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 My FI Light came on

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Old Limey
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PostSubject: My FI Light came on   Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:34

I was about 2mls out from home on a ride out on Saturday, when the FI light came on for about 3 seconds and the bike missed a couple of beats, before picking up again. I hoped this was a little glitch . However about 40mls further on going round a bend at a slight angle the light flickered again for a second or two. When i got were i was going i checked the handbook and it said Fuel Injetion problem. Nothing happened again whilst i was out and on looking at the workshop manual it appears a whole series of blinks and monitoring equipment might be involved. When i was going out i had half a tank of fuel and i filled up 3mls from home on returning. Do i have a problem or anyone else experianced anything like this? I've got 34,500mls up.Sad 
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 21 Oct 2013, 15:53



There is a self diagnosis procedure in the service manual.
No special equipment or tools are needed. Depending on the year of your Swing, start on either p.5-8 or p. 5-12. Once you get the number of blinks of the light, then go to the codes to find out what sub-system has caused the V-light to flash.
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: My F1 light came on   Mon 21 Oct 2013, 18:03

I have the FSC manual and I'm not too far away if you get desperate enough !!!
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 22 Oct 2013, 12:00

Thanks Bigbird and bikerboy, i do have the workshop manual. The light only came on for seconds but, does that indicate a need to investigate?
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 22 Oct 2013, 14:41

Old Limey wrote:
Thanks Bigbird and bikerboy, i do have the workshop manual. The light only came on for seconds but, does that indicate a need to investigate?
I would investigate to see if there are any stored codes.

You stated that the engine was running abnormally for a short time. I would want to know why.

If there are no stored codes, it may have been an intermittent open circuit, which is the most likely cause. You don't want to be stuck out in the middle of Yahoopits, or Yorkshire, or wherever your travels take you. From experience, if there's a sketchy electrical connection somewhere it won't magically just disappear forever, but will likely rear its ugly head again at the most inopportune time. I know it's a lot of work, but I would start with checking (removing and reattaching) every electrical connector.


Last edited by bigbird on Tue 22 Oct 2013, 14:44; edited 1 time in total
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 22 Oct 2013, 14:43

Maybe its just some electrical connection that needs attention.

Simply re-plugging the offending item may cure it but finding it is the problem. Worth a shot if it happens again...
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 22 Oct 2013, 15:01

My usual pioy of ignoring the problem does not seem appropriate in this case . i will do as suggested and check all elecrical connections, also the stored codes. spraying WD 40 as i go. I don't want to be stuck over the moors in winter. Thanks for suggestions everyone.Sad 
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Wed 23 Oct 2013, 12:29

Slight problem. I have identified the Service check connector, but, mine has three cables  connected to it, Green -Orange/black - brown/ white. My Owners Manual ( which has the date published as 2001) shows only two cables marked Green and Brown. As two cables need to be connected, which two?? My Silverwing is  an A7 First registered 2010.Sad
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Wed 23 Oct 2013, 15:17

I've searched my Service Manual 2002-2007 and found the 'service check connector' where it just says to short it using a jumper wire! The diagrams show the jumper across the outer pins of the connector but they have drawn the 'service check connector' as having just two wires. The wring diagram at the back of the book for the ABS version shows it should have 3 wires, but the colours are Orange/Blue - Brown White - Green. We need someone with a later Manual.

Sorry to have added to your confusion Embarassed 

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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Wed 23 Oct 2013, 15:32

I've got a later manual and it still shows the DLC (Data Link Connector) needs to have the Brown and Green wires shorted. This is from a N. American manual.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Thu 24 Oct 2013, 13:48

So in my case it would be the Green and Brown/white need connecting, Bigbird, you think? Thankyou RArch it is a bit misleading isn't it?
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Thu 24 Oct 2013, 17:47

Old Limey wrote:
So in my case it would be the Green and Brown/white need connecting, Bigbird, you think?
The wiring schematic shows the 2 wires that need shorting, the Green and Brown, connect to pins 11 and 3 respectively of the "A" section of the ECU. Look at the "A" section of your ECU, see what colour wires are connected to pins 11 and 3, and use those coloured wires to short out. That seems logical to me.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Fri 25 Oct 2013, 12:23

Cheers Bigbird, will do, thankyou for checking for me. Smile 
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Fri 25 Oct 2013, 13:53

Old Limey wrote:
Cheers Bigbird, will do, thankyou for checking for me. Smile 
You're welcome. I hope it helps resolve your FI light problem.
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 00:54

I don't know why there is no continuation on this thread, to let us know if the problem was sorted or not  Crying or Very sad . It's not right to ask for help then leave it at that.

