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 Tools to Pack for Trip

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OLD HICKORY
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PostSubject: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:04 pm

I am planning on taking a rode trip, next month on my Silverwing. I was wondering if anybody out there may have a list of the correct tools that it would take to replace a drive belt on the road if need be. I don't want to take every tool I own just to make sure I have the right ones for the job. I removed the belt to install sliders and change the rear drive oil some time ago but did not take notes on the tools used. As a side note, I stashed my new belt in one of the side doors under the seat that gets you to the rear lights. It's out of the way now. Thanks in Advance, OH


Last edited by OLD HICKORY on Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:21 pm

The most important tools to take is a credit card and cell phone. Tire plugs and a small 12V tire inflator wouldn't be a bad idea either. I wouldn't carry much in the way of tools for any major work such as changing a belt. Having a spare belt with you is good but you can always pick up a couple cheap tools to do a job at a Walmart or Harbor Freight. The credit card and phone can get you and the bike to a shop or tool source. A tow truck or renting a U-Haul van can get your bike to a Honda dealer or where ever you need it to go.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:35 pm

Road Side belt change on SilverWing=real pain as a pulley has to come off. Impact wrench??

I take tools to remove both front and rear wheels---in event wheel and tire need to go to tire shop for repair from inside.

Spare belt good idea to have along a dealers do not stock them----Belt breakage not common on these rubber band drive scooters=one underway broken belt in now over 300,000 rubber band drive miles----Helix in WV----Helix belt can be changed without pulley removal. Real plus!!

Since all of my scooters since 1990 have been purchased new, I know their maint. history. 20,000 mile change interval ha been working for me---As I ride a lot, wear on belt comes quickly, age of belt not factor in my case
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:35 pm

I don't recommend an impact wrench - it's not good on all the precision parts and bearings in the engine. You are basically hitting these things with a hammer when you use an impact wrench on them.

My advice: replace the belt before you go if you're worried about it. I don't know of anyone who has had one fail before Honda says to change it. They are exceptionally well designed.

If you still want to take tools to replace it, you need something to hold the pulley (lots of ideas on this forum), a torque wrench, and the right size socket for the front pulley bolt. The torque wrench is not optional. IIRC, you also need some oil to lubricate the threads of the pulley bolt (this is a really important step, even though it sounds trivial). Also make sure you know what torque value you're supposed to be using.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:06 pm

Torque is 76 ft#.You can get oil off your dip stick for the bolt.A breaker bar and 2 sockets.Allen wrench 2 sizes? Varo holding tool.A belt.You can use a torque wrench when you get home.Thats all I'll be hauling after the 16k on belt.


Last edited by Mudnman on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:54 pm

You can't use a torque wrench when you get home. If you tighten too much, you'll damage that special bolt (look at the inside lip of the bolt). The bolt head is designed in such a way as to lock in place without a lock washer - Honda actually has a patent on that bolt. But the bolt will be destroyed if over torqued (and will, ironically, thus loosen) and will come loose if undertorqued - and it has very little tolerance for variation. If that bolt is installed in a way that doesn't prevent overtorquing, it is ruined and must be replaced (even if the threads look fine). It's a UBS bolt (UBS = Uniform Bearer Stress I think, not a company name) and the head can be bent by overtorquing - and will not serve it's function of locking in place if undertorqued. The key to understand the UBS bolts is simple: torque needs to be proper (hence the need to oil the threads).

Don't mess with this bolt without a torque wrench! Even if you know someone who got lucky without using one. This isn't a "as long as it is tight, it's fine" bolt.

Also, torque is 76 ft lbs, definitely not 176 ft lbs (I just looked it up because 176 seemed high).
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Mudnman
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:48 am

Haha yah 76,I fixed that.Thanks for the bolt lesson.A modern Vespa varo uses a nut that is only to be used once.The nut has the same features as the bolt on Honda.
I'll still do a road side change if belt ever breaks without a torque wrench.And check it at home.If over torqued I'd just get a new bolt.
Happy Trails
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:56 am

exavid wrote:
The most important tools to take is a credit card and cell phone. Tire plugs and a small 12V tire inflator wouldn't be a bad idea either. I wouldn't carry much in the way of tools for any major work such as changing a belt. Having a spare belt with you is good

A tow truck can get your bike to a Honda dealer or where ever you need it to go.

+1 on this one.  

I don't even carry a spare tire for my trailer or the tools necessary to remove the rim from the trailer.  If my bike is disabled on a camping tour, I will call a local motorcycle dealer and let them handle it.

