Wow Honda - you guys draw short straws to have the worst intern design some basics ?

I'll skip the good parts for now (ok 600 feels nice compared to the Maj's 400, so once I can get the ugly raspy knock out of the CVT when hitting  the throttle on/off switch mode from the lights, there may be some fun factor left ..)

but moving on  HONDA yeah I'm talking to YOU Soichiro; you really incorporated some certified  amateur basic maintenance ergonomics / engineering here !

OIL CHANGES are a stupid mess - so you just  HAD to put the drain plug facing straight down.
And a YUGE plug too, so we are pretty much guaranteed a hot mess handful of smoking oil,

but that wasn't enough aggravation , you also built it so that spring & coarse screen come bounding out  into the waste bucket . stupid stupid stupid. That screen is going to save my engine? or even get dirty without a Major Malfunction ... nawwwww

I'm not even going to ramble on about the YUGE plug size - Great, the pan emptys in 3 seconds flat and yeah OK maybe the YUGE hex is round off-resistant,

but there are going to be a lot of hammerheads who think Large Wrench  = YUGE Torque.

No wonder you find reports the drain plug's threaded section getting sheared off, or people needing breaker bars to uncork it after Billy Skruyup down at the scooter shop has a go.

Really Soichiro, 15mm hex head would be more than  PLENTY (and just give us something else to grab ahold if that gets rounded off - plan AHEAD. In case I dont want to flip the bike over to drill out a biffed plug). Now I have to pack a ≈24 or so mm wrench on tour?  stupid stupid.

Better yet , why not put a separate / smaller drain bolt  low in the pan oriented a little more favorably for the driveway prone humble owner to unfasten and yet still get out of the way of the fouled dino blood (aimed out the the side kick stand side for enhanced draining purposes)

or even a center plug  in the monster sized cap ( win win win - more avoidable flow, Plan B in case plug gets stripped and keep that screen inside 99.9% of the time ).

Not to lose your face but Yamaha managed to do a small plug on a vertical wall, oriented to stream horizontally. IIR, thinking Suzi even got  that right ... BAD HONDA!  Maj gets by with about a 10mm dia plug plug I can easily a human sized socket on, AND get out of the way when striking crude.

The oil filter canister was a nice touch and not horribly spendy but then you dopes ran a hose right across it, blocking conventional grabby type tools from grasping the filter without hulking on that hose ! stupid stupid stupid. stupid stupid stupid.  

If that wasn't there, then I would forgive&forget that the filter is just the right size to slip (ie NOT grab) inside my pristine old HF 65~68mm oil filter  socket, and it maybe even soon nuf defeats the NEWer one you made me buy (current HF OF sockets are a little better casting shape now than the ones I got & successfully ignored for years now) . stuoooopid.

Stu. Pitt. Just like Brad's smarter brother

But the thing that really tugs my shorties ;

Just  "ATTEMPTED" my first fill up - and YOU Dopes put that blocker bar across the fill pipe, therefore  a CA-type vapor recovery nozzle can't be inserted far enough to seal AND make the insertion switches? I couldn't get the pump to run with the collar pulled back either at 3 stations !   

As far as I'm concerned, that's basically Recall fodder, where You owe Me  a revised gas tank; if you cant put gas in the thing every where in the contiguous 48 ... then suck on that cost awhile.

so ... now I had to carry a little trashy collar of getting-dirty PVC in the trunk, in case, you know,  I ever want to get gas out somewhere ? stupid stupid stupid.stupid stupid stupid.stupid stupid stupid.

stupid

I'll have to figure out how the bend that blocker bar enough to pass a standard gas dispense nozzle tip and simply get shorted out of a liter or two of design capacity. Without damaging the tank.

HIRE ME HONDA, I'll have this jiffy fixed before the next model year.  

This thing better be reliable & damn good fun after those introductory disappointments ! No wonder the manual urges you to go to the dealer for basics like air & oil ( which ain't happening )

PS you oriented the rear tire 90deg valve stem toward the disk side (then braced it there - ok that could be a nice do-hickey to prevent tearing the valve off) but there was a LOT more access room toward the CVT, more type of common air chucks would fit, and there a lot more safe space between me and the hot muffler,  if you put it toward the drive side. Stuuuup ... oh, hell, you get the picture

( oh yeah - loved the sizzly hot crossover exhaust pipe routed perilously close to the oil filter. Gawd I have to get out a Steel Mill Haz Mat suit just to swap oils.

Have you replaced the Air filter yet?

sort a , but that didn't rub me as raw yet. I just blew it out, it wasnt dirty. I did find where my hair must have gone.

