BMW Urban Mobility Solution

The BMW concept is now reality, this from the latest Motorrad eNewsletter

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html

So what does this have that my Silverwing doesn't, other than the BMW pricetag?

dspevack wrote:

So what does this have that my Silverwing doesn't, other than the BMW pricetag?

BMW logo.

I'll wait till I see one in the flesh as the pictures aren't overly flattering!!

dspevack wrote:

Reality is irrelevant. Its perception that counts.
Control people's perceptions, and you control their reality.

I guess it’s perceived as being a superior machine.

Fresh looks,more power, BIGGER tires.............

The thing about BMW ownership is you tend to get sucked into the BMW lifestyle machine. You join a BMW Owners Club, you buy the System helmet, and the riding suits with the BMW logos on them. Then you start fitting their expensive accessories, or better still from Touratech or similar specialist companies in Germany. The only people that notice them are your fellow BMW enthusiasts, so you go to the Club rallies to make sure your latest bits get spotted. Don't ask me how I know this!

I was on a camping trip in Devon last autumn. Whilst I was having a cuppa in a lay-by a BMW GS went by. Very nice too with full luggage and gear etc. Then another half a dozen went by - all looking exactly the same!
Same bikes, same luggage, same jackets and helmets even.
I thought my eyes were going funny at first and that I was seeing the same bike lots of times .
Don't get me wrong, good luck to them. They looked to be enjoying themselves but it did seem to show a certain lack of imagination.
Cookie

Meldrew:
That is a well informed observation. We see the same sort of "join the club" mentality here in the US with the owners of the Harley Davidsons. The big difference is, at least with a BMW you are paying for a well engineered machine. With the Harley you are paying a lot of money for a bad-boy attitude, a lot of noise, and a POS.

Meldrew wrote:

The thing about BMW ownership ... Don't ask me how I know this!

Been there, done that too (BMW). I am so glad that the Silver Wing doesn't have a persona that requires conformity.

:flower:

joncallihan wrote:

I am so glad that the Silver Wing doesn't have a persona that requires conformity.

Does non-conformity count

x

honda_silver wrote:

Does non-conformity count

I would say it was an essential requirement!!

Bigbird:
That is quite true. Not a bad piece of work. And if the cost is any indication, they are extremely proud of it...

Winger61 wrote:

honda_silver wrote:

Does non-conformity count

I would say it was an essential requirement!!

"But Moooooooommm, I just have to be an non-conformist like everyone else."

I have to say i love Beemers, and I am drooling over this (if not just for the single-sided rear swingarm). Probably will run $12-15k though.

Jesse

joncallihan wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

The thing about BMW ownership ... Don't ask me how I know this!

Been there, done that too (BMW). I am so glad that the Silver Wing doesn't have a persona that requires conformity.

:flower:

Now thats funny!

toolboxjesse wrote:

I have to say i love Beemers, and I am drooling over this (if not just for the single-sided rear swingarm). Probably will run $12-15k though.

Jesse

Jesse I just bought a Red 650 beemer scoot and it was just a little over 11k...heated grips and seats...e-adjustable wind screen etc. I've put 196 mi. on it this past week-end and I think it will be a good ride. It has plenty power and handles the twisties great! I'm in the VA. Mts. and it is no problem finding great roads to determine a bikes abilities. I had a Yamaha Majesty before and it was great.I put 21 k on it,so I'm well up on Scooters performances.I think the best part of going with this Scoot is the transmission.Double clutch...gears (no belts) and final drive chain inclosed and in oil. I believe for the money they will be ,by far,the best Scooter bargain this coming year. I read that BMW has been on this project since 03 so I would say they have it right! Happy scooten,Ray Mac.

dspevack wrote:

So what does this have that my Silverwing doesn't, other than the BMW pricetag?

Greetings Dspevack!..From what I've obsevered since I have been introduced to " Scooters" You have a good machine. I had a Yamaha Majesty for 2 years and I loved it. I started gathering info on the BMW C 650 GT when I first heard about it,and I was impressed with the transmission set-up,big wheels etc. I ordered one in August and got it on the 9th of this month.I've put a couple hundred miles on it already (cold weather here in S.W.Virginia) and so far I can say that I believe it will be a big imprivement over the very good Majesty. I would bet that You,in a couple of years will consider going to one! I think You will find that they have a lot of qualities that Your Swing dosnt have. All for just a few more bucks! When I get back from Daytona ans Sturgis next year I will give You an update on this Scoot,OK? Have a good Ride!....Ray Mac.

Ray Mac
As an ex BMW K series owner, I'm sure that you will notice a dramatic increase in maintenance costs. I'm also sure that your initial observations are probably very accurate.

Jon

BMW = Bring More Wallet !!!

