LED Headlights

New today from Lewis at Electrical Connection.
"LED headlight bulbs. This is the real deal. Not some low output wannabe. First up is the H7 Honda type. Next up...H4 dual hi/low."

From the way the add is written it looks like the Silverwing would need one H7 kit for both the high and low beam

http://electricalconnection.com/other-lighting/led-hl-h7-honda.htm

This is an interesting alternative.
I would have to do a direct comparison with the aftermarket Xenon kits to determine usefulness.
After all if I'm going to spend money on changing out stock, I want the most for my money.
Also I'm not sure what unit of measurement I would be using to judge.
 
While this would definitely cut the amount of power used, headlight power is already planned for on the bike. Reduction in power requirement would only be important if I were taxing the power generation capabilities of the wing overall with accessories.
 
I also notice most everything he sells is for Goldwing.
 
I have to wonder what that fan is for and where it goes.  I read the description.
I can't see any room for it inside the headlight or any reason for it anywhere else.
Usually a headlight is sealed except for where you put the bulb in, so I can't imagine getting it inside the headlight.  I don't get that system.
Got to wonder about the heat effect of any light that generates enough heat to need a fan.  I thought LEDs were relatively cool bulbs.
 
Dan

Or eBay for 99.99

Still very expensive.
A concern I would have is over the low current draw, 2A instead of 5A. For both bulbs you're looking at 6A less draw than stock bulbs. On the surface that sounds like a good thing. However, as has been mentioned before, the Swing uses a crappy, cheap method of voltage regulation from the stator and charging system. In a nutshell, the charging system always puts out its maximum rated current at all times. Any excess current is dumped into the voltage regulator so the battery is not overcharged. This excess current is dissipated as heat. Add another 6A of extra current to the voltage regulator, and it will run even hotter, no doubt shortening its life over time.

Excellent point BB. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. The folks selling us the light seemed to have forgotten to mention it.

Good to see you back, BTW.

I started wearing a heated jacket and gloves about 3 years ago. I noticed that my headlights were pulsing when my heated clothing was plugged in and that the heat wasn't at full temp setting when I was at idle. I also saw on the Powerlet website that the S'wing didn't have a lot of extra amps for accessories which led me to believe that this is why these things had been occurring so I started looking into replacing all of my incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs.

I did some research on LED headlights, saw an LED headlight shootout from Headlight Revolution, asked them what would they recommend for the S'wing, and they recommended Supernova V3 LED headlights which sold for $139. The shootout video showed that the light pattern was very similar to halogen bulbs, had a very white light, and was 130% brighter. I ordered the H7 bulbs.

These bulbs have a lot of backside to their design with a narrow portion behind the bulb for the retaining clip. I had to stick just the tip of the bulb into the housing and then finagle the retaining clip in between the back section of the bulb and the back of the bulb before I could locate the bulb properly and fasten the clip for both bulbs. It took a lot cussing because I wasn't able to see what I was doing (and I had to do it all with one hand) and persistence until each bulb was installed. I had to remove the cover in front of the windshield for the low beam, the high beam was accessible without removing anything, I only had to reach in above the fender. I had to temporarily disconnect the drivers so that I could thread the heat sinks and cable through the opening in the dust cover and reinstall it. There is room behind the bulbs for the backsides, the heatsinks, and the drivers. The driver for the high beam was zip tied to a frame member so it didn't hang out of the tupperware. I had to make sure that nothing touched the forks.

The LEDs on these bulbs are a few degrees off of horizontal axis but this doesn't appear to affect the cutoff or light pattern which, like the shootout video, is nearly identical. The white light from them really makes the reflective traffic furniture pop and I don't have any problem seeing where I'm going. I don't have a way to verify if the bulbs are indeed 130% brighter than halogen bulbs but I hope they are bright enough to be noticed by the cagers and maybe even piss them off

A member of my motorcycle club recommended superbrightleds.com. I looked at the site and was able order bulbs that are specific to the S'wing so I ordered the LED bulbs for the tail light and turn signals. Our bikes require four amber turn signal bulbs, a license light, and two white tail lights. You can choose the lumens for each bulb. They are direct plug and play. The turn signals flash a little faster now and I can fix that by buying resistors from the site but I think the faster rate and brighter bulbs will be more noticeable.

The final result is that my headlights don't pulse anymore and my jacket and gloves are always at full temp setting. Being able to see and be seen is also a good safety side effect too.