I've carefully rinsed a lot of good paper filters like this (spritz some cleaner on them - I like Crud Cutter a lot now), paying heed to NOT rinse  junk in the induction direction .
then back rinse, & blow out ( still from "inside" ) as can do , let dry for awhile.

Do you always toss them? or rinse & repeat awhile too? Are the aftermarket ones any good ?

How long till they get really socked in ?  The drive side on the maj is famous for looking bad fast ( but running well IMHO, especially if you consider a dirty filter is effective filter, until you finall choke the flow out ), so I was prepared for a lot worse.

Yes taking the tupperware off is annoying, though very few screws ... (until your get to the filter, now THAT is practically unsinkable. )

If they had used only those larger size mushroom-into-grommet panel attachments every where I wouldn't mind, those are somewhat robust

Instead they used a couple mushroom/grommets, then switched to those two tiny metal tangs on fragile thin plastic pillars.STUPID .

If yours are like mine (ie they haven't -yet- broken off by spirited R&R,) but the metal pulls off every removal ...

try this: reshape the tang back to original, special attention so more 'tooth' digs in the plastic,  & closing the sides together to grasp;

THEN since THAT , STILL wont hold them in place, touch them w/ a soldering iron just enough so the tooths bed in the soon-to-fail plastic tab. That will hold them a short while.


Now at <1,2k ( yup , found a 09 with 1200mi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) the filter wasnt that dirty ( a Maj drive side filter will be a gooey looking mess by then). Another thing MrLou - the 400 Maj has TWO filters  about the same size as the ONE on this 600 SWing.  Somebody's maths is right maybe both. SWings looked kind of undersized, but I guess it runs. When you can find gas from a 1930s spigot that is

Wow, only two posts and you're on a rant. Welcome to the asylum. You're gonna love it here.

Why rave about dis-continued model?? SilverWing is old design, but for the most part works for what it is---an overweight and large sized scooter. Put it in this context, it is not bad----other choice for new big scooter is Burgman 650, Honda still has some leftover 2013 SilverWings in US-----SilverWing may be easier to work on than the 2 new Burgman 400's I bought and used.

You complained about Air Filter----this SilverWing (my second new one) Air Filter, I changed at 40,000---my choice, because of several dust storms in NM and TX and a pure dirt storm in Western TX.

As I always suggest, put some miles on, like 5,000 miles minimum, then complain and or make changes or buy another bike/scooter

do they really have some unsold 13s ? LOL, serves em right.

I didnt come down hard on the air filter, at least the snorkle isnt a grime hoover like the Maj left side. If there is enough air for the O2 sensor to breathe then fyne.

Yeah, I'll rag about the STUPID parts of the New to Me Scooty . Jolly fun. My thread / my rules

Especially that gas filler deal ; just how much bad-boss-karaoke did the fustercluck of nincompoops (that is a Fo'REAL honest "measurement word" , just look it up in your Funk & Wagnel ! ) have to standing ovate to keep their jobs after designing a gas tank that can't be filled in one of their most major markets, without resorting to a Homedepot snozzle / sippy cup of sorts.

Yeah, I think the least they should fix it or buy it back to mark down next to the spanky clean 13s LOL.
Its so very unnecessary... putting that bar there to protect the gas station from gobbling back some of your hard earned fuel...

Has any one successfully pulled out that cross bar ( successfully = without ripping a hole in the filler neck?) That seems like the Compromise / Queasy-Does-It

What a great efficiency enhancement. Guess you can't waste gas if you can't get gas IN it. Mines '09 - not like it was a prototype ! Somebody at Honda could have enquired into the status & future of gas pumpery.

The Big Berg ( are those tippled at 600lb ? felt like...) never tempted me, and I preferred the 400 Maj's overall engineering ( much more refined design from bigger or better teams, than 400 Berg, ) from the aluminum frame on up

I was kind of taken back by the sub-400lb load limit on the SWing. Guess that could be expected now that is clear its rides on same tires as the 400lb-sopping ( but 450lb payload, 400cc Maj),

With naught but a pair of 15mm risers, the Maj really accommodates too-tall me, more relaxed on it than the SWing , so far. Just kind of underpowered for the Thunderdome here.

I wont really have a useful thought until I work out on the CVT , mine is noisy at hard launch, hoping just lack of regular use has sliders sticky, etc. 1.2 Kmi in 7 years. yippy ki yeah!

I kind of got suckered, I thought for sure the ad on mine boasted ABS, which sounded super cool just super, I didn't suss out it wasnt there until a little later.

