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 Best Modifications for Best MPG?

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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 12:33

I have tried the search feature and came up empty. If I was to either add or take away from a Silverwing what would that be? Is the 2008 and newer models that much better for fuel mileage?

The first SW I test drove had the tach. at 4500 @60mph. I understand that the Dr. Pulley sliders can help drop that, but not sure if going to the heaviest slider would be best? Ideas?

Aero mods are going to be later down the road. I am looking for immediate solutions.

I read somewhere that there is a electronic command module. Info on that would be helpful. Again, just looking to get better mpg's.

I am mindful of the tire pressure, heavy accelerations, kind of things already.

Thank you
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txtrkdrvr
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:33

I've also searched for exactly the same thing you did and came up with Zilch. The only thing that even remotely looked promising was a K & N air filter which is supposed to promote free flowing air. That being said, every time I go to K & N's web site, I can't find any mention of this air filter to fit a SWing.
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:37

What kind mpg do you get with your 09? I wondered if it is worth the extra money to buy a use 08 and newer just for the supposedly better mpg?
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:40

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txtrkdrvr
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:43

Yes, I tried to post a retraction a while ago. I went back and double checked and sure enough they finally posted it. Thanks.
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txtrkdrvr
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:45

50 MPG lowest 61 MPG Highest. I consistently average 55 MPG
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roadrunner
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:50

txtrkdrvr wrote:
50 MPG lowest 61 MPG Highest. I consistently average 55 MPG

You're lucky you live in (flat) Florida. The only way you're going to beat 61 MPG is to quit twisting your right hand so hard. My personal experience has been a low of 52 and a high of 56. 53 is my norm.
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 13:59

I have added the Dr Pulley sliders (28gr), a K&N filter, and the Power commander with the Euro map in it. I used to get about 45 mpg and not avg around 50-52. The PC is about $300 though and gives a few mpg better, and smooths the engine out more. Even though the SWing is very smooth as is...it really smooths it out. I would try the Dr Pulley sliders and the K&N and go from there.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 14:08

If you are willing to spend the money, the nice thing about the power commander, is that a tuning center can tune it to fit YOUR bike, for better economy or power.

Other than that, JeffR_ and roadrunner have given you the best advice.

Dan
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 14:33

JeffR_ wrote:
I have added the Dr Pulley sliders (28gr), a K&N filter, and the Power commander with the Euro map in it. I used to get about 45 mpg and not avg around 50-52. The PC is about $300 though and gives a few mpg better, and smooths the engine out more. Even though the SWing is very smooth as is...it really smooths it out. I would try the Dr Pulley sliders and the K&N and go from there.

What does the Euro map do? 5 to 7 mpg increase is really good!
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 14:37

dspevack wrote:
If you are willing to spend the money, the nice thing about the power commander, is that a tuning center can tune it to fit YOUR bike, for better economy or power.

Other than that, JeffR_ and roadrunner have given you the best advice.

Dan

I don't mind spending money to get better fuel mileage. I keep vehicles for a very long time. My truck has over 550,000 miles on it.

By tuning center, do you mean dyno shop? I'll do a google search too.

Thanks also
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 15:09

After looking at the PC, it looks like it is for the 2004-2008 models. Maybe I missed something. I see some claims as high as 3-5mpg improvements from stock too. There also looks like they have some cool features that you can add like the LCD option with on the fly control.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 15:25

If your bike year is not listed I would call them.
On their website you can find your closest authorized dyno tuning shop.

Dan
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 15:47

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:03; edited 1 time in total
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 18:32

Why not just be a bit gentler on the throttle, that costs nothing. Neutral
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Windrider
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 19:11

My Harley got 47 to 51 MPG but that was on the Super, So the cost is less on the SWing as It runs good on the Low Grade stuff, I'll stick with my Silverwing.
I get 48 to 52 on the Swing.
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The Scootist
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 19:58

Next to a lighter throttle hand the sliders seem to be the cheapest thing you can do to improve your MPGs. The other benefit of the sliders is they also give you better accelleration, so it seems like a pretty good option. The K&N air filter seems to help a bit as do the free flow exhaust and the power commander. In order to optimize the PC you should have it tuned for your elevation. However, you should understand that the additional gain in MPG may not ever pay for the additional cost of the dyno tune. As Jeff indicated the PC does seem to smooth out the engine. While I was adding all the mods to my bike my goal was to improve performance, but not sacrifice too much in mpg. With all the mods I have done, I average about 54 to 55 mpg. The highest was 59 and the lowest was 50. And considering that I tend to ride fairly fast and accellerate quickly. I am not unhappy with the results.
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 19 Feb 2012, 22:45

bigbird wrote:
No one buys a maxi scooter in the hopes of getting spectacular mileage. These engines are made for high specific horsepower output from a relatively small displacement and fuel economy is not one of their strong points.
If you specifically need good fuel economy wait for the new NC700 series of bikes from Honda. They are low rpm, high torque engines which will easily get you 70mpg if ridden conservatively. Even an air cooled HD V-Twin will net you better mpg figures than a Silverwing.
If you want spectacular mileage, get a Honda SH150i scooter.
Spending $300+ on a Power Commander using an economy map to gain a few mpg's is a questionable investment.