I have road side assistance through the GWRRA which will pay for the towing and a night or two in a motel isn't gonna break my bank.  I have never had a catastrophic failure on the road, but if I ever had a transmission or a motor go bad, or a serious accident on tour, I would sell the bike to a junk yard after stripping my goodies, pack my belongings in boxes and ship my stuff home then take the bus or fly depending on the circumstances.  Or I might buy a used bike off of Craigslist there and continue my journey.

I learned a long time ago that I should never love something that can't love me back.  A motorcycle is just a mode of transportation.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:03 am

Trip----trouble---often local dealer can/will screw your bike up.----middle of trip to BC, carried spare tire with (pain in butt) had dealer change tire---muffler dropped, wrong air pressure, etc. on my Burgman 400 recently.

Trailer tires....for trailer bikers...riding is the deal I thought. Pull trailer not necessary with SilverWing as there is plenty of carrying room
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:18 am

john grinsel wrote:
often local dealer can/will screw your bike up.

A rather sweeping statement!

Why should one's own dealer be the only person in the world competent enough to fix a bike?

If I were to break down in your neck of the woods, should I avoid your dealer, just because he's not mine?



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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:37 am

US dealer in repair shop=terrible. Most of the help drive pickups to work, ride only on test rides. UK maybe better----Germany?? they are parts changers. Japan=good, Korea=wonderful as bikes/scooter are in commercial use and need to be kept going.
Having purchased over 75 new bikes since 1955, ridden a lot---I stand by my statement.

There are good professional mechanics out there, but few are far between----I can think of 2---Dalton Georgia (Suzuki),EauClaire Wis (Kawsaki/HD).

Buy a new bike in US=better take it home to make sure everything I right/safe--Germany not much better. Italy they are ok as well as Japan or Korea.

Mexico/Central America---maybe crude, but get you on road and oh, Canada better than US
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:59 am


A torque wrench takes about the same room as a breaker bar, and can be bought for about $10 if you look around (and if you don't want to carry it, it can be bought from any Wal-mart or borrowed from any auto parts store for free or very little money).  That's what I'd carry (if you get home and the bolt is loose, that doesn't mean you didn't overtighten it - since overtightening will allow it to loosen).  These are critical torques.

I do agree with John that I'm not a fan of most people working on my bike (but disagree on parts availability - they are very available, and belts are stocked by, it seems, most USA dealers).  But if I didn't own the tools to do so, I'd take it to someone who did.  Maybe they will use them, maybe they won't, but if I don't have them I know I won't use the tools.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:25 am

I agree with most of Mr Grinsel's comments regarding the 'quality' of dealer services. That said, given the amount of SWs sold here in the US, it is not surprising that their service departments and mechanics are unfamiliar with model.

From the very beginning I knew more about the SW than the Honda dealer I purchased it from. Two months later I went back to the shop a minor problem and then had to tell them how to fix it as well as quote chapter & verse from the FSM and yet still had to pay a service bill. It was then that I decided that I'd be doing my own service & repair.  Now at 80,000 miles I guess I did something right.

Oh, and regarding Trip Tools, there's nothing wrong with carrying a spare (used) belt, and I sure would take a tire plug kit and a some means of adding air. Others can wait by the side of the road for the recovery truck to take them to the shop; I'll be half way to Manitoba by then.

Here is a YouTube video showing an emergency road side belt change using minimal tools. It's in Italian, but a great tutorial never the less: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-G_4xK1QCeM

Tim

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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:12 pm

More paranoia about belt breakages no doubt generated by reading too many posts on here. I'm impressed by all these claims of changing the belt by the side of the road with a few selected tools... if it's not sheeting down with rain, or at night, or if you don't get wiped out by another vehicle as you work on your stricken scooter.

Try pushing it a couple of hundred feet at home in your helmet and with all your riding gear on first and see how you feel, as out on the road you may have to push it a darn sight further to find a safe place to work on it.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:26 pm

Getting a good shop to work on a bike can be problematical. In the US most Honda dealers don't sell many Silverwings or Goldwings so service on those bikes can be a problem. Most of the Honda mechanics work on dirt bikes, dual sport and such for the most part as well as sport bikes. I'd say you have a better chance of getting good work done on a Silverwing than on a complex big bike like the Goldwing. I very rarely have anyone work on my bikes because at least I know enough to look in the service manual for the details and follow the factory guidance rather than thinking I know all about it. Some dealerships in highly populated areas might get enough work on the SW and GW but most don't see them often which prevents much familiarity with these machines.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:18 am

What would be problematical for a trained Honda mechanic in a Honda dealership working on a Silver Wing? The engine is a basic liquid cooled 4-stroke, 4-valve DOHC parallel twin and that engine configuration has been used by Honda for many years. So has EFI, and the Honda CBS/ABS brake system is standard on many other machine in the Honda line up.