DUH where is that ABS idiot light that scares you until 5mpg or so.

Was a weird seller deal,priced well since DPO ( Dreaded Previous Owner) flitting around the world and the poor sister having to park it. The ad was deleted before I saved a pdf, and they claimed couldn't recover, but I was able to make a goodnuf case to get a few major beans back for the ABS omission or lack thereof.

I really like scooters but not love them; but, there is the bike you WANT and the bike you NEED, scooters fall somewhere in the needy category

I'm quite looking forward to your future rants, have you discovered yet that Honda have sneakily added another cylinder to the Silver Wing engine? Whatever were they thinking, when the regal Yamaha Majesty worked perfectly fine with one cylinder.

Maybe the short mirror arms will piss you off next, or you'll ride a few miles and discover that the OE windshield is absolute rubbish.

Please don't even think about fitting an aftermarket windshield from Givi, because there's every possibility that you'll have to pry off the windshield garnish with it's self-destructing holding tabs. Then delve into the innards where screws can mysteriously drop inside the bodywork never to be seen again. Then if your stress levels can take it, ... you'll have to drill two holes in the plastic to find the captured nuts to hold the metal brackets that come with the windshield/screen.

The clever and farsighted interns at Honda must have designed them into the Silver Wing nearly 20 years ago just to frustrate 'new to me' buyers like yourself.

Everyone else seems to manage the basics just fine, eventually so will you.

I am beginning to rethink my sanity when I am considering another SWing in my future riding. I had similar unkind thoughts about the designers, engineers and even the floor sweepers at Honda. I totally destroyed the tappett cover on my first oil change and cursed the hot oil splash and cursing that spring that holds the screen in, and on and on it went. I had a few other rants and I'm sure they are all covered here.
But I think back at all that and still believe that the SWing is a nice machine despite all the quirks. My new one is a 2007 US model with 3750 miles. It has had some decorative scratches and gouges already put in place by the PO , so I don't have to plan on those. I did on my previous one ! No ABS on this one, I'll just have to plan my stops more carefully; although my last stop was in milliseconds when the pick-up driver pulled an illegal U-turn as I was coming alongside passing him.

queasyrider you have me ROTFLMSAO, great post. NOW for fun and without a manual change the air filter on a 1800 cc Gold Wing or replace that silly L hose on the carbs of a 1500cc Gold Wing, I'll buy your book of tales on those two.

Hilarious!  You make good points about things we all have already discovered and adapted to over the years.  I found out about the bar in gas tank during a trip to California when I could not get fuel into my tank D'OH.  Finally figured out how to pull back the sleeve to insert life-giving petroleum. Whew.  Lots of good information on this forum and keep the rants coming!  

My theory is that engineers (car or bike) should be required to work on their own creations during design.  Things might get easier for ALL of us!!!

Wait 'till you decide to sell or trade...    All of these shortcomings get collected and discounted from your side of the sales equation. Might as well keep it and enjoy the ride knowing that the maintenance issues are developing your character and writing ability.

Still enjoying mine!

I never have any of those problems. Have the dealer do everything. Well, okay, I do add gas, and air to the tires all by myself.  Life is good.

DerrillW wrote:

Might as well keep it and enjoy the ride knowing that the maintenance issues are developing your character and writing ability.

It's surprising how many people spell Burgman incorrectly as Bergman, even owners and they've no excuse as it's stamped on the side of their scooters in big bold letters.

In a similar way I always to my maxi correctly as a Silver Wing not a Silverwing, SWing, Swing, S Wing or whatever yoof speak, text talk nonsense that's popular these days.

I make allowances of course for a certain country where the natives can't say aluminium, Jaguar, and Worcestershire correctly!

al u minium?

janitorj1 wrote:

al u minium?

Very good! The YouTube clips of we Brits pronouncing it correctly are very useful.

OK then "Jag-u-ar", and now try "Wuster-sher"

Hmmm I think the site ate my post. Again, welcome to the site and thanks for the critique. My personal favorite is the slop bar in the gas t ank. Even so, the Swing runs very well.

Meldrew wrote:

I make allowances of course for a certain country where the natives can't say aluminium, Jaguar, and Worcestershire correctly!

Said the man from Yorkshire where "the" doesn't exist! How does that work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVis

Meldrew wrote:

DerrillW wrote:

Might as well keep it and enjoy the ride knowing that the maintenance issues are developing your character and writing ability.

It's surprising how many people spell Burgman incorrectly as Bergman, even owners and they've no excuse as it's stamped on the side of their scooters in big bold letters.