BMW = Break My Wallet
BMW have very carefully crafted a persona of superiority in the automotive and motorbike markets. Join The Club is part of the persona and works very well for them. After driving/riding several of their vehicles, I'm impressed with the general quality driving/riding experience. However, after watching friends, family and acquaintences PAY for this experience twice, once at purchase and secondly for maintenance, both regular and unplanned, I shy away. Many BMW owners seem too proud to admit that they are paying a great deal for the experience and the vehicle is not as reliable and quality built as other vehicles that are far less expensive.
Summary: For anyone willing to pay for a quality experience the BMW is right. IMHO

There are plenty of people who drive BMW because there is status involved.
There are some people that drive BMW because they want you to know they have the money to spend on it.
There are people who drive BMW because the know cars and they know that BMW makes some of the finest performance vehicles available.

I think the same can be said of Porsche and Mercedes, to some extent. Everything about them is well crafted, from image to reputation to the actual product.

At least you can say that about these vehicles and their drivers. There are people that drive Chevy for the exact same reasons, and those people are pretty backwards.

From the middle of NASCAR land comes these words of wisdom.

And I literally worked in a plant here that made Chevrolet vehicles too.

SCTLVR wrote:

BMW = Break My Wallet
BMW have very carefully crafted a persona of superiority in the automotive and motorbike markets. Join The Club is part of the persona and works very well for them. After driving/riding several of their vehicles, I'm impressed with the general quality driving/riding experience. However, after watching friends, family and acquaintences PAY for this experience twice, once at purchase and secondly for maintenance, both regular and unplanned, I shy away. Many BMW owners seem too proud to admit that they are paying a great deal for the experience and the vehicle is not as reliable and quality built as other vehicles that are far less expensive.
Summary: For anyone willing to pay for a quality experience the BMW is right. IMHO

Thats..Bring More Wampum LOL...You are right on about the expense of operating a BMW Car,and possibly a 'K' model Bike.I'm a Chevrolet Man....so I know about quality riding with minimal expenses. I have also owned 2 BMW Bikes...an old 500 cc "earls fork job" and still have a 77 model 750.( I gave it to My Grand son) but I still consider it in My stable! I have't spent anything on it ,neither has He. Just general maintenance,tires etc. I don't anticipate anything other than that sorta thing with this Scooter! I have read about the many problems with the Japaneese "belt " trannys etc. and that is My main reason for going with theBeemer. Any problem with this Bike will be posted promptly! I'm a rider......8 to 10 K per year,so I will thoroughly test it. Happy scooten!.....Ray Mac.

joncallihan wrote:

Ray Mac
As an ex BMW K series owner, I'm sure that you will notice a dramatic increase in maintenance costs. I'm also sure that your initial observations are probably very accurate.

Jon

Hello Jon .....I have owned two Boxer engine powered BMW's and never had any expenses other than the usual tires etc. I was always suspicious of the K models,so I didn't get on one. BMW has been on this Scooter thing since 03 and I'm betting they have it right! No belts and sliders crap in the transmission for instance. The final drive is a chain enclosed in an oil bath cover,,,I had the same thing on My 84 Harley...fool proof,no maintenance what so ever. All adjustments,if it needed any,was made by the shop when a new tire was installed.So I never seen the chain.I'm hoping the Scooter contingent has a capable addition! ...Ride safe!.....Ray Mac.

The BMW spec's state Constantly Variable Transmission (CVT) = "Gearbox" and "Drive" = Chain, (which we know is the final drive from CVT to rear wheel hub) but what are they using for a CVT if not a belt and pulleys like Suzuki, Honda and the rest? They also state reduction gears and primary power drive chain along with centrifigal clutch. We all have centrigal clutches, nothing new here. Aside from the primary engine and final chain drive, it looks like the drive train is very similar to everyone else: belt/pullys and reduction gears after the CVT (I'm a little confused here from the second article I read here http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2012models/2012-BMW-C650GT.htm ). In fact, it's quite similar to the current Swing and Burgman 650: Parallel twin engine with balance shafts, EFI, DOHC, four valve head, oversquare bore/stroke, ~65 HP, 8,500 RPM Redline, 109 max MPH, ~540 lbs., ABS, dual front brakes (Burgy), similar wheel sizes. Where's the big difference that makes it superior? Probably in perceived ride and handling. We'll see. If the drive system is smooth and there are no loud noises from the front wheel, and if it handles and brakes better than the Honda, they'll have a competition for Honda. If the scoot IS more refined and has more build/engineering problems, it will likely be a wash and will be attractive to the BMW demographic. It's always nice to have options.
Fun stuff!!

