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 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe

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john grinsel
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john grinsel

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PostSubject: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Sun May 20, 2018 11:41 am

Honda is offering 2018 new Forza for Europe and I would hope it gets to US/N. America for 2019...my mind is SilverWing is old/aging, some people either like or need new machines.

Hope price would be around $5000 or at Yamaha XMAX rates. Big improvements I see are electric windshield/heated grips? Thai made? which is no problem for me, My Thai made CB300F @12,000 miles=no troubles and fine performance.

Fact: big scooter market is near dead in US---Honda stilll has new 2013 SilverWings, the are plenty of leftover Suzukis both 400 and 650's. Honda being careful may not enter US market with big scooter for 2019. I think Honda still has leftover Forza's.

I plan on getting new scooter next year, the Forza gives me some hope for Honda.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Sun May 20, 2018 1:50 pm

I've just bought a Cruisym 300 scooter, made in Taiwan. I looked at all the write ups and pictorials on You tube. After visiting a few dealers that had them in stock and sitting on one ( they would not allow a test ride on one) I felt it was very similar to the Silverwing. I took the plunge and bought one. I took delivery of it last Wednesday. First impressions are very good, seat height very slightly higher than Silverwing. All needs to be broken in, so keeping speed down to fifty MPH for now, I had a few runs on it and done just over 450km ( all dials, speedo, rev counter in KM) I was looking for something similar to the Wing but, a bit lighter. 300cc engine is very responsive and first tank of fuel I averaged 88 MPG. Screen has two positions and the higher one is ideal for me ,I can see just over it. I bought it as a second bike for shorter journeys and to keep my mileage down on the Silverwing, ( it will be four years old in July and I have 3,7560mls on it).
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Chris Olson
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Chris Olson

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Sun May 20, 2018 11:47 pm

john grinsel wrote:

Fact: big scooter market is near dead in US---Honda stilll has new 2013 SilverWings, the are plenty of leftover Suzukis both 400 and 650's.  Honda being careful may not enter US market with big scooter for 2019.  I think Honda still has leftover Forza's.

The entire motorcycle business is hurting in the US. The younger generation is not interested in them, they have gotten too expensive, insurance has gotten too expensive, and you can now buy cars that get better gas mileage than a lot of motorcycles.

Honda seems to have gone out of their way to design a lot of weird bikes in the last few years, like the NM4, to attract younger riders. And then they blew a big wad of cash on re-engineering the Goldwing which is a dead-end market. Sure, they'll sell a few, but Harley-Davidson owns the heavy weight tourer market and Honda is not going to displace H-D with a re-designed plastic pig with a flat-six.

The writing was on the wall when Honda closed the Marysville motorcycle plant and moved back to Japan. Honda built Goldwings and several other models at the Marysville plant for 30 years and they were once king. H-D made a comeback starting in 1984 and by the mid 2000's Honda had three-year old models sitting on showroom floors than never sold. And it wasn't only the Silver Wing. Our local dealer had two Goldwings sitting on the floor that were two years old and couldn't give them away. Finally got rid of them on dealer trades and they mostly survive on selling ATV's and generators now.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Mon May 21, 2018 3:10 pm

Old Limey wrote:
I've just bought a Cruisym 300 scooter, made in Taiwan. I looked at all the write ups and pictorials on You tube. After visiting a few dealers that had them in stock and sitting on one ( they would not allow a test ride on one) I felt it was very similar to the Silverwing. I took the plunge and bought one. I took delivery of it last Wednesday. First impressions are very good, seat height very slightly higher than Silverwing. All needs to be broken in, so keeping speed down to fifty MPH for now, I had a few runs on it and done just over 450km ( all dials, speedo, rev counter in KM) I was looking for something similar to the Wing but, a bit lighter. 300cc engine is very responsive and first  tank of fuel I averaged 88 MPG. Screen has two positions and the higher one is ideal for me ,I can see just over it. I bought it as a second bike for shorter journeys and to keep my mileage down on the Silverwing, ( it will be four years old in July and I have 3,7560mls on it).

Old Limey, thanks for Cruisym 300 info. Please drop info here as you ride it. Good to know future direction after (sadly) some of us leave Silver Wing. For this old fart, maybe Swing is my last bike, even though my hubris motivates me to look at so many other possibilities.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am

I understand that H-D is having problems of its own... Bike sales are down, their clothing and merchandise are helping to keep them profitable. Most of the Jap bike manufacturers have branched out into other areas and are bringing in dosh that way. ATVs, UTVs and personal water craft all help. I think the Goldwing will continue to sell as the market is large but we shall see. Sadly scooters have never scored big in the US but geography will point out why. We have some urban areas but also VAST areas of miles and miles, so little scooters have limited use here.

I believe part of the Silver Wing decline was the price point. My God, the MSRP on my 2012 was $9270. USD! That puts it in a price class with other real motorcycles and some nice ones at that.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 2:00 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
I understand that H-D is having problems of its own... Bike sales are down, their clothing and merchandise are helping to keep them profitable.  Most of the Jap bike manufacturers have branched out into other areas and are bringing in dosh that way. ATVs, UTVs and personal water craft all help. I think the Goldwing will continue to sell as the market is large but we shall see. Sadly scooters have never scored big in the US but geography will point out why. We have some urban areas but also VAST areas of miles and miles, so little scooters have limited use here.