In a similar way I always to my maxi correctly as a Silver Wing not a Silverwing, SWing, Swing, S Wing or whatever yoof speak, text talk nonsense that's popular these days.

I make allowances of course for a certain country where the natives can't say aluminium, Jaguar, and Worcestershire correctly!

Good points BUT my cars do NOT have a "bonnet" or "boot"!!! :lol!:

Welcome to silverwing600.com!

FYI - I have copies of advertisements by HONDA Motorcycle DEALERS who claimed ABS - pre 2010 ABS was an option on the Silver Wing in the USA. easiest way to verify is ask to see close up photo of the wheels - ABS bikes have a wheel rotation sensor with a slotted ring mounted on the hubs of the front an rear wheels. As far as I know all Silver Wings have Honda's "linked brakes" where when you squeeze the rear brake lever a front wheel brake piston is also applied.

Javel wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

I make allowances of course for a certain country where the natives can't say aluminium, Jaguar, and Worcestershire correctly!

Said the man from Yorkshire where "the" doesn't exist! How does that work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScELaXMCVis

I've just watched about a minute of that out of sync load of rubbish on YouTube and it's a minute of my life I won't get back. It was just plain weird, at times the characters sounded like stereotype West Country farm yokels, and they were butchering words familiar to me in old Cumberland dialect which are pronounced differently from the way those two were saying them. They also sounded nothing like people I've heard speaking in North Yorkshire,  rural or townies.

As Yorkshire regional accents go and they do vary a lot, they were about as authentic as Dick Van Dyke's feeble Cockney accent in Mary Poppins, or the comedy 'French' gendarme in 'Allo 'Allo.

Perhaps a BUrgman 650 (how's that Meldrew?)would be better for someone with such difficulties refueling. On the B650 the filler is on the side of the bike's rather large rump with a flap just like an auto. As for the oil drain, the Germans didn't do as well as the Japanese. My C650GT has three, count 'em three drains. One of which is cleverly aimed at the side stand spring. That requires a piece of foil to fabricate a spout to keep the hot oil from spewing all over the side stand and spring. The GT also has a clever oil screen that can be dropped into the engine behind that drain plug. That's certainly superior to the spring which only drops into the drain pan of hot oil on the Honda. Probably some lingering Teutonic irritation caused by the American entrance into WWII.
One thing I did to both of my Silver Wings (okay Meldrew?) was to remove the little locking tab on the fuel cap. I doubt many shifty types are running around stealing gasoline from four gallon bike tanks. Therefore the bother of a locking cap makes no sense to me. Especially when the key has to be held twisted to the left while replacing the cap with a right turn. Only takes a minute to remove the tab.

The Burgman 650 can be annoying to refuel, unlike most conventional maxi scooters with the filler cap somewhere on the tunnel, having the filler at the rear on such a heavy beast makes it next to impossible to brim the tank. You can't rock the big Burgman when it's on the centre stand to remove air pockets like you can with the Silver Wing or other maxi scooters I've owned.

Also if you have saddlebags/panniers fitted they have to be moved out of the way to refill the tank. Soft bags have to held out of the way while you fill the tank which can be awkward with a heavy bag, and a hard pannier like a Givi has to be unlocked and removed from the frame to get to the filler flap.

The car type filler flap is also vulnerable to accidental damage, I've spotted a few used 650 Burgmans parked up or for sale in dealers with the flap missing.

As for the oil strainer thimble and spring on the Silver Wing, of course it's going to drop into the drain pan with the hot oil, that's hardly a problem as it's the same set up that Honda used on the CN 250 Helix.

I myself never heard other Helix owners complaining about it being an inconvenience and unlike the Silver Wing it was an oil change every 2000 miles on the Helix. Sooner or later most savvy owner replaced the Honda oil drain plug for a much better magnetic one, unfortunately you can't do that on the Silver Wing.

Anyway it's easy enough to fish the offending bits out of the oil drain pan with a gloved hand or screwdriver and carry on with the oil change. It's bodging the removal of that large alloy oil strainer cap that causes most owners problems.

I really do enjoying you reminiscing about the Silver Wings you used to have, and the ingenious way you always twist things round to mention that BMW C650 GT you have now.

Always happy to bring such pleasure to you!

What happens when one comes in touch with real adversity?

