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 OIL for 2002 FSC600

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GHM-PM
exavid
Ishkatan
moonshiner
tinman
AV-40
yammer
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yammer
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25, 2013 1:09 pm

I am about to replace the oil of my 2002 FSC600. As I bought mine without the user manual I don't really know whether to replace the oil with semi or fully synthetic oil. I guess the newer Silver Wings come with fully synthetic but not sure about the older versions. I do appreciate some more info regarding the oil type and capacities of the engine and transmission. Thanks for any help.
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AV-40
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25, 2013 4:55 pm

Recomended oil is 10W-30 or 10W-40 depending on ambient temperatures you will encounter between changes. In Alabama and Florida, 10W-40 is prefered by me. As for conventional or synthetic, either will work. Last I heard, Honda makes no recomendation as to either conventional or synthetic oil. The only caution Honda prints is to not use oil marked as "energy conserving" or as of late, "resource conserving". Such markings, if any are present, will be found within the circle printed on the oil container.
Ask two people and you will get two opinions on synthetic vs conventional oil. Most however will agree that frequent oil & filter changes are as important if not more so, than type of oil. Oil needs to be clean, and as of today, oil is cheaper than a new engine.
Having said that, I feel 2,000 mile oil changes are what works best for me for peace of mind relative my Silver Wing.
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tinman
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSat May 25, 2013 10:22 pm

I use 10 /30 or 14 /40 synthetic what is on sale and the wix 51356 filter the xtra long filter and change the oil at 12k kl .All my riding is 95% HWY,and my oil look's clean when I replace it.I don't burn any oil between oil change.
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moonshiner
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 12:42 am

I use 10/40 mobile 1 motorcycle oil , I have used Honda oil in the past but at 12$ a quart its expensive , the mobile 1 seems to do the same job at half the price, I have used mobile 1 synthetic car oil too , but I prefer, the motorcycle oil , keeping your oil and filter changed regularly is the life of your motor , I change my oil and filter about every 3,500 miles , and the plugs every tire change which is about 7,000 miles ...
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Ishkatan
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 1:27 am

Oh shoot. I'm glad I am reading this board.

And do I believe the "official" Honda Service Manual or the Owner's manual?

My 2002-2007 Service manual specified 10W-30 SG or greater (page 1-5), with no mention of energy conserving.

My dealer only had 10W-40 Honda oil. The oil write up on the web says higher letters are better and the Service Manual did not say NOT to use "Energy Consirving" oil. So I used some 10W-30 SM Shell energy conserving oil I had sitting on the shelf....

Luckily you guys got me thinking and checking. The owner's manual says 10W-40 SG or higher and it says not to use Energy Conserving oil..... Uh Oh.

Do I change my oil or do I go 3-4,000 miles or when it gets dirty? I have maybe 40 miles in 2 trips on the Energy Conserving oil so hopefully it is not too late. Prior oils were all GN4.

Hmmm.... I am seeing several other discrpencies between the Service Manual and the Owners Manual.

Owerns Manual:
- SG or higher except oil labeled as energy conserving
- SAE 10W-40, JASO T 903 standar MA or MB
- Pro Honda GN4 4 stroke oil, HP4 or HP4M (without or with Molybdenum)
- Service Interval: 4000 miles.

Service Manual:
- SG or higher
- NO indication not to use except oil labeled as energy conserving
- SAE 10W-30, JASO T 903 standar MA
- Pro Honda GN4 4 stroke oil, or equivalent
- General Service Interval: 4,000 miles.
- Oil service Interval: 8,000 miles

(Been doing my changes at 4,000 miles anyway.)

My other thought and what I thought when I used the energy conserving oil was that non-energy conserving oils are typically recommended for motorcycles because the clutch plates and transmission are using the same oil and it makes the clutch plates slip. Since Honda is not using an oil bathed clutch plate it should be OK to use the energy conserving oil...

So... How do I verify if the instructions in the owners manual are "general" and might not apply fully to the Swing? Or do I just throw in the towel and get whatever the Honda dealer has or other SG oil... And which manual is "right"....
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moonshiner
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moonshiner

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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 2:05 am

these are hard working engines , I would drain the energy conserving out right away , it dose not provide the protection these motors need ,it thins out and becomes broken down and useless in 500 miles or less , I always just use a motorcycle grade SC or SJ cause I can be sure its not energy conserving ...
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exavid
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 2:17 am

