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 Seat Locking

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hotwings
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PostSubject: Seat Locking   Sat 27 Apr 2013, 10:37

I wish there was a way to open the seat without always using a key. Its a pain when the bike is running/warming up only to hear the wife say "oh i forgot to get my gloves out". I have to shut the bike off to get the key to open the box. Wouldnt it be nice to be able to unlock the box and from then on just push a button or something to open it. No messin or fumblin with a key. Wonder if theres a way to modify the lock or something? I have an extra key i could designate for a seat opener but it would be nice not to have to.
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sat 27 Apr 2013, 12:16

If its not to get something out its to put something in, I understand your pain...
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 02:09

The one way would be a good top box. Then you can keep all the "must have junk" under the seat and keep the stuff you need to get to more often in the top box. With my Coocase all I have to do to unlock it is to push the button on the fob. One simple and cheap possibility would be to get one of those keychains that come apart so you could put two SW keys on the keychain. Then you could leave the bike running and hand the XYL the other key from the chain.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 03:01

I've had a blank (un-chipped) key cut, which I hide on the bike.

Should an "undesirable" find it, the worse they could do is open the seat: it can't start the bike.

On my Burgman, I had a simple, hidden mod which needed no key, but I've yet to find a way of applying it to the S'wing. I need to see how the key and the two locks work together.

If I crack it, I'll report back.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 05:04

Colin,

If you do crack it please do not post what you have done on an open forum. Better to send people a PM once they have asked for it and you have verified they are a bone fide member.

Cheers,
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 06:01

Absolutely!
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 09:58

Colin B wrote:
I've had a blank (un-chipped) key cut, which I hide on the bike.
For those that are confused by this, on the European bikes their is a security system built in by Honda with a chip on a key, similar to most cars today.

The bikes in the USA and wherever you are if you don't have a chip in your key, do not have this feature.

Dan
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 18:39

Dan,

Didn't realise Honda made an 'economy' model for the American market. No chipped key, no 12 power socket in the glovebox. Are the two wheels and seat sold as optional extras? Exclamation Laughing

Cheers,
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Sun 28 Apr 2013, 19:34

tarmacburner2 wrote:
Dan,

Didn't realise Honda made an 'economy' model for the American market. No chipped key, no 12 power socket in the glovebox. Are the two wheels and seat sold as optional extras? Exclamation Laughing

Cheers,

Those are the first farkles we put on!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 12:09

From my standpoint as rider----who would want chipped key?----I like cheap replacement keys---so far Silver Wing/Burgman 400/TU250 Suzuki still ok in US market. In US market----scooter unlikely to get stolen. My TMAX also had cheap key as I recall too
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 12:39

john grinsel wrote:
From my standpoint as rider----who would want chipped key?----I like cheap replacement keys---so far Silver Wing/Burgman 400/TU250 Suzuki still ok in US market. In US market----scooter unlikely to get stolen. My TMAX also had cheap key as I recall too

In some UK and European cities there's a good chance some low life thieving scrote will attempt to steal your scooter if you don't take measures to secure it. If they do it's good to know they'll have a problem trying to start it. Maybe that's why the HISS immobiliser and chipped keys are standard spec on the FJS version we have.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 13:08

Meldrew wrote:
Maybe that's why the HISS immobiliser and chipped keys are standard spec on the FJS version we have.

I think its a cobra plot!


Last edited by dspevack on Tue 30 Apr 2013, 17:15; edited 1 time in total
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toolboxjesse
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 13:38

maybe you could take a length of thin steel safety wire (maybe 12" long, like to type used to hang pictures on the wall) and attach it to the end of the cable at the cam mechanism, then when you need to open you would pull the wire, and hide it behind the side panel when not in use. If you want to get really fancy then crimp on a fishing weight to the end of the cable so you would have something to grip on to.