Unless you drive Grinsel style and put on mega miles every year, does 5 mpg per season of driving really make a difference to your wallet?

There are reasons for my interest in this model. One is the step through. Another is the possibility of Aero modding the bike and another is that I can buy one used at a relatively low price.

My ultimate goal is to acheive the very best fuel mileage for this bike. My current vehicle has over 550,000 miles, so I think that the mods will pay for themselves in fuel savings over time. This bike will also be my daily driver.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 01:20

I agree fully with 'bigbird'. For the minor saving in mpg you are looking for there will be smaller engined machines that will deliver better fuel consumption.

In my opinion it is not a scooter for economic riding. Perhaps a Burgman 400 which gives very good mpg. Is a reliable and decent quality ride. It is step through and will drive you along at 70+mph.

The 'Wing' is a bit of a thoroughbred and asks to be riden. And 'riding' a 'Wing' will not give anyone a good return of mpg.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 09:44

I'm interested in what you mean by aeromodding.
Most of the aerodynamic mods I've seen make the bike less aerodynamic. Such as larger windshields, wider spaced mirrors, top boxes, etc. The only thing I've seen that makes the bike more aerodynamic, is the sportike style aftermarket windshield. Forget who sold it. I got a Kit from Japan that I had added to my bike which changed the look. (You can see it at the link in my sig.) But the extra weight added for not only the kit but the molding in of the fiberglass, took away any benefit it might have had. I actually think my bike is slower due the the extra weight.

So what are your intentions regarding aeromodding?
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 09:58

Dan,

I think, in my case...aeromodding would be if I dropped a few pounds. affraid
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:12

DennisB wrote:
Dan,

I think, in my case...aeromodding would be if I dropped a few pounds. affraid

100% agree Dennis. (So would Mrs Waspie too I suspect) Laughing

Meaning me lose pounds not her - phew, hope I get away with that one) Laughing Laughing Laughing
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:52

DennisB wrote:
Dan,

I think, in my case...aeromodding would be if I dropped a few pounds. affraid
::Sigh:: Me too... nopity

This was driven home to me when I went out to breakfast this morning.
The waitress brought me ketchup (which I can do without).
As normal, I shook the ketchup to loosen it up.
The cap was not on tight.
It went all over my formerly white T-shirt, face, hair, and the next 3 tables.
I looked like I had just commited bloody murder.
Fortunately the other table's occupants had a sense of humor.
And I had to waddle thru the crowded restaurant to the bathroom with everyone stareing. Boy did I feel like a...well...you get the idea.
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AAAA
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 22:05

Finding and using non ethanol fuel will do wonders for your mileage.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 23:05

I tried to find non ethanol fuel in California and I don't think they are allowed to sell it. There is a gas station that sells racing fuel but I think that is 100 octane and I'm not sure if it would be bad for the engine.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Mon 20 Feb 2012, 23:51

5 Pure Gas Stations in California
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 02:28

dspevack wrote:
I'm interested in what you mean by aeromodding.
Most of the aerodynamic mods I've seen make the bike less aerodynamic. Such as larger windshields, wider spaced mirrors, top boxes, etc. The only thing I've seen that makes the bike more aerodynamic, is the sportike style aftermarket windshield. Forget who sold it. I got a Kit from Japan that I had added to my bike which changed the look. (You can see it at the link in my sig.) But the extra weight added for not only the kit but the molding in of the fiberglass, took away any benefit it might have had. I actually think my bike is slower due the the extra weight.

So what are your intentions regarding aeromodding?

My future plan is to reduce drag on a Honda SW by semi enclosing it like this http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2010-06/you-built-what-aerocycle. Also, on the idea that extra weight would reduce efficency is not always correct. Many aero modders have found that even after adding weight with the aerodynamic shell and supporting metal they got higher mpg and less noisy and warmer rides.
The other advantage of the maxi scooter is weight and the effect side winds have on the heavy bikes when enclosed.
My mind is set on the Honda SW as my bike of choice. Much of my attempts and successes with aero modding are with truck and trailers. So this will certainly be an experience.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 03:13

You mean one of these?