The only reason not to use energy conserving or friction reducing oils in a motorcycle is because of the wet clutch. That kind of oil can make a wet clutch slip. These bikes don't have a wet clutch so that kind of oil can't hurt the engine. I've run DELO 15W40 oil in all the motorcycles and vehicles I own. Most people don't ride bikes in real cold weather, somewhere around 25F is my preferred limit on my Goldwing mainly because of the possibility of serious ice on the road. Very few of us ride in temps over 115F so that weight of oil works well, light enough for low temp starts, heavy enough to hold its viscosity in hot weather. These engines are not high performance machines. Honda builds most of their non-sports bikes with engines designed very conservatively. The maximum rpms are low compared to high performance bikes, the compression ratios are very moderate allowing lower octane gasoline to be utilized compared to high performance motorcycles. They are built this way for long life and reliability. Being water cooled they operate within a narrow heat range compared to air cooled engines. This also gives a long service life.
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tinman
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 4:03 am

exavid gave you good advice , no meed to panic.Next oil change get the oil that will give you peace of mind .I change oil at recommended 8k oil change.the swing is a bullet proof engine.
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yammer
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 7:27 am

Thanks for all your replies, lots of info came out of this regarding oil, although no one mentioned what specific oil they use in their transmission. I normally use Castrol Power 1 GPS in my other bikes, so I would use that for the Silver Wing too and I guess use it for the transmission as well.
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GHM-PM
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 8:45 am

Last oil change I used Kendall 10W-40 Titanium oil. Designed for cars and is an "energy conserving" oil. As exavid stated above we have no wet clutch so I felt it was worth a try. I also changed the final drive oil with the same stuff. New Honda filter and presently approaching 3K on the oil. Looks good still and the Wing runs fantastic; no oil loss yet.

The only time I used a bit of oil was the after break-in oil was Rotella 15W-40, used this on my KLR. But on my Yosemite trip last year I actually had to add a pint of oil. None used before or since so will save the Rotella for my CT-90's!!!
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RArch
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 9:36 am

I use Motul 5100 10w40 Semi-Synthetic in both the engine and final drive.
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Ishkatan
Super Scooter Rider
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Ishkatan

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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 10:25 am

My original thinking was the same as Exavid, particularly since the Service Manual did not mention avoiding energy conserving oil. My thought is that Honda simply used the same writer / language for the owner's manual as they do for their other motorcycles, which do have clutches.

I do run my engine a bit hard (I think) often going for 10-15 miles at 6 rpm (70-80 mph). Since my mpg is down to 41 (from 51 when I got it and rode slowww.. ) I figure I am working it...

I did use Honda GN4 10W-40 for the rear - had it left over from the last oil change... Smile
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yammer
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 11:43 am

On a related issue on whether a motorcycle specific oil is better than the automotive counterpart here is a good read on the subject.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm
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tinman
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 1:01 pm

Use the same engine oil , that is what they recommend . 3 once is all you need unless you do a tare down.I use a old 3 once glue bottle and a peace of aquarium air hose and it over flows a little when the bottle is empty.
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Gyro
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 1:32 pm

yammer wrote:
On a related issue on whether a motorcycle specific oil is better than the automotive counterpart here is a good read on the subject.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

Very interesting read, especially considering that the biggest wear factor on the oil seems to be induced by a motorcycle's transmission gears, which a S'wing lacks. I am tempted to save a few bucks when it comes time to change the engine oil on mine.
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yammer
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 3:49 pm

The most interesting fact from that report regarding oil viscosity is the following extract:

The fastest and most significant drop in the viscosity of petroleum-based oils used in motorcycles occurs during the first 800 miles (or less) of use.

And there we are at the shop trying to decide if we should get 10W-40 0r 15W-50 oil Laughing
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rollsroyce250
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 8:24 pm

tinman wrote:
I use 14 /40 synthetic

I think you might need reading glasses.
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tinman
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 8:34 pm

Pushed the wrong button stiff finger. Smile
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exavid
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2013 11:29 pm

Viscosity loss is a fact of life in an engine sharing a sump with the gear box but even without that one of the reasons for an oil change isn't viscosity loss but combustion byproducts that get past the piston rings and accumulate in the lube oil. Some are acidic some are water vapor from the air since the crankcase is vented to atmospheric pressure. That kind of stuff can pit finely machined bearing surfaces over time. Regular oil changes help reduce this kind of damage. That's one reason I stick with petroleum based oils. The stuff lubes well and is much less expensive than synthetics so one is likely to change it more often. To get any real benefit out of synthetic oils you have to use them for long periods.
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jmaslak
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OIL for 2002 FSC600 Empty
PostSubject: Re: OIL for 2002 FSC600   OIL for 2002 FSC600 I_icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2013 10:42 am

The anti-foaming requirements for motorcycle engines has me still using motorcycle oils. I am suspecting the other properties (no friction modifiers, sheer resistance) are not needed in the Swing's engine design. As for synthetic vs non-synthetic, I use a blend due to wanting the better low temp performance - I want oil moving around as soon as I crank the engine on a cold day, to minimize metal against metal wear.
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