Jesse in atlanta
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 15:45

toolboxjesse wrote:
maybe you could take a length of thin steel safety wire (maybe 12" long, like to type used to hang pictures on the wall) and attach it to the end of the cable at the cam mechanism, then when you need to open you would pull the wire, and hide it behind the side panel when not in use. If you want to get really fancy then crimp on a fishing weight to the end of the cable so you would have something to grip on to.

Jesse in atlanta
Good idea. I'll check it out to see if its an option.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 15:57

toolboxjesse wrote:
maybe you could take a length of thin steel safety wire
hotwings wrote:
Good idea. I'll check it out to see if its an option.


Then you could put an ad in every newspaper telling everyone how it works!!! Rolling Eyes


tarmacburner2 wrote:
please do not post what you have done on an open forum.

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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 21:17

Colin B wrote:
toolboxjesse wrote:
maybe you could take a length of thin steel safety wire
hotwings wrote:
Good idea. I'll check it out to see if its an option.


Then you could put an ad in every newspaper telling everyone how it works!!! Rolling Eyes


tarmacburner2 wrote:
please do not post what you have done on an open forum.

If the cable thing works out i will obviously have no choice but to store my gold bars and rare art in a safe somewhere other than in the seat of a scooter! Whats someone supposed to steal if they were to ever crack the seat code, maybe my lice infested helmet Laughing or would it be the gloves with the hole in the finger!
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Tue 30 Apr 2013, 21:45

I'd rather not have chipped keys that cost $250 to replace, especially for a $9K (brand new price) scooter.

Maybe scooters are stolen more often on the other side of the pond, but in most parts of the USA I think that we have one (questionable) advantage: Scooters aren't considered "cool" in the mainstream and therefore aren't in as high demand by thieving chavs.

Regarding the public posting of workarounds like this: I am not sure how much internet research would-be scooter seat compartment thieves do on the internet, vs. perpetrating crimes of opportunity, like if they saw the wire hanging out. A mod that some people might or might not do to their bike is one thing, compared with a vulnerability that is built into every vehicle, like the CH751 key for external compartments on RVs.

But maybe I'm just overly optimistic. I guess I wouldn't post that I had done something like that. But I might post if I had set up some scenario where I could lock the thing when I wanted to, and separately, have it unlocked with a custom release latch.

but I think the best solution is the separating keychain with the seat and top box keys on the part that can be separated. I think I'll do that tonight.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 02:02

Scoundrel wrote:
I'd rather not have chipped keys that cost $250 to replace, especially for a $9K (brand new price) scooter

I doubt if getting a replacement key for a HISS equipped FJS Silver Wing costs anywhere near that amount from a UK Honda dealer, you're making that assumption from sifting through old forum posts here or elsewhere.

You of course would rather spend your $250 on a Dr Pulley HiT Clutch and 26gr sliders, and trying to turn your 02 model into that more efficient $9K scooter. Neutral








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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 02:09

To those who find my "newspaper ad" comment a little dramatic, let me say that I also know a way of opening a Givi top box without a key. It is VERY easy!

Would you like me to describe it here? I doubt it.

If security is AT ALL important to you, please refrain from discussing modus operandii in public (however small you think the audience may be).
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 02:20

Meldrew wrote:
Scoundrel wrote:
I'd rather not have chipped keys that cost $250 to replace, especially for a $9K (brand new price) scooter

I doubt if getting a replacement key for a HISS equipped FJS Silver Wing costs anywhere near that amount from a UK Honda dealer, you're making that assumption from sifting through old forum posts here or elsewhere.

I'm basing that on what I was told it can cost to get such a key replaced for a car. Maybe it would be different for a scooter. I hope we never find out.

Meldrew wrote:

You of course would rather spend your $250 on a Dr Pulley HiT Clutch and 26gr sliders, and trying to turn your 02 model into that more efficient $9K scooter. Neutral

Is this sarcasm? Your "smiley" is ambiguous.