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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 07:40

All I will say is each to his own!!!! Oh and Yuck!!!!! Laughing
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Windrider
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 09:04

DennisB wrote:
Dan,

I think, in my case...aeromodding would be if I dropped a few pounds. affraid

+1
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 10:57

You can check out the UK forum http://www.voidstar.com/bff/ as a good place to start for aeromodding.

Dunno how practical going to all that effort would be if you are trying to gain maximum MPGs on a SW. The biggest issue you'll have to overcome is the inefficiency of the SW transmission. There are big energy losses with the variable ratio pulleys and belt slip.

At this time the best way to address the transmission issue (assuming you've already changed to lighter variator slider-weights) is to switch over to a Dr Pulley HiT Clutch. The HiT Clutch locks-up after a certain RPM so that clutch slip is eliminated after that. You are able to tailor that lock-up rpm by changing the springs which activate the lock-up Push Pins.

So the lighter variator weights reduce the operating rpm -and increase acceleration if you're heavy handed, and the HiT Clutch will reduce clutch slipping. Now all you've got to do is to change the final drive ratio.

Several of us here have changed the rear tire to a Sumitomo car tire which, being larger diameter, changes that final ratio, slows down the cruising rpm's and adds to the fuel efficiency.

However just to confuse matters; increasing the variator weights to 35gm as Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) and some Asian market SW's have as OEM weights will dramatically improve MPGs, significantly decrease operating rpm (e.g. 4300 rpm @ 70mph) but get you piss poor acceleration & passing speeds.

Hope this helps

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 12:21

Excellant, thank you Tim! I am fine with the poor acceleration. Going from a 70cc bike (80+mpg, 45mph tops) to a 582cc SW (40-50mpg, 60+mph) will certainly change the ride anyway. I am used to the slow acceleration already.
The stock 2003 that I recently test drove showed 4500 at 60mph. Thats about the speed that I will be at a majority of my ride.

You mention about the 35gm variator weights. Are they the same thing as sliders?
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 18:54

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
You can check out the UK forum http://www.voidstar.com/bff/ as a good place to start for aeromodding.

That stuff is years out of date, I was a member of the Best Feet Forward Motorcyle Club from 1996 onwards and we were mainly Helix enthusiasts. There was also a lot of interest in the quite rare Feet forward creations of British engineering gurus Malcolm Newell and Royce Creasey back then. I went on a day run from Lancashire into the Yorkshire Dales where a couple of members turned up on a Voyager, and a Quasar, the rest of us following on our Honda CN250 Helix because that was the largest capacity FF scooter available back then. We all kept in touch by newsletter, then they became infrequent, membership renewals weren't acknowledged, and the club faded away.

In the USA Craig Vetter, and Dan Gurney have had their own FF concept bikes. BMW and Benelli tried hard with their C1 and Adiva scooters, and both were regarded as nothing more than roofed oddities.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 21:12

aerosilverwing wrote:
>>You mention about the 35gm variator weights. Are they the same thing as sliders? <<

OEM variator weights are in the form of Rollers. Aftermarket variator weights come in the form of both roller weights (Rollers) and sliding weights (Sliders).

Dr Pulley produces both Rollers & Sliders in many different weights.

I know that someone here in the US retails Dr Pulley stuff, but most probably only the "standard" stuff. Sorry the retailer's name escapes me though.

You might have to contact Paul Wu at UnionMaterial.com (Dr Pulley's parent company) for more specific info about 35gm Sliders availability.

IMHO for any given weight Sliders are a big improvement over Rollers.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Tue 21 Feb 2012, 21:49

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:04; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 12:20

Thank you for your comments guys.

I picked up my first Silverwing yesterday. Its a 2002 model, not really what I wanted, but what I could afford. The keys were lost and someone used a screwdriver in all of the locks but the ignition. After disassembling the front end to get the ignition switch to the locksmith, and finding out about the rookie mistake of not pulling in the driverside brake until you hear the second click, it fired right up.

After a safety check was done, I went on a long ride. It runs great and rides the same as the newer one I test drove a few weeks back. I am really excited to see what kind of fuel mileage this one gets stock. It has 14,000 miles on it and has a few scratches, but should serve me well.

Tim, I am still a bit confused on your statement at the top of page 2.

Quote :
So the lighter variator weights reduce the operating rpm -and increase acceleration if you're heavy handed, and the HiT Clutch will reduce clutch slipping. Now all you've got to do is to change the final drive ratio.
It seems to me that lighter weights would increase operating rpm.

