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 cranking but not starting!! Help!!

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The Scootist
DennisB
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PostSubject: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 13, 2009 12:41 pm

My 2001 fjs 600 , has decided overnight that it dont want to play anymorejavascript:emoticonp('Sad') ,apart from developing a rear puncture, it turns over ,spark at the plugs , fuel at the injectors, fresh fuel(twice!),cant see anything untoward on the surface of things, but although now and then it trys to fire it wont fire up, also after cranking the engine , i have taken the plugs out and they are damp with fuel, so its almost like its flooding,

any ideas!!!(i am fairly new to bikes so be gentle with me on the tech jargon please!!)

Wade Sad
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 13, 2009 1:50 pm

Hi Wade,

First....Welcome to the forum.

Just an idea...Have you checked your air filter unit to see if it needs replacing or cleaning if it's a K&N.

Do a search for JeffRs air filter maintenance document if you don't know how to do that. cranking but not starting!! Help!! Icon_sunny


Last edited by DennisB on Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Scootist
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 13, 2009 2:43 pm

It sounds like it has fuel and it is sparking, so are they arriving at the right place at the right time?
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 13, 2009 7:17 pm

This could lead to a can of worms.
It may be an idea to have the ECU and injector system checked out.
As Scootist says, it could be a timing problem.
Have you pressure cleaned this at anytime?

One of the oddest problems I have had with a motor was a single cyl mower which had a tiny piece of carbon which must have floated off the piston or head jammed in the inlet valve seat. That took me hours to find.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 14, 2009 12:39 am

Try sticking in a couple of new plugs, often small engines won't want to start with flooded plugs even after you dry them out.
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 12:05 pm

New plugs were going to be my next step, had'nt touched the bike since friday , its just sat there looking sad in bits on my driveway, I just gave it one more try today and it fired up although a bit reluctantly and lumpy misfiring which cleared after a couple of minutes , so gonna go into town tommorrow order some leads and plugs , and get a new tyre fitted ,fingers crossed!!, thanks for your help,
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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 17, 2009 4:55 am

I once had a similar problem, a month or two after first getting my S'wing.... I think it was only firing on one cylinder.....

Eventually got it to my local Honda Dealer who also did a full service.... The problem was the leads & bad contacts, they had jiggled loose..... Easily fixed.. fine ever since

Good luck with yours!
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 10:22 am

My 2002 finally got to where it wouldn't start. You could smell fuel.

Mine ended up needing a fuel pressure regulator, and if this goes out your EFI light won't light (why not I have no idea)



Joe
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 2:14 pm

Hey Joe,

Thanks for getting back with us on what you found out about your scoot. The fuel pressure regulator is just one of those things that's hard to determine unless you have the correct tool.

If any of you are interested, here's a pressure gage that would work to determine the fuel pressure in the FI system on the scoot.

294 kPa (3.0 kgf/cm2, 43 psi) at engine Idle http://djvmerchandise.com/pro1355108.html

cranking but not starting!! Help!! ACTCP7838
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PostSubject: Fuel pressure regulator   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:20 pm

I had this same problem on my 2002 S'wing. Cold it would start normally but warm you had to start it with an open throttle just like a flooded carbureted scooter. Once running, it ran normally with the exception of idling, it would sometimes stall.
This problem began after running Sea Foam through the scooter. I ran several different fuel system cleaners over a period of about 8k miles but the problem never was eliminated. I heard, on other forums about this problem being caused by the fuel pressure regulator so I took a chance and ordered one from Bike Bandit. When it came in I got the Honda service manual out and wow, it even says drain the cooling system to get to this little component. I decided to just dig in and see. After removing the seat and the plastic cover below the seat there the fuel pressure regulator was! This component can be replaced without any problems without removing all that the Honda manual details. Just be sure to back up the fuel rail when loosening or tightening the regulator. This cured all problems and has been running flawlessly ever since.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:29 pm

Hi sooterseats,

Welcome to the forum.

Alot of people here use Sea Foam from time to time with positive effects on their scooters fuel systems.

Do you think using sea foam was the cause of the problem or do you think the pressure regulator was just going bad?

How much did the P.R. cost you?
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:33 pm

My bike had sat for a while before I began using it regularly again. The part has some diaphragm in it, so in my case it had rotted. Mine gradually got worse and worse. Starting cold, then eventually being very hard to keep running then it would shut off. You'd have to wait a day before it would start again, then more quickly it would stall out and that would be it. Finally it just wouldn't start, period.

Since there are now several people who I know of who have had to replace this, and they all seem to have been on an 02, that must be age related, and I suspect we will learn what other parts/pieces on our Swings are susceptible bo breakdown as the years go by.

Joe
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:40 pm

What I really suspect is that the Sea Foam dislodged some crud and it either stuck in the fuel pressure regulator's valving or even damaged the valve and seat in the regulator rendering it ineffective at low flow rates. Just a guess since I never tore into the old regulator to see.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:45 pm

flaboye wrote:
My bike had sat for a while before I began using it regularly again. The part has some diaphragm in it, so in my case it had rotted. Mine gradually got worse and worse. Starting cold, then eventually being very hard to keep running then it would shut off. You'd have to wait a day before it would start again, then more quickly it would stall out and that would be it. Finally it just wouldn't start, period.

Since there are now several people who I know of who have had to replace this, and they all seem to have been on an 02, that must be age related, and I suspect we will learn what other parts/pieces on our Swings are susceptible bo breakdown as the years go by.

It may not be just age related ... it could be the new ethanol additive which does more damage to the fuel systems. The ethanol is rotting gas lines and certain types of gas tanks (fiberglass). As time goes I think you will find some compounds in the fuel systems will not last at all ... and I am sure we will find more problems with the ethanol over the long term.
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PostSubject: Re: cranking but not starting!! Help!!   cranking but not starting!! Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 3:49 pm

It could be that too. It sat for about 4 years, which was pre-ethanol, could be it didn't care for the ethanol and was compromised somewhat anyway due to it having sat so long. I didn't tear the old one apart to
gander it, kind of wish I had. I pretty much was accepting of the fact
it having sat so long that the regulator had a problem, and went on with
life.

Joe
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