Anyway, yesterday I had a problem with my 2002 SW (14,800 miles) where I tried to restart it after stopping for about 5 minutes. The engine was turning over but failing to start. It was only after I blipped the throttle when it did start and worked fine after that. I did restart it after a further 5 mins a few miles later with no problems. When I did try to restart it after a day at the beach, the engine would not turn, I tried it a few more times, each time switching the ignition completely off then on again and at one time I saw the FI warning light come on for a few seconds. One more try and it did start and again worked faultlessly all the way home. With the first problem I had with the engine turning over but failing to start I suspected the battery failing not turning it strong enough. With the second problem it seemed to be a loose connection. I will check everything this week, but if anyone has any ideas you're welcome to share. Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 10:12

yammer wrote:
<>I had a problem with my 2002 SW (14,800 miles) where I tried to restart it after stopping for about 5 minutes. The engine was turning over but failing to start. It was only after I blipped the throttle when it did start and worked fine after that. I did restart it after a further 5 mins a few miles later with no problems. When I did try to restart it after a day at the beach, the engine would not turn, I tried it a few more times, each time switching the ignition completely off then on again and at one time I saw the FI warning light come on for a few seconds. One more try and it did start and again worked faultlessly all the way home. With the first problem I had with the engine turning over but failing to start I suspected the battery failing not turning it strong enough. With the second problem it seemed to be a loose connection.

Given your erratic starting situation I wouldn't be concerned with that "FI" light. I suspect that you may have a flooded engine causing your starting problem. To clear the 'flooded' condition you need to have the throttle wide open (WOT) while you try to start. That will allow max air input to clear the plugs. Obviously you'll need to reduce the throttle opening one the beast begins to run.

A faulty fuel pressure regulator (FPR) will contribute to a flooded engine. Easy to change. HTH

Tim
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 11:24

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
yammer wrote:
<>I had a problem with my 2002 SW (14,800 miles) where I tried to restart it after stopping for about 5 minutes. The engine was turning over but failing to start. It was only after I blipped the throttle when it did start and worked fine after that. I did restart it after a further 5 mins a few miles later with no problems. When I did try to restart it after a day at the beach, the engine would not turn, I tried it a few more times, each time switching the ignition completely off then on again and at one time I saw the FI warning light come on for a few seconds. One more try and it did start and again worked faultlessly all the way home. With the first problem I had with the engine turning over but failing to start I suspected the battery failing not turning it strong enough. With the second problem it seemed to be a loose connection.

Given your erratic starting situation I wouldn't be concerned with that "FI" light. I suspect that you may have a flooded engine causing your starting problem. To clear the 'flooded' condition you need to have the throttle wide open (WOT) while you try to start. That will allow max air input to clear the plugs. Obviously you'll need to reduce the throttle opening one the beast begins to run.

A faulty fuel pressure regulator (FPR) will contribute to a flooded engine. Easy to change. HTH

Tim

Thanks Tim but that does not explain my second problem of the day when the engine failed to turn and that was when the FI light came on.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 14:47

yammer wrote:

Thanks Tim but that does not explain my second problem of the day when the engine failed to turn and that was when the FI light came on.

An engine failing to crank can be caused by many issues. The starter could be failing, for a variety of reasons. There could be not enough electrical energy reaching the starter, for a variety of reasons. Or you could have hydraulic lock in your cylinder/s (highly unlikely). Without knowing your battery, battery cables, battery terminals, starter relay, or starter's condition, I can't point you in any particular direction.
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Chris Olson
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 23:46

bigbird wrote:
An engine failing to crank can be caused by many issues.

I found on my bike it can also be caused by a sticky rear brake light switch. The switch has two sets of contacts in it - light squeeze brake lights - heavy squeeze starting switch. Mine was sticky and wouldn't quite close the second of contacts even with a heavy brake lever squeeze. Happened in Thunder Bay, Ontario. Took me 3-4 minutes to figure out what the problem was and a little WD40 sprayed on the switch to clean and lube it fixed it.
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 00:50

I checked the battery voltage and connections yesterday and nothing to indicate a failing battery and the engine fired up first time after a day at rest in the garage. My conclusions are the following, the first time it would not start could very well be caused by a flooded engine as suggested by Cosmic_Jumper because the engine was switched off only shortly after I started the engine with the automatic choke still activated, the second problem with the engine failing to turn over could very well be what Chris Olsen posted, because it was left for a day in the sun and may have caused the switch to expand or deform and unable to make contact. I will inspect the switch and spray it with WD40. I only use the SW on weekends so I'll have to wait a few more days to see if this solves the problem. Thanks for all the replies. I'll keep you posted.
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Chris Olson
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 09:31

What to look for on that - you can hear the switch click when you squeeze the lever - twice. The first click is the brake light circuit, the second the starter circuit. Mine would go up to the second click but because the switch was sticky it would halt before closing the contacts and the blade on the switch was no longer in contact with the brake lever. Just bumping it with my finger caused it work. After spraying some WD-40 in by the blade on the switch and rinsing some "grime" out of it it hasn't given a problem since.