Quote :
However just to confuse matters; increasing the variator weights to 35gm as Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) and some Asian market SW's have as OEM weights will dramatically improve MPGs, significantly decrease operating rpm (e.g. 4300 rpm @ 70mph) but get you piss poor acceleration & passing speeds.
My new bike really accelerates fast. Is there a chart or information on how much each weight increases/decreases acceleration/rpm?
Again, thanks to all for your help.

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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 14:29

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:04; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 16:06

aerosilverwing wrote:
I picked up my first Silverwing yesterday. Its a 2002 model, not really what I wanted, but what I could afford.

I am really excited to see what kind of fuel mileage this one gets stock. It has 14,000 miles on it and has a few scratches, but should serve me well.

The early Silver Wings had a reputation for heavy fuel consumption that stuck, and tarnished it's reputation in the UK for years. I avoided buying one until 2010 when I bought a new one, I've no real complaints about the mpg which is an improvement on the earlier models, but the Silver Wing wouldn't even make the list if I was choosing a scooter for it's economy.

You started the topic about MPG and aeromodding yet you still buy one of the thirstier older models to start your project. Installing Dr Pulley weights, sliders, a HiT Clutch etc, may not even get you achieving the MPG a later model Silver Wing gets with no mods.



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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 16:15

If you want economical fuel return, get a Honda Melody!!!!!!!! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 17:06

Waspie wrote:
If you want economical fuel return, get a Honda Melody!!!!!!!! Wink

An an old aeromodder myself back in the day, I used to widen the mesh of the front shopping basket on the Melody for improved airflow and performance. It's illegal of course and when pulled over by a fast patrol car, the police couldn't prove it without a set of vernier calipers. Wink
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 17:23

I just removed the basket, the weight reduction and reduction of overall drag gave me an extra 1 mph, how it effected my MPG I never calculated as I was too stressed from the massive G forces due to the increase in performance!!!!

Now we're just getting silly!!! affraid
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dikkiedo
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Fri 24 Feb 2012, 22:07

i would usualy get 90-95 MPG from my yamaha zuma but it would barely go 40 MPH. i can hit 90 MPH on the swing fairly easy and when i ride at my normal pace of 60-62 in a 55 MPH zone i get 50+ MPG. and thats better MPG then the 2009 accent i had before this. and by far way more fun. i think the MPG is great compared to the MPF (miles per fun) but for a scooter that gets up and goes like the swing does and gets prius type milage im satisfied.
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 02:25

Meldrew said:
Quote :
You started the topic about MPG and aeromodding yet you still buy one of the thirstier older models to start your project. Installing Dr Pulley weights, sliders, a HiT Clutch etc, may not even get you achieving the MPG a later model Silver Wing gets with no mods.


You're funny. I didn't read that there was that much difference from year to year, except for the 2008+ with the O2 sensors. None the less, I came across a bike that would allow me to pay cash and have some money left over to modify it. I would sure like to have an unlimited budget like some of you old guys, ha ha

My purchase might be short lived anyway as my hands are falling asleep on rides longer than 30 minutes..........
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 08:36

aerosilverwing wrote:
My purchase might be short lived anyway as my hands are falling asleep on rides longer than 30 minutes..........

Grip Puppies are inexpensive and I believe would help.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 11:25

As Bill said.. you can get grip puppies and they do a great job. The problem with the SWing's grips are they are very thin and don't have any cushion. They probably only work good for people with small hands. The grips are very easy to remove if you use a long thin screwdriver. I put something in the pictorial section I think, that makes it really easy and quick to remove the existing grips.

But new grips that are bigger and with cushion will take care of that problem really quick.
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 11:32

Thanks guys, I will seek those out today.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 18:30

I listened to advice on here and installed Grip Puppies, they were rubbish. I removed them and they now fitted to the handle of my snow shovel as Slush Puppies! Smile
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aerosilverwing
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 18:34

Meldrew wrote:
I listened to advice on here and installed Grip Puppies, they were rubbish. I removed them and they now fitted to the handle of my snow shovel as Slush Puppies! Smile

What do you suggest then? Did you find any that worked for you?
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sat 25 Feb 2012, 20:00

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 17:04; edited 1 time in total
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Best Modifications for Best MPG?   Sun 26 Feb 2012, 04:13

bigbird wrote:
Meldrew wrote:
I listened to advice on here and installed Grip Puppies, they were rubbish.

I listened to advice on here and installed Grip Puppies, they are fantastic.

Not on top of heated grips they aren't, and they're just two bits of foam pipe insulation.
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