One rises to the occasion. There are two schools of thought apparent on this forum. One is John Grinsel's "Buy it new and replace it soon", and the more popular, "it will last forever just like an axe. Just keep replacing the haft and head as needed". Some of us will tear down and repair on the theory that it's cheaper to fix than replace. If you start with a good machine such as the Silver Wing is regardless of a few quirks, and one that's been basically unchanged in over a decade you have a good machine. It's worthh repairing and these are basic machinery, nothing truly over complicated or difficult to work on. Some my favorite sources of parts and info are; Helm Inc. for Honda service manuals, Motogrid and Honda Direct Line as well as a Bike Bandit for OEM parts.

BTW - The natives of the country where the jaguar live pronounce the word differently from that of both British or American speakers. The Jag u ahr had it's apex in the 120 with a slight recovery in the early XKE. Since then it looks like any other car on the block. Too bad they never had the engine that they deserved.

On another maxi scooter forum predominantly made up of UK members, regularly changing scooters is normal practice for quite a few members. It's Springtime, they seem to have the money, there's plenty of choice of maxi, Trad, and commuter scoots so good luck to them. Not everyone has workshop facilities, the necessary mechanical skills, or even the interest and inclination to be messing about the oily bits.

Apart from 'Petrolheads' with small willies, I very much doubt if anyone cares much about what engine should have been in the Jaguar. We have a great selection of British, European, and Far Eastern manufactured cars here, Jaguar is just another historic prestige marque, they wouldn't even show up on my buying radar whatever purchasing budget I had to play with.


I'm off to the gym in a few minutes and there'll be the usual selection of Mercedes, BMW, and Audi's parked up along with the more run of the mill stuff. Hardly anyone drives those ridiculously large pick up trucks that y'all seem to like over the Pond.

There'll be dozens of cyclists out and about too.

I never thought 'willies' would enter this conversation. Perhaps you are 'projecting' as the psychologists would say? I do wear Large sized gloves which fit snugly if you get what I mean.

In the US some Jag-u-ahr's engines were considered unreliable and needing excessive service and repairs. There was a company in Seattle that removed the original engines from some models of Jag-u-ahrs and replaced them with Ford 289 V8s, not for improved horsepower but for better reliability. As far as I know there was no 'willie' problem with the cars other than with some of their engines.

I don't think they ever manufactured television sets in the UK because they couldn't make them leak oil!

I was going to make a suitable reply to your post, then I couldn't concentrate from laughing at the amount of weird junk you've added to a 14 year old Silver Wing.  Surely there's someone that manufactures a custom chrome plated hygrometer that you could fit to measure that awful Florida humidity.

Did you buy that 10% over contra spring from the rebels in Nicaragua, sorry Nica-rag-wa?

When it gets too humid in Florida they all go to the mountains for a spell of cooler dryer air. You've probably seen the Florida mountains, they're located at the intersections of their freeways. You know, overpasses.

Sidewinder.

Care to share with us your plan to add hard bags onto your bike?

exavid wrote:

When it gets too humid in Florida they all go to the mountains for a spell of cooler dryer air. You've probably seen the Florida mountains, they're located at the intersections of their freeways. You know, overpasses.

I lived in Boca for 1.5 years.  I always knew them as garbage dumps.  Easily found by looking for flocks of gulls.  I loved South Florida.  Loved riding around Lake Okeechobee.

Aluminium???  I don't think that one is on the Periodic Table:  "...derived from the ancient name for alum (potassium aluminum sulphate)" Then on the other hand:

"Aluminium or aluminum (in North American English)..."

This is getting really interesting....

I´m happy with mine!

Actually the aluminum vs. aluminium argument logically goes to the British pronunciation. Basically because -ium ending in naming metals in the periodic table is a recognized practice. The fault really belongs to Sir Humphrey Davey who first spelled it as 'aluminum' and then later went along with tie -ium ending to conform with other metals. In other words the whole thing lies with the British who couldn't make up their minds.

Sidewinder Pilot wrote:

I don't think they ever manufactured television sets in the UK because they couldn't make them leak oil!

That made me giggle

Sidewinder Pilot wrote:

I don't think they ever manufactured television sets in the UK because they couldn't make them leak oil!

I don't know about the set manufacturers, but some of the programme makers can make the sets leak drivel and rubbish!

I sincerely hope you fellows across the pond don't have TVs made by Lucas Electric.

exavid wrote:

I sincerely hope you fellows across the pond don't have TVs made by Lucas Electric.

In my early years racing Spitfires we referred to "Him" as the "Prince of Darkness"...

Yes indeed. Lucas is famous for inventing intermittent windshield wipers. Also intermittent headlights, ignition, starter, fuel pump, etc. My '57 MGA was well equipped with Lucas.