SilverWings not so good---both of mine had lots of funny noises----FIX I took lots of little stainless sheet metal screws, drilled small pin holes, put the self tapping screws in and noises would go away

Never real shakes from engines or trouble.
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Loosemarbles
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 1:26 pm

With respect, I think you're reading too much into this.

Mine's a 2001 model and I know that the fairing above the headlight rattles when the engine is cold. I get a slight 'clatter' from the CVT at motorway speeds, I think the ramp plate is a bit worn.

The plastic fairing rattles because a previous owner broke the lugs off. The CVT has 'clattered' for the last 16,000 miles and seems fine. My SW vibrates under various conditions.

It may be normal?
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efinglada
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 5:39 pm

When I bought my SW last february some lugs were missing in the left panel, and it rattled. I applied silicon in the joint between the side panel and the glove box panel, and secured them tight overnight with rubber bands. Now they are bonded and silent
To remove a panel you'll just need to run a cutter along the joint
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 15, 2020 6:35 pm

efinglada wrote:
When I bought my SW last february some lugs were missing in the left panel, and it rattled. I applied silicon in the joint between the side panel and the glove box panel, and secured them tight overnight with rubber bands. Now they are bonded and silent
To remove a panel you'll just need to run a cutter along the joint

You are a bad, bad person for suggesting this. The previous owner of my Swing broke MOST of the securing lugs and the used silicone to fit ALL of the top fairing and skirt panels. I hate him! Don't be like him!

(sorry; it's your bike, do as you please). Razz

There seems to be plenty of foam blocks that should be stuck to various parts of the bike for vibration control; if these have fallen off with age then more vibration is natural.
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efinglada
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 16, 2020 12:55 am

Mine had only one or two lugs missing, not a general problem
Definitely is not the solution for you
Rgds
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2020 9:43 am

So, everything is done. Timing id ok and engine works fine. But vibrations are still. I think that it must be like this.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 21, 2020 12:42 pm

So now that you’ve determined that the rattling and vibrations is not due to a “worst case scenario” why not try what The Bern suggested. Tape all the panel joints, ride round and gradually remove maybe even replace those taped joints to see what / where the noise comes from.

It just might be due to broken tabs on the body panels.
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PoohPL1982
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PostSubject: Re: Body vibrations SW-T 400   Body vibrations SW-T 400 I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 23, 2020 2:07 pm

But, when i tested the vibratios that is even when plastic panels are disassembled. Side panels, seta, rear panel. So i'm sure that is not from panels.
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