Honda workshops also have a range of special tools for their mechanics to use, they can get all the techinical info they need from a database. The only thing I say frustrates and annoys mechanics is having to remove and replace the Tupperware without breaking tabs.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:12 am

Adding on Belt breakage----when SilverWing first came out belts breaking was un-common as the bikes were new and low miles----now as SilverWing ... in its end phase, most activity is with older bikes/unknown maint. history/few new left overs being sold----I feel carrying a spare belt good idea for serious riding. My experience, all OEM belts, not monkey with weights, etc----one broken belt on trip in 300,000 rubber band drive miles. I find 20,000 mile change intervals works for me with OEM parts. All of my scooters since 1990 bought new, known maint. history, none kept over 50,000 miles but in my opinion SilverWing will go well beyond 100,000 miles------I just don't want the hassle of running old bike as my prime transport.

I think older scooter, probably low miles, having sat around and then used for serious trip--aged belt should be changed before leaving. I hate walking.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:45 am

I take only basic hand tools on a trip. Tire plugs and compressor is good but if I travel with a group simply make sure at least one of us has them. If you prepare (maintain) your scoot before a long trip you should have no issues. I do not carry spare tires or tools to remove the same. I have AAA +Motorcycle so I can be towed into a shop and let THEM fix the tire! Do NOT start a trip at 16K w/o a belt change that would be folly.

So far I have taken three over 1200 mile trips on my SWing and no mechanical issues on any of the trips. And yes I carry a phone and a credit card!!! Just in case  Laughing 
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:40 am

What happened to hand pumps----not too smart to run battery down on bike that cannot be kick started or push started...can leave you in the middle of no-where and not start until jump start source is found.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:27 am

Small hand pumps were part of the tool kit's on MZ's and older Airhead BMW's, I've still got the one from my old R100/7. Have you tried pumping about 30 psi by hand into a motorcycle or scooter tyre with one? You're invariably knackered by the time you've 10-15 psi into a flat tyre. You can buy small foot pumps but they're hard work too, I've got a recharcheable Airman I carried around for a few years and didn't use that much.

I'd say the best solution is to treat your tyres with Ultraseal or similar treatment and save yourself the hassle.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:09 am

Melvyn wrote:
I'd say the best solution is to treat your tyres with Ultraseal or similar.

I'm with you on that one.  Wink

I believe that the UK Royal Mail uses tyre sealant in all of it's vehicles. The incidence of punctures has dramatically reduced, and the time savings have more than offset the outlay.




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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:56 pm

John, I use a battery pump. I've never used it except once to figure out how it works, but should I need to use it in the boonies somewhere, I will start the Swing while I run it. No battery problem.

If your tire is flat *AND* you can't somehow run the engine, you have bigger problems than a pump will fix. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:28 am

Starting good idea-----I have hand pump.....have cheap small electric pump....tried it and stored it rather than carry=not so smart but hand pumps have worked for me for 61 years of daily riding.

Ride enough and there will/can be tire problems underway and the in the middle of no-where......nice to be able to get going on your own.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:19 am

- straps
(You will need a flatbed and they only carry chains)

-fixaflat and rubber and glue to fix most flats.
(If you are in the rain you are screwed cause it will not bond safely)

-phone and or satelite gps messenger at your local camping place.
(Inexpensive little device. You are places with no signal it will save ur life. )

-fuel  
(Get as many camping fuel bottles from you camping store. I have some red bottles up to a half gallon. I carry 1 gal of fuel all the time )

- you want to get fancy carry front and back spare tires.

-you should always carry a new belt with you. Unless you want to wait for a week somewhere in a run down motel for parts  

Any other tools I found them useless.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:59 pm

Are you guys towing a trailer?
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:17 pm

LN wrote:
- you want to get fancy carry front and back spare tires.

You must be going on one hell of a trip to recommend carrying a spare back tyre, don't you Darkside fans already get 20,000 plus miles from a car tyre. Isn't that the reason for fitting one?  Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:21 pm

To quote Waspie from way back, credit card and cell phone - and also for me, insurance company recovery card and phone number!
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:40 pm

Austin to Seattle
Austin to Florida
Spare tires, fuel and belt are a must.
Oh yeah I almost forgot. A quart of oil.
There is no low oil indicator. Its only for overheating.
I once had a leak form the right side gasket. It took a while until I remembered to check level. I learned my lesson so now I do a walk around every other refuel, also looking for nails.