I suspect the switch is lubricated with some sort of grease from the factory that eventually gets dried out and/or collects some dirt in it. And that's what happened to mine. It's something to keep in mind if it happens again.
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 12:10

[quote="yammer"]I don't know why there is no continuation on this thread, to let us know if the problem was sorted or not  Crying or Very sad . It's not right to ask for help then leave it at that.

I didn't realise this was my original post, To answer your question yammer, i started the investigation then realised i was in over my head so, plan "B" was to wait and see. I am buying a new Silverwing in about two weeks time. Apart from a different electrical problem, i had a couple of weeks ago, that Bigbird helped me with, the FI light did not come on again.I have done several thousand miles since, A dealer i mentioned this to said he thought the light probably came on as a slight glitch may have occured and it sorted itself out. I did not "ask for help and then leave it at that" as you put it. My original post was in October 2013 that's nine months ago Shocked 
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 12:28

Old Limey wrote:
A dealer i mentioned this to said he thought the light probably came on as a slight glitch may have occured and it sorted itself out.

Honda's programmed injection looks at values it gets from various sensors - cam (crank angle), throttle opening, MAP, etc. - and if some value don't agree with the present fuel rate they turn on the light on the info center. It may have not even been an electrical "glitch" - simply sensor values not agreeing with the programmed map due to sudden throttle change, air temp, manifold pressure, etc.. So it flashed the light. In my experience with programmed EFI systems, it's nothing to worry about unless the light comes on and stays on.

The system may or may not store a DTC for a momentary sensor value issue if it does not occur consistently. Honda's system is pretty basic compared to what is used in most of the automotive world.
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 13:21

Old Limey wrote:
yammer wrote:
I don't know why there is no continuation on this thread, to let us know if the problem was sorted or not  Crying or Very sad . It's not right to ask for help then leave it at that.
 
I didn't realise this was my original post, To answer your question yammer, i started the investigation then realised i was in over my head so, plan "B" was to wait and see. I am buying a new Silverwing in about two weeks time. Apart from a different electrical problem, i had a couple of weeks ago, that Bigbird helped me with, the FI light did not come on again.I have done several thousand miles since, A dealer i mentioned this to said he thought the light probably came on as a slight glitch may have occured and it sorted itself out. I did not "ask for help and then leave it at that" as you put it. My original post was in October 2013 that's  nine months ago Shocked 

I apologise if I sounded mean, I always do a search before I post about a problem, just in case someone who had the same issue had it sorted but to wait 9 months for a conclusion is too much so I had to do something about it.  :lol!:
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 13:39

That's okay yammer, I do about 10,000mls a year, i don't think you will do anything like that on Malta(I,ve been to Malta twice). When I hired a car they told me, "you drive in the shade" not on the right or left, I thought they were joking , they weren't! Smile 
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Tue 15 Jul 2014, 13:51

Old Limey wrote:
That's okay yammer, I do about 10,000mls a year, i don't think you will do anything like that on Malta(I,ve been to Malta twice). When I hired a car they told me, "you drive in the shade" not on the right or left, I thought they were joking , they weren't! Smile 

We do care about tourists and try our best to give them good advise just in case they get sunburnt or sunstroke. Laughing  Laughing 
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Fri 18 Jul 2014, 09:55

Just to conclude my original post regarding my specific problem. I can almost certainly claim that the problem with my scooter failing to turn the engine comes from a faulty rear brake light/starter enable switch. In fact the rear brake contact has also failed but did manage to get the starter enable contacts to work consistently until I get a replacement. I only received a parcel from Partzilla containing a new belt last week Sad , now I have to pay $43.99 shipping for a $16 switch. Mad  Thanks for all the help.
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:31

Yammer, can you not get parts cheaper in the EU. I get some good parts from Wemoto. com. And on Ebay for UK and Ireland try FJS 600 parts. Its more or less the same as the American FSC600. Smile 
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Chris Olson
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PostSubject: Re: My FI Light came on   Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:57

yammer wrote:
Just to conclude my original post regarding my specific problem. I can almost certainly claim that the problem with my scooter failing to turn the engine comes from a faulty rear brake light/starter enable switch.

Glad you found it. That darn switch, it seems to me, is sort of a poor design for the intended use. I guess I haven't heard of a lot of folks having problems with it, but the design looks susceptible to grime, dirt or moisture getting into it and causing it to stick. I'll bet you a 10 dollar bill your brake lights were flashing due to a sticky switch holding just at the contact point before it burnt the contacts out. I know that would've happened to mine if I hadn't caught it that day and rinsed it out with WD-40
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