Why do you seem to be dissing me for not wanting to spend $250 on a lost key, but being willing to spend a few hundred on a nice clutch setup that will improve the performance of my scooter every day?

Maybe you should back off with the scorn there, dude.

Unless, of course, I completely misread your tone. In that case, disregard the above.
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 03:18

Colin B wrote:
To those who find my "newspaper ad" comment a little dramatic, let me say that I also know a way of opening a Givi top box without a key. It is VERY easy!

Would you like me to describe it here? I doubt it.

You mean besides smacking it with a baseball bat?

Colin B wrote:

If security is AT ALL important to you, please refrain from discussing modus operandii in public (however small you think the audience may be).

The opposing viewpoint is that if the public is informed, they can take steps to protect themselves.

For example, I learned on an RV internet forum that the external compartments in nearly all motorhomes, fifth wheels, travel trailers, etc. use the same lock, which can be opened with the same key, stamped "CH751". As a result, I was able to purchase and install a set of "set your own combination" barrel locks, and throw away all of my CH751 locks.

Of course, someone can still easily pop those doors open with a screwdriver, but that's beside the point.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 03:34

If Scoundrel isn't fantasising about his 'nice clutch', I'd just like to say there's nothing wrong with a bit of scorn and sarcasm .... dude. You don't ride a FJS Silver Wing equipped with an immobiliser, and it doesn't have a car type ignition key with buttons and a battery, not that you'd know that of course.

Maybe you should back off asking weird stuff like how long a new Silver Wing keeps it's "brand new smell”. Neutral ( I'm trying to stop laughing at that!)


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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 03:40

Use of a baseball (or cricket) bat would draw attention. My method is far more discreet and doesn't destroy the box.

All you have to do is .............


Oh dear, what a pity, my broadband connection has died. Wink


Last edited by Colin B on Wed 01 May 2013, 03:42; edited 1 time in total
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 03:40

We were talking about a hypothetical chipped key, and I was saying I wouldn't want one. I didn't say I thought any SilverWings had one.

The only thing wrong with trying to insert a little humor into the question about how well a SilverWing generally holds up before it starts getting a little rough around the edges is the audience I asked it of, apparently.

There IS something wrong with a little bit of scorn and sarcasm. I don't like it being directed at me, and I've asked you to stop. Take those things, and your condescending attitude, and stuff them.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 03:53

hotwings wrote:
Whats someone supposed to steal if they were to ever crack the seat code, maybe my lice infested helmet Laughing or would it be the gloves with the hole in the finger!

A curious comment, as you were the one to raise the question in the first place!

If you keep nothing of value under the seat, then you have no need for it to lock.

Why not disable the lock by removing the two square loop thingies from the underside of the seat? Problem solved!

cheers
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 04:15

Scoundrel wrote:
We were talking about a hypothetical chipped key, and I was saying I wouldn't want one. I didn't say I thought any SilverWings had one.

The only thing wrong with trying to insert a little humor into the question about how well a SilverWing generally holds up before it starts getting a little rough around the edges is the audience I asked it of, apparently.

There IS something wrong with a little bit of scorn and sarcasm. I don't like it being directed at me, and I've asked you to stop. Take those things, and your condescending attitude, and stuff them.

The thing is...dude, I'm not part of the audience, I'm part of the forum you joined to pick the brains of.

Have a nice day or whatever. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 04:44

Moderator's hat on:

1096 beats 44 and 2 years 5 months beats 3 weeks; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Either that or sit back and watch for a little while and see what's behind the posts before taking umbrage at responses to the tone of posts you've made.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 05:42

Scoundrel wrote:

I'd rather not have chipped keys that cost $250 to replace, especially for a $9K (brand new price) scooter.

Maybe scooters are stolen more often on the other side of the pond, but in most parts of the USA I think that we have one (questionable) advantage: Scooters aren't considered "cool" in the mainstream and therefore aren't in as high demand by thieving chav
s.


I can confirm that a chipped key does not cost $250 to replace, ask me how I know.

