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 2011 Swing Trans weeping

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4 posters
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 1:53 pm

Hey all, I've been reading FAQ,s and little info on this item.
Bought this 2011 Swing with 6500 mi last April. It's my daily driver and I've got over 11k now. It's had this annoying oil seep onto the rear wheel and lower case. I replaces the rear tire and decided to find and fix the leak. Found the oil leak coming from the weep hole below the output shaft of the Trans.
Tried a short cut, used some "seal conditioner" to stop the leak, but that backfired! The inner and outer seals leaked badly! So now No choice, but to replace all seals. The red screw driver is to show the weep hole, I believe this hole is designed to allow an exit for oil seal failure that prevents oil from contaminating the rear brake system.
I found the variator faces have an unusual amount of wear?
Is this grooving typical? Will it limit the final drive speed?
What the heck, new belt and drive faces ordered along with seals. 2011 Swing Trans weeping Image17
2011 Swing Trans weeping Image18
2011 Swing Trans weeping Image19
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 3991
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 9236
Registration date : 2009-06-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 4:03 pm

Those grooves in the variator faces are definitely not normal. I'm not sure what would cause that problem on a scoot with so few miles as to not even reach the belt change interval.

Any chance the scoot was in a flood? Flood water & grit might explain that suspicious damage to the drive train. If that's any possibility I'd replace those final drive bearings and crankshaft seal as well.

Is that the screwdriver tip protruding into the bearing cavity in the second photo?

Tim
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 4:13 pm

Yes that's the head of the screw driver, showing the placement of the weep hole. No real evidence of water damage, or grit. I know many have posted 16,000mi, + belt change innervals so I really don't understand the grooves. They are mainly at the top and bottom of the belt travel. Also the bike tops out at 95mph, so I'm hoping for a little more with full belt travel.
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4816
Registration date : 2010-03-03

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Swing Trans weeping    2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 7:00 pm

Hello Stainless 601.First I have to give you credit for going that far into the final drive,most have not gone this deep. I believe the seal
that you are showing (page 11-3 of the service manual) in your picture is the culprit.
The weep hole prevents the build up of oil and causing more damage to the brake clutch shoes. Hope this is of help to you. Howard
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4816
Registration date : 2010-03-03

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 8:47 pm

Just another thought as long as you have gone this far,be sure to lube the small needle bearing inside(I use wheel bearing grease) the
driven face (page 10-14). Howard
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 3991
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 9236
Registration date : 2009-06-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 9:34 pm

Just curious, but did you remove the Clutch Bell (aka Clutch Outer)? If so, how?

Also, did you first notice the oil drip coming from the belt case or from the final drive shaft area? If from the belt case then, as Howard mentioned, the culprit would probably be the seal behind the Clutch Bell. But if a crankshaft seal leak that oil would be running down the inside of the belt case to exit at the hole at the belt case split immediately below the clutch assembly (aka Driven Pulley) --the same location where oil from a Clutch Bell seal leak would appear.

Please keep us informed. We have all benefitted from shared information.
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 pm

First noticed the leak onto the rear wheel. Cleaned everything and isolated it at the weep hole. Only after experimenting with an oil leak additive, the inner seal started leaking onto the clutch shoes. Then I resigned to disassemble the Trans to replace all seals.
Used a 3 jaw type external puller to remove the clutch drum.
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4816
Registration date : 2010-03-03

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2016 11:13 pm

I have been looking for this u tube video to send you. It is in Italian
but I think you will get the Gist of it. Howard




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S176tZ41h8
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2016 7:00 pm

Thanks for the link, I'm sure some info was lost due to foreign language. All in all very good demonstration of final drive tear down.
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2016 1:02 pm

2011 Swing Trans weeping Image202011 Swing Trans weeping Image20
Got the parts in, ordered online through Babbitts online parts. All OEM stuff. Completed the job and put 100+ miles on it going to work and back last week. NO Leaks!  Was pleasantly surprised that cruising speeds I have dropped 3-400 RPMs due to the new varriator clutch faces and belt. Hope that this continues.
Thought I'd show the "special tools" required to complete this job. The puller for the clutch drum is from Harbor Freight @ $20.00 and the others are made from scraps in the garage.
Glad to be back on the scoot, the weather is awesome this time of year here.
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Reg
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Reg


Number of posts : 101
Age : 68
Location : Brockville Ont. Canada
Points : 2109
Registration date : 2016-08-07

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2016 2:57 pm

Is the 4 1/2 to put the clutch drum back on?
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2016 4:17 pm

Yes, you can use most any pipe that's 1&1/2 inch inside diameter, I used PVC pipe but it was hard to hold while pressing with the washers and nut method. Id use metal pipe next time.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 3991
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 9236
Registration date : 2009-06-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 17, 2016 8:53 pm

For future reference, what is the size of that puller (how long are the arms)? Do you have a HF item # for the puller?

I'm afraid that if you switch to 1.5" id metal pipe for that Clutch Bell installer that you'll really booger up the threads on the Clutch Bell. Maybe use a metal pipe with some kind of a PVC adapter at the end.

Tim
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 18, 2016 8:58 am

Jumper, your probably right about about the threads course the plastic pipe fit very tight but those threads are for the factory puller. At $200.00 I'm sure to never use them. I'm fairly sure this is the item I purchased.2011 Swing Trans weeping Image10
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Stainless601
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Stainless601


Number of posts : 18
Age : 65
Location : Orlando
Points : 2045
Registration date : 2016-07-12

2011 Swing Trans weeping Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2011 Swing Trans weeping   2011 Swing Trans weeping I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 18, 2016 9:02 am

Sorry that picture got too grainy to see the #. The item # is 69224 @ $ 17.99.
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