LEDs are the future of automotive lighting getting better as they progress.

2 AMP VS 5 AMP is a huge difference in draw. That's 30 Watts. more than enough to run a heated vest or jacket liner at a lower setting. Charging system dumps excess voltage to the rectifier at all times. Using more more will just not put it into rectifier.
MAX. charging is rated at 5000 RPM. much lower at idle speeds.

Most heated gear--- GERBING uses a pulse controller that is not a constant draw. Pulse current.

Headlamps will dim with this type of draw. Pulling it from battery. Normal when voltage is low.

Drawing to much will burn out the stator, overheat it.

Headlamps are 55W both on- system can handle this draw, but how long does anybody run both for a long time.  That gives you a little power for heated gear. I'm sure there is a little more charging excess above that.

60 watt saving in LED bulbs both on if needed. HI-low. 60-90 is enough to power a heated liner on high. Toasty warm.

So then if you switch to an LED headlight or LEDs for running , tail and brake lights along with LED headlights do you run the risk of over taxing the rectifier because of that "unused" voltage needing to be dissipated somewhere?

Rectifier is designed to handle maximum output from stator. High-low voltage draws.
Unused voltage is still grounded through it. It is not a weak designed part. Do you know of any failures? Stator maybe?

Most motorcycles use this type of system. Very reliable.

I have given up on an LED headlight for the Swing, too many issues with mounting in the reflector housing, and not enough improvement in illumination.

My goal was to create current overhead to allow for extra rear conspicuity lighting and additional forward visibility for riding in the forest.

As for the reliability, I have 58,000 miles and 15 years on the original regulator....but it's 3rd stator is on the way. This failure, as well as the last one, was due to a battery failure (shorted cell).

After near 100,000 miles with two SilverWings, new 2009/new 2013....and no electric troubles other than dead battery caused by electric tire pump----I say leave everything stock....want LED lights buy new/newer bike with them as stock. To me walking sucks/breakdowns on trips can be expensive. Honda has/had everything figured out and it works pretty good if you leave it alone.

bluboy4 wrote:

I don't have a way to verify if the bulbs are indeed 130% brighter than halogen bulbs but I hope they are bright enough to be noticed by the cagers and maybe even piss them off

To me that paragraph pretty much sums up the selfish attitude of DIY owners fitting aftermarket HID or LED lights. Hoping that your efforts piss off, ruin the night vision and burn the retinas of normal oncoming road users that you dismiss as "cagers".

So in your book it's OK to piss off motorcyclists, car drivers, bus drivers, truck drivers etc. Not to mention Police, ambulance drivers, fire appliance drivers or whatever.

This 130% brighter for your LED bulbs claim also applies to just about any replacement Halogen bulbs on sale for the Silver Wing.

I uprated my OE bulbs in 2016 simply because a long cold starless and Bible black night ride over the Pennines and a road diversion into the back of beyond on the ride back to York convinced me the OE bulbs were no longer up to the job.

It didn't help on that night that I was getting lit up by oncoming road users with the full array of automotive lighting technology.

When I fitted a set of Osram Night Breakers a week or so later, it was simply for more efficient headlights for night riding, not to get noticed by other road users and piss off cagers. Like the OE bulbs, they don't affect the output of my heated jacket either.

I agree with Meldrew, most of my riding is done in the day, as the headlight is on all the time. Now it gets dark  earlier in winter, it is good to know you are visible to other road users. Why anyone wants to antagonise other road users by using brighter than standard lighting I do not understand. I suppose if I lived up a mountain, or heavily wooded forest, brighter lights might be needed but, not in fairly well lit towns and cities. Just as appoint of interest I can buy two H7 bulbs for one pound.

What some people don't realize is there is a difference between conspicuity and full-frontal retinal assault.

Using obnoxiously bright and glaring headlights can have very negative results, besides the obvious risk of blinding other riders and drivers, there is the very real danger of nighttime target fixation of oncoming drivers, and just as that can lead a rider to crashing into someone, that someone could crash into you.

I don't know about outside the U.S. but the NEW BRIGHT lights are a standard on all the new vehicles, I get the light flash at our Subaru now and then but they are already on low beams. I had cataract surgery not to long ago so everything is REALLY bright, night or day. Having never rode my S'Wing at night I can't say how good or bad they are at illuminating the road.