Don't ride at night unless you have a flir thermal imaging camera.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:57 pm

I can't imagine taking spare tires along... Start with fresh rubber and barring road hazards you should be fine. Austin-Seattle round trip is appx. 4600 miles, well within the range of a SW rear tire. Since I got nearly 11K on my rear tire you could most likely do the whole trip on same tires... Besides that is what the credit card is for...  What a Face 


Oh and I am at 13K and still the original front tire.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:00 pm

Tire wear is not the problem .
A sliced tire is. Not all stores have one in stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:10 pm





I took spare new tire, bought at right price on recent trip Chattanooga to Vancouver BC and back:
#1 knowing dealers do not stock tire I want or need
#2 got new tire at price I wanted and the type I like
#3 knowing tire on rear would need changing somewhere in the 6,000 mile plus trip and not wanting to waste miles on tire that was already mounted

End result: probably could have safely returned home without tire change. AS ROADSIDE MOUNTING OF TUBELESS TIRE DIFFUCULT IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE, HAD SHOP DO IT........BUT NEVER AGAIN!! They butchered my bike!!

61 years of doing this and over 1.5 million miles=probably better idea to start trip with fresh tires from home....and waste a little rubber. Did this for trip to Alaska about 15 years ago----had fresh set of Kenda, waiting in friend's garage near Seattle----put them on, made and completed trip with no tire troubles. Alaska roads can be hard on tires----Kendas tough








3
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:23 pm

john grinsel wrote:
Starting good idea-----I have hand pump.....have cheap small electric pump....tried it and stored it rather than carry=not so smart but hand pumps have worked for me for 61 years of daily riding.

Ride enough and there will/can be tire problems underway and the in the middle of no-where......nice to be able to get going on your own.

Any body use the roadside plug with CO2 cartridge?  This would be a temporary patch for small holes. Enough to get you to a shop to do a better patch and/or replace your tire. Might even get you home to do the work yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:29 pm

pumps are better than cartridges....which always seem to run out before job is done.

plugs only temp repair----to get you to place where tire can be repaired from inside by tire pros or thrown away.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:51 pm

On a round trip between Western Oregon and North Carolina on my '93 Goldwing I took no tools other than the Honda kit that came with it other than a hose to use the bike's compressor for tire inflation and tire plugs. Never had to use either one. Never carried extra oil either. Why? If you have a leak so serious that you have to add some during the day you'd have a leak big enough to cover the rear of the bike. A quick look at the rear end and tires at rest stops would show that long before it got serious. If the oil was lost more rapidly than that it's not likely the extra quart would be of much help. I'll reiterate that it would be a good idea to have a spare belt if your bike has over 10k on the one in use. In that case I'd change the belt and carry the old one. The real trick to touring is to carry the least you can get by with. It's not that anyone is crossing the Gobi. Besides it's almost guaranteed that what ever spare part you carry will not break. It's always the one you don't have. The Silverwing is probably the MOST reliable of all the Maxies. Maybe not the greatest performer or even the best riding but it is definitely one of the most reliable and dependable of all the big scooters. Burgman 650s have dicey transmissions, the BMW 650CT has some issues with the EFI and shuddering clutches. As far as I know Honda has pretty well perfected the SW over it's long production run.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools to Pack for Trip   Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:39 am

Adding: In US dealers can be few and far between and not convenient to use/get to.

Honda fair number of dealers, Suzuki less, Vespa (when is last time you saw dealership?) HD pretty good.

Honda was wonderful when HRC was a going thing. Bike broke, warranty, they would come get you, pay room and eats and get you on the road.

So bikes are different than cars----even to the point bike dealerships are closed on Mondays. I am careful in new car purchase---my Hyundai Genesis has jack and spare tire---My BMW Coupe went bye bye as soon as warranty ran out----no spare and run flat tires that almost nobody can fix to get you going.

Point: you can take long car trips and pretty much rely on dealers to bail you out. Bikes? best to be prepared help self, etc.
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Greysilver
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 473
Age : 72
Location : Arizona
Points : 2195
Registration date : 2014-04-08

PostSubject: tools to take on a trip   Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:51 pm

I would pre wire my battery for a trickle charger. The one I had also allowed for a jump.
A tire seal kit is necessary. A flashlight, matches and a knife will keep you out of the  stone age by several thousand years as you stand beside the road waiting for Godot or some cheery soul to help you out. Here in the southwestern summer water is crucial! I have never broken down on a Honda but I did have a battery cable work loose once.
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Tools to Pack for Trip
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