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» Dealer rebuilding 2006 SWing forks says the fork pipes are “scored”?
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Osprey
The Bern
hondos
sc00ter
8 posters
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
Location : Northern NH
Points : 1556
Registration date : 2018-06-30

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PostSubject: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2019 11:11 am

I've been reading tips and maintenance until my eyes are buggered.  So, a new post for a simple specific answer.

My front forks are bottoming out.  There are no leaks.  Dust seal is in great shape.  Pipe and case are clean, except dust ring where pipe shows travel "marks" as I call them.  The "top mark" is in same spot at top end for both sides.

My guess is that 2008 just needs oil change and whatever parts under normal wear should be replaced..  

I plan to have my local Honda Guru change out the brake pads and service the forks.  I'd like to order parts and have them on hand for him.

Thanks for any guidance/help anyone would want to provide.

-- I bought the bike last year.  It has 52,000 miles on it.  Most of them road trip miles.  Previous owner preferred not to be disclosed.  I can tell he took pretty good care of it.  -- clean, runs and rides well, obviously maintained oil, plugs, filter, even drive belt per manual.  (Manual came with bike with all service intervals filled in.)

p.s.  The only reason he sold it was to buy a "new" one.
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sc00ter
Super Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 224
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2019 6:13 pm

I will rummage thru the garage and see if I still have the parts receipt when I rebuilt my wife's Swing forks. I know you have to beat the crap out of them to "loosen" them because you cant lock them from the inside. Im on Cheap Cycle Parts diagram for:
Part 21 (10x25 bolt) takes the beating. Replaced.
Part 20 washers were corroded. Replaced.
Part 11 Piece, oil lock. One got damaged from beating.
Part 8 Bush, Slider Slight wear, replaced.
Part 24 O-ring (31.7x3.5) Replaced.
Part 10 Brush, Guide. Part of wiper. Replaced.
Part 17 Kit. Top seal get "pressed" in. Grease it!
This is off the top of head. I just know you have to beat the crap out of it and use a super heavy duty impact wrench to "open" the forks up for servicing/rebuild. Dumb(ish) design that you cant hold the inner piston from turning. Will still look for the receipt.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2019 6:40 pm

Over my bike ownership, i have rebuilt many sets of forks. I would start off by checking the Spring to see if it is within Manufacture Speck. A bike with 50K miles on it may have springs (Even New springs can be to short slightly and need to have as much SAG removed as possible with shims) with some SAG, SAG is the amount of drop the fork/Bike has under No Load, from the top of the extended shock travel, then there is SAG while sitting on the bike, Both types of suspension SAG need to be removed as Much as Possible, as SAG reduces the amount of suspension travel, and make for too soft of a suspension that is sloppy at full extension if you have 1.0" of SAG that is 1.0" less of suspension travel you have reducing you overall travel by the amount of fork SAG. 1.0" is a LOT!! if that is the case see if the Spring is within Manufacturers Speck. I usually see how much sag is in a particular Bike, (every bikes SAG measurement will be different), Then I get some shims, and see how Many I can Put on top of each spring, and still be able to get the Fork Caps back on.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
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Mech 1 twa


Number of posts : 1245
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 11, 2019 8:06 pm

Best to leave any internal fork rebuilds to someone with tools and experience.

I'd start with some heavier oil after flushing all the old oil . Honda oil is rated an 8wt but is closer to most 10w oils out there. I have Hyper Pro springs but didn't use their 20w from kit instead tried Bel-Ray 15w worked okay. Changed it last month to Torco 15w and like this oil much better not as harsh a ride it's a good oil, high viscosity index. VI means flows at both high and low temps about the same without thinning much.

Springs get worn and compress with age. If you have the $ I'd try Hyper Pro springs no regrets for me.

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The Bern
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
The Bern


Number of posts : 899
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Registration date : 2014-11-20

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2019 6:05 am

What Mech 1 said ^^^ Oil change is deffo the best start point & most times the only thing needed, sadly very few riders change fork oil during ownership & it like any other oil 'breaks down' over time
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sc00ter
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Number of posts : 224
Location : Norfolk, VA
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Registration date : 2018-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2019 10:55 am

Yes, you should not have to rebuild the whole fork, just change the fluid. I had a leaking fork seal and decided to do both. And I obviously didnt think that some parts would get damaged from the bashing required to break them apart. Trust me, if the seal wasn't leaking I never would have broken them apart.
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
Location : Northern NH
Points : 1556
Registration date : 2018-06-30

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Okay, Guys.

Thanks so much for Info.  -- I'm going for the oil change and will look for Torco 15w and have my mechanic test the springs just in case.  He can decide if that is necessary.  That would be something for another time.

Our Honda guru up here in the North Country is the go to guy for Honda with bike troubles that baffle other owners and their mechanics, even Honda certified ones.  I'm sure he will be able to handle my bike just fine.  