I installed to my Swing (SW-T600) Philips Racing +150% H7 bulbs and front tail lamp Philips Xtreme Vision 360 led w5w. I do not drive in the winter but for the coming summer I want that other wehicles show me in traffic. Also I made custom 3rd brake light for my bike. These bulbs are very bright. Perhaps the brightest and legal bulbs for the road traffic. I recommered these.

If you really want to be seen during daylight take a look at Kisan's website. I installed their headlight modulators in three of my bikes and two in friend's bikes. They are a easy installation on the Silverwing. The function is modulating (not quite flashing) on the high beam bulb when you are using your low beams during the day. At dusk a light sensor will lock the system out so there will only be steady light. Modulators are legal in all US States and all Canadian Provinces. They don't blind anyone but the do get attention.
Back when only bikes ran with headlights on cager drivers noticed them. But with everyone using daytime driving lights now bikes aren't noticed among all the lights out there. People spot motion faster than stationary objects. The idea is that the modulated (varying from 100-80%) gives the impression of a moving object which will be much more likely to be noticed. I've never had anyone complain about modulators, they don't blind anyone being on low beam. They are adjustable so you can set the light level that you want them to shut off in the evening. I would have them on my current scooter but they don't have a plug and play system like they do for the Silver Wing at Kisan. Highly recommended safety equipment! They don't give them away but the units are well made and won't fail.

https://kisantech.com/mag/pfin/p115w-dhl.html

dspevack wrote:

Also I'm not sure what unit of measurement I would be using to judge.
 
 
Dan

Last night I hit the trifecta ... country road riding, at night, during a rainstorm featuring stretches of torrential downpours.  It was rather timely I came across this thread as recently I've been researching what I can do to increase/improve the amount of flood and spot lighting in front of my SWing.  

Specifically, I'm looking at replacing my OEM halogen headlight bulbs with LED light bulbs and/or adding auxiliary lighting.  IMO, the OEM lighting is generally just OK and minimally adequate.  However, riding at night time, country road riding or riding in fog or rain (like I did last night) can quickly turn into a white knuckle, butt puckering experience due to insufficient illumination.  

Dan asks a great question above ... and based on my external research to date, I believe the answer is "LUX".  That's the metric that is most important i.e. how much light reaches the object(s) out in front/to the side, at what distance, and, how much light is reflected back to source. That's lux and I think his diagram is a good illustration of this concept.

The problem is, lighting providers/vendors rarely provide consistent information to be able to make an apple to apple comparison of their lighting products.  Even the product review specialists seem to use and be OK with an apple to orange to banana approach.  Once I finish my research, I'll create a separate thread with my summary findings and final decision.

In the meantime, I'll use my Walmart purchased, "affordable" Optronics auxiliary lights that are really more for other drivers to see me better (read conspicuity) rather than for me to see better (read path illumination).

It might be worth checking the beam alignment first.
Mine was pointed way too low as I discovered on my first night ride, but a quick twiddle of the adjuster and the lighting is great.
Having said that I'm talking about cross country in the hills, so no street lights and pretty much dark skies, and I tend to stay below 60 at night, often as slow as 50.

steve_h80 wrote:

... It might be worth checking the beam alignment first.

Good suggestion. I'll be doing this for sure.

steve_h80 wrote:

... Having said that I'm talking about cross country in the hills, so no street lights and pretty much dark skies, and I tend to stay below 60 at night, often as slow as 50.

That pretty much describes the road I was on the other night perfectly and we too were riding 75-90 kph coming home in the rain. Didn't feel we were going too fast ... just couldn't see as much as I would have liked to. There were cars coming in the opposite direction so true "off-road" lighting" would have to have been turned down/off regardless.

Some of the people I ride with have newer bikes with much better OEM LED lighting systems. Some of them have installed aftermarket lighting like Clearwater, Rigid or Denali and I am super impressed with the amount of light these units throw down.

At last year's Maxi-Scoots Rally, one evening, we were quite late coming back from Lake Placid NY back to Cooperstown. Hwy 10 is a curvy highway (amazing to ride during the day) through the hills and forests. We asked Cathy's husband Bob to lead the way as he had great auxiliary Clearwater lighting installed on his BMW adventure bike. He turned up the lighting wick and boy oh boy was I ever blown away by the difference between stock lighting and his set up.

My priorities for modifications are: 1) safety 2) performance/utility 3) comfort and lastly 4) cosmetics. I rarely if ever get to cosmetics.