I believe part of the Silver Wing decline was the price point. My God, the MSRP on my 2012 was $9270. USD! That puts it in a price class with other real motorcycles and some nice ones at that.

Glen, You must mean Japanese bikes.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 3:32 pm

I don't know the reasons for decline in Sales in US. Surely costs associated with bikes//big scooters has alot to do with it.

Experience from recent 2700 mile, 13 state trip----no big scooters seen or ridden, Gold Wing thing might be over... none seen solo! Only people riding were HD riders, even in rain.....in groups/Haloween costumes/lots of noise. It seems GoldWing riders may have gotten too old/fat---those I saw were trikes on trailers!

Adventure bikes I saw were on freeway, having their adventures in straight line, no dirt.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 7:45 pm

I would never have purchased a SW for $9200. but i still wanted one. Came real late to buying one but have no regrets great ride.
2008 crash put a big hit on motorcycle sales but its coming back. Youth of today and past( like us) will always seek adventure but $$$ is the issue. Smaller bikes are cheaper and less to insure for them. Market is shifting to smaller stuff.

Goldwing production shifted to Japan but I'm sure Marysville is still making ATVs and cars for sure.

H-D has their own issues. $$$

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Chris Olson
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 8:35 pm

H-D's customer base is aging, so they're having trouble selling bikes. Polaris provided some competition in the Big Twin market with the Indian. But that market is fading.

It's definitely the cost of new bikes. 20 or 30 years ago people bought them because they were cheap transportation, besides being fun to ride. They are now one of the most expensive forms of transportation. The reasons quoted by the analysts that the younger generation is no longer interested in motorcycles is many. But the days I bought my first Suzuki GT380 brand new for $899 is gone. The price of motorcycles has increased higher percentage-wise over the last 30-40 years than income.

Who else besides me thinks it's absolutely ridiculous for a new Goldwing or Harley Ultra to cost $28,000?

The Silver Wing is far from DOA. My wife was able to get a brand new one yet (in the US) with only 2 miles on it. Dealer in central Wisconsin had it in stock yet. It may not appeal to the masses anymore, but my wife likes it, and Suzuki has managed to keep the Burgman alive. Honda dropped the ball on maxi-scoots and put all their eggs into the CTX basket and re-engineering the Goldwing. For once, Big Red got out-marketed and out-engineered by the competition. Honda was once king in the heyday. Harley kicked their butt to the curb in luxury heavyweights. And Suzuki kicked their butt to the curb in luxury light-weights.
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GHM-PM
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GHM-PM

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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 9:38 pm

Does anyone else think there is something wrong with a big luxo barge like Goldwing, H-D Ultra or big BMW costing 25-30K? Granted these are the top of the line bikes with lots of goodies BUT when you can buy a car with automatic, air conditioning etc. AND get better fuel economy for less money there is a problem. Bikes translate into fun but a car is more practical so for young family types so...

Another factor is that so many of the young people can't drive a stick shift anymore. Probably why Honda put the DCT on the Goldwing. But again the price point is ridiculous.
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Chris Olson
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: 2018 Honda Forza...at least for Europe   Tue May 22, 2018 10:07 pm

Mech 1 twa wrote:

H-D has their own issues.   $$$

Yeah. That's all a matter of perspective. H-D posts a slow 4th quarter for 2017 and announce they're going to close a plant to cut costs due to forcasts of reduced bike sales, and all the analysts go ape - Harley is losing it, etc..

Big deal. End of season, start of new model year. New strategy to stay profitable.

When you own over 50% of the total motorcycle market and turn earnings of $1.03 per share on sales of $3.6 billion for the first quarter this year, they are still the monster in the industry and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Harley-Davidson has marketing and design dept's second to none. They know what the people who have the money to spend want, and they deliver it. They actually go out and talk to their customers, listen to what they want, then go home and build it.

By contrast, Honda's marketing is almost non-existent. Do you think even for one instant that Honda went out and asked their customers what they wanted when they designed that NM4 Bat Bike? Or actually asked when they decided to discontinue the SW in the US? Of course not. They're Honda. They don't do marketing to sell Silver Wings, or even do Test Rides like Harley does that make people WANT after they try it. Instead they build a Bat Bike and re-engineer a plastic luxury boat just because they can, and it makes for good Power Point presentations at their corporate meetings.

Despite the fact that Honda builds high quality products, they have long been one of the worst companies on earth for actually listening to what their customer base wants. You can try this yourself - write a letter to American Honda with a product suggestion or similar and send it. You will never get an answer back. I know because me and my wife have done it. You can write a letter to Harley-Davidson with the same content related to their products, and you will get a reply back within a week, signed in ink by a real person. And they will contact their local dealer, and the sales person at the dealership will call you to discuss your concern or suggestion, and invite you to stop in and visit in person.
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