I do have to say that you guys who have the knowledge and experience to dig in and fix anything on the Swing is great.  I can do the basics but that's about it.  

So sorry for you scOOter re: learning what gets damage when bashing things.
Real bummer. I'll remember that the next time I think about bashing something to get it apart.

Anywho, thanks again!  Ya'll are very kind and helpful. cheers
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The Bern
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
The Bern


Number of posts : 899
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2019 6:16 pm

Spring free length is 331.4mm (13.03") service limit is 325mm (12.8")
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSun May 12, 2019 6:21 pm

got it. thanks - The Bern
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
Location : Northern NH
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Registration date : 2018-06-30

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeMon May 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Decided to take a bit more advice and go ahead with replacing springs. I'll stick with oem though.

I'm plan to order parts from www.partzilla.com, unless you guys direct me toward another company.

Thanks again.
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
Location : Northern NH
Points : 1556
Registration date : 2018-06-30

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeThu May 16, 2019 11:32 am

I am ordering the torco 15w synthetic VI fork oil. How much should I purchase?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeThu May 16, 2019 12:43 pm

~10.8 oz in each leg. 1 qt will be more than enough.
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Osprey
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 113
Location : Northern NH
Points : 1556
Registration date : 2018-06-30

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeThu May 16, 2019 3:15 pm

Thank you Cosmic_Jumper!
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cello33
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PostSubject: report back   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeFri May 17, 2019 4:23 pm

Be interest in the fedback with 15w oil, I used some 10w motul and it improved the front forks but maybe with hindsight should have used 12.5-15w.

There was also some debate on the height of the oil/amount of oil. I know the amount of oil i used looked to be too much according to the manual but had no problems in 6 months and it has reduced the bottoming out.

No need to to take the fairing off either so just be careful with the pinch bolts and you should have it done in less then 2 hours.


Please report back on the amount of oil type , weight and what difference it has made ......prob need a spacer in the top of the leg too.....
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
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Mech 1 twa


Number of posts : 1245
Location : Allentown PA.
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Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeFri May 17, 2019 8:20 pm

Higher oil level stiffens fork when compressed. More oil less air inside fork. That air has less space to compress and pressure rises.

Spacer compress spring more raising bike but doesn't change spring travel. Oil is difficult to select. You can mix different oil weights to get desired viscosity just use the same brand. 10w 50-50 with a 15w will give a 12.5w
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Lost it
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 136
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Registration date : 2019-05-13

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PostSubject: Oops. Double post   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 18, 2019 4:04 am

Repeat post


Last edited by Lost it on Sat May 18, 2019 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Posted twice, thought it was that good.)
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Lost it
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 136
Age : 65
Location : Hayling Island UK
Points : 1252
Registration date : 2019-05-13

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PostSubject: Re: Front Fork   Front Fork I_icon_minitimeSat May 18, 2019 4:09 am

hondos wrote:
Over my bike ownership, i have rebuilt many sets of forks. I would start off by checking the Spring to see if it is within Manufacture Speck. A bike with 50K miles on it may have springs (Even New springs can be to short slightly and need to have as much SAG removed as possible with shims) with some SAG, SAG is the amount of drop the fork/Bike has under No Load, from the top of the extended shock travel, then there is SAG while sitting on the bike, Both types of suspension SAG need to be removed as Much as Possible, as SAG reduces the amount of suspension travel, and make for too soft of a suspension that is sloppy at full extension if you have 1.0" of SAG that is 1.0" less of suspension travel you have reducing you overall travel by the amount of fork SAG. 1.0" is a LOT!! if that is the case see if the Spring is within Manufacturers Speck. I usually see how much sag is in a particular Bike, (every bikes SAG measurement will be different), Then I get some shims, and see how Many I can Put on top of each spring, and still be able to get the Fork Caps back on.

Oh dear. Nope. Sorry but that is wrong.

You need to measure the fork length at full extension, then with the bike sat with no rider, then with the rider on it. You should aim for at least a quarter of that suspension movement to be "used" when the rider is sat on the bike. The wheel has to go into dips as well as deal with bumps in the other direction. If you remove all of this "sag" with shims the bike will not be able to respond to dips without topping out the forks. And that will make the bike very unstable indeed. As well as anything else, you will be relying on the tyre only to provide suspension in pot holes.

By all means use shims to get to this state, having up to a third of the travel used when the bike is off it's stand with rider seated, but do not put so many in that the bike has no "bounce" upward travel on the forks when you are sat on it.

Because: The trail will be outside the manufacturers spec. The tyre contact patch will be in a different place. The caster will be dynamically altered when you turn and it will probably make the bike very sensitive to any weght carried behind the rider.

Topping out is when the fork cannot extend any further, it's what you are doing when you do a "wheely" on a bike. I'd suggest wheelies on a Wing would be a bad thing.

You will soon start to hurt.[/quote]
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