After tonight's ride, I'm now thinking of adding some Clearwater Lights, if just for inside corner lighting. In tight corners, the swing headlight leaves quite a dark hole in the direction of the intended wheel track. Though in Honda's defense, I've had a number of European bikes that did not do much better until aftermarket lighting was added.
The Clearwaters' mounting location on the front fender seems like it should remedy this, but if anyone's had experience with these lights and will comment, I'm all ears.

I just spotted the rain bit. Heavy rain can be as bad as snow sometimes, the more light you throw at it the worse it gets.

steve_h80 wrote:

I just spotted the rain bit. Heavy rain can be as bad as snow sometimes, the more light you throw at it the worse it gets.

Partly.  The "cooler" the light (higher CCT -- correlated colour temperature aka Kelvin rating), the worse the glare becomes in fog, rain, snow and dusty conditions.  That's exactly why yellow/warm light output between 2,500-3,000K is generally used for "fog" lights applications etc.  

Those "warmer" temperatures/colours penetrate through the fog etc. much better than whiter/bluer light resulting in less light being reflected back (glare) to the source.  Much easier on the eyes and better to see down the road.

So some LEDs have dual colors. I suppose that it is a feature of applied voltage. Can the Kelvin rating of a headlight be “adjusted” by altering the applied voltage? In other words can an LED headlight be changed to amber by altering the applied voltage?

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

So some LEDs have dual colors. I suppose that it is a feature of applied voltage.  Can the Kelvin rating of a headlight be “adjusted” by altering the applied voltage? In other words can an LED headlight be changed to amber by altering the applied voltage?

In my research, I have seen dual colour (amber, white) LED auxiliary light kits  ... like this one I am considering below from advmonster.com  

advmonster FA57 LED Auxiliary Light Kit


I believe this is achieved because there are two chips in this compact light pod ... one for the "yellow" 2700K warm colour and one for the brighter "white" 5700K cooler colour.  

I'm thinking that most LED chips used in auxilary lighting fixtures are only designed to one specific CCT rating and I've never seen one that provides an adjustable "Kelvin range" ... only adjustable light intensity (lumens projected).  i.e. you can change applied voltage through devices like the Skene Designs IQ275 module, but that just adjusts the intensity of the light emitted ... and does not greatly affect the Kelvin colour (apparently it does affect it a little bit).  

Skene Designs Dimmers

Dimmers are used to tone down the intensity of the LED's emitted light (say from 100% to 30%) around traffic and dial it up when riding on pitch black country roads.  Most use PWM (pulse wave modulation) which from my reading, adjusts the frequency of current sent to the LED chip. The net effect is it dims the light although the naked human eye doesn't see the pulsating dimming and brightening wave action.

I will ask my friend, the 12v elektrickery expert, your question to get his opinion and I'll come back and edit my response.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION Re: Coloured LED LIGHTS

I'm going to keep this fairly short as I'm getting in way over my head.  The short answer is an LED chip can be made up of various "dies" that affect the colour that is emitted by that particular LED chip.  Typically in coloured LED lights, there can be a Green, Red, Blue and White die.  The voltage sent to each die from the controller (the device which controls and commands the LED chip), will dictate the colour emitted.

Another way to look at it is to think of your colour printer.  Most printers have four ink cartridges.  Yellow, Magenta, Cyan and of course a Black cartridge.  The different coloured inks are mixed in different proportions to create the different colours produced on a piece of white paper.  

Coloured LED lights can have Red, Green, Blue and sometimes White dies to create the myriad of colours one sees on those light strips or coloured LED fixtures.  The colour is controlled by the amount of voltage passed through any one of those specific coloured dies whose "beams" are ultimately blended to create the final colour (just like the ink on your printer).  Below is a short article that explains coloured LEDs.

How Coloured LEDs Work

To conclude, as I guessed, you can't produce significant colour (Kelvin) change simply by varying the voltage input to a LED chip.  However, as Tim correctly proffered up,  you can create a variety of colours if the LED chip is comprised of multiple dies that can have varying levels of voltage applied to those individual dies to create a particular colour (again think your home printer here).

BugJr out!

Has anyone installed LED strip lighting and pods? On there, silverwayne, I need some suggestions on where I should place them for the most effective light to be seen.

Ginahardison wrote:

Has anyone installed LED strip lighting and pods? On there, silverwayne, I need some suggestions on where I should place them for the most effective light to be seen.

The search bar will help you find the information you seek, it has been covered many times. Also since you are new to the forum we would appreciate an introduction in that section so we can get to know you!

Thanks.