To be fair the BMW scooters look really good, personally I like them a lot. They seem to be a very good balance between performance, comfort and scooterability. Prices I have seen in Los Angeles are below $10,000 and per what I know the SilverWing cost just about the same at least new. But without trying them both I would not be able to say how good or how bad one is compare to the other.

It would be great if there was be some sort of review by someone who has or can ride both to be able to see how they compare not to say what is better or worse, since what is better for one might be worse for another, but to see what the differences are that would or could appeal more to one or the other rider. I am happy with the Silverwing at least for the time being but I can't say that its 10 past year old technology is fully competitive with newer one.

I won't be able to afford a new bike for a while but, like many here, I am very happy with my Silverwing, in fact I love it. It is a great and practical way to ride. And in truth the Silverwing can be found used for a lot less then any new ride which is a great advantage.

However I think that it is remarkable that BMW has worked out such scooter, it gives at least another view on the subject and also another choice on a transportation mean, but most importantly it shows bikers that it is "OK" to have and use a scooter. Yeah some (not me) still think that a scooter is NOT a real motorcycle...

People complain about the BMW looks but I think it looks fine. I like the styling, that said I am NOT in the market to trade off my SWing!!! I just hope the BMW helps the Maxi-scoot outlook!

Although BMW's are expensive, not cheap to keep, not as reliable as the Japanese stuff and this new scooter is huge------if they have the buffeting thing fixed.....THEN THEY HAVE SOMETHING! But until that is verified or known....then they just have another expensive scooter, with 12,000 mile belt changes and shims ? to adjust valves. I have been BMW owner since 1958 and know from experience with NEW BMW's, they have made some real unjunk. Since this thing has Kymco heart, I think a Kymco a better/cheaper deal.

And Kymcos are quite good quality.
If BMW fix some or all of the Swing's shortcomings, as noted in this forum, and don't introduce others just as grievious, they have something!

I can't see where the BMW scoot is worth $3k more than the SW. BMW hasn't been free of engineering problems either the well known shaft drive problems of their bikes for instance. Honda hasn't had a major design problem with their bikes for years. The SW has a track record, it's going to be a good while before BMW has one of its own. I wouldn't mind a single sided swing arm but not at the cost of adding a chain drive. The SW seems more practical with a belt drive from the engine to the rear of the scoot where a solid gear drive does the reduction duty. A pair of gears is a superior way to transfer power over chain drives. Gears don't need slack adjusters. They are also more compact. A chain from the belt drive to the rear wheel ala BMW means a larger compartment to keep oil sealed in. More chances for leaks.
I'll stick with Honda reliability and lower price. I'd trust a Goldwing over the BMW 1200LT any day and I'd trust my SW more than the BMW scoot at least for the next ten years.

exavid

I agree with your post above except we do not really know the MSRP on the 2013 Honda yet. I am guessing the difference will be closer to 1500-2000. Also yes I will keep my Silver Wing; it is proven and reliable but some will buy the German scooter simply because of three little letters: BMW. This is no different than buying "Guess" jeans or "Marlboro" cigs. Some just get enamored with a name... Always been that way and probably always will be.

How many Harley riders ever switch to Japanese bikes?

"How many Harley riders ever switch to Japanese bikes?"
Some of the smart and wise ones, but not many because of the hurd mentality and friendships formed. I "get" the friendship part, for sure. Nothing more important than friends.

According to one website on the BMW scoot the US price is going to be right at or slightly above the 12,000 mark. Not that it matters to me I'm a Honda geek and I never buy bikes new anyway. I like someone else to take the initial hit. Four or five years old is when I get interested in buying bikes. You get them nearly half price with plenty of trouble free use ahead.

I finally got a chance to see the BMW scoot. I can flat foot the swing but the BMW is way too high for me. The first patch of gravel I sit one foot in, I'd lay it down. The dealer said BMW sits all their riders high for visibility. There is no lowering kit available for the scoot like some of their other bikes.

I asked about the engine and he assured me that Rotax is building them. I have read otherwise.

What engine do they use?

Everything I have read is that Kymco is making the engines! Thanks for the update on the height. THAT is the main reason I got rid of my KLR and got the SWing is to be able to flat foot it!!!

How many Harley riders ever switch to Japanese bikes?

One Here

Windrider = Smart & Wise.

Virgina BMW Sales Person = Uninformed. Often bikes are high to gain ground clearance when leaned over. Our scoot's are very wide and don't have a great deal of clearance for lean angles. Lowering through suspension changes can dramatically alter handling. Ask me how I know: I messed up an SV 650 and had to put it back to get the handling back.
Love me Swing!

Windrider wrote:

How many Harley riders ever switch to Japanese bikes?

One Here

Another here!

yamascooter wrote:

Windrider wrote:

How many Harley riders ever switch to Japanese bikes?

One Here

Another here!

Ahhh we got all the smart ones on this forum?