You have to remember that this forum is international, so regardless of the domestic situation pertinent to your own country you have to consider the wider implications.

MikeO
Perhaps this thread (or parts of it) should be removed, just a thought.

Cheers,
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 06:38

Sweet jeezus i've created a hostile post. Lets all sing in unison now

"WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS, WHY CANT WE BE FRIENDS......." I love you
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 06:45

Hotwings,

You can't always blame the creator, in many cases it is the users who are at fault. e.g Robert Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb.

(Bet that is the first time you have been compared to RO!)

Cheers,

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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 12:25

Meldrew wrote:
In some UK and European cities there's a good chance some low life thieving scrote will attempt to steal your scooter if you don't take measures to secure it. If they do it's good to know they'll have a problem trying to start it. Maybe that's why the HISS immobiliser and chipped keys are standard spec on the FJS version we have.

Not just Europe, we get those bastiges in American cities too. Wish we had the HISS system here for the bikes. Hell, Ford went to chipped keys here. Not stupid enough to leave a non chipped key on my truck, first thing those a-holes would steal would be the tailgate. $700 for a new one and it's the most stolen part.
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Gyro
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 12:47

I just wish there was a way to remember to take the key out of the seat lock after stashing the helmets, but that's not any fault of the S'Wing.... Embarassed

Maybe I should get one of those retractable cable thingies you wear on your belt and attach my S'wing key to that! tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 13:06

If someone really wants to go overboard, their are biometric locks with key overrides. They are available for doors and ignitions.

If its that important to you just do the research and pay a lot of money for the hardware and installation.

Dan
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 18:58

I have ignition key and topbox key on the same ring and have trained myself NOT to let go of the keys when I open the seat but to take it out straight away and put it back in the ignition or reconnect it to my lanyard.
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 19:07

Just leaving the key in the seat lock works for me. Backup key in hidey-hole if worst comes to the worst.

Cheers,
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 20:37

Gyro wrote:

Maybe I should get one of those retractable cable thingies you wear on your belt and attach my S'wing key to that! tongue

They carry them at Ace Hardware! I bought one for my wife last year and she loves it!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 21:13

I thank the baby jebus that Colin won't tell everyone his super secret method of how to get into a Givi top box without a key, and that thieves are too stupid to type into google "how to open a givi top box without a key."

Brilliance abounds.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Wed 01 May 2013, 23:46

Hide a key under foot.In your wallet . Under bat wing,(floor board) magnetic box,tape to the frame ,tape under but rest.Or better yet disconnect cable from key lock,and fish the cable to where it can be open from outside.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 01:33

DuggleBogey wrote:
I thank the baby jebus that Colin won't tell everyone his super secret method of how to get into a Givi top box without a key, and that thieves are too stupid to type into google "how to open a givi top box without a key."

Brilliance abounds.



It may not be "Super Secret", but a least my conscience is clear. I don't want to make it easy for someone to gain access.

Reading some of the posts here, one might just as well leave the key in the slot and stick a sign on it.

For me, Integrity abounds.





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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 04:16

Colin B wrote:
DuggleBogey wrote:
I thank the baby jebus that Colin won't tell everyone his super secret method of how to get into a Givi top box without a key, and that thieves are too stupid to type into google "how to open a givi top box without a key."

Brilliance abounds.



It may not be "Super Secret", but a least my conscience is clear. I don't want to make it easy for someone to gain access.

Reading some of the posts here, one might just as well leave the key in the slot and stick a sign on it.

For me, Integrity abounds.


Considering the the US has a prison population of 2,2 million you would think some people would be more safety conscious.

Regardless of value, if your helmet gets stolen and you are away from home, miles from a motorcycle shop you are goosed!

Cheers,
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 06:12

My keys stay in the ignition ,my helmet, gloves ,jacket , CD player, on the seat when I go to Tim's for coffee,and in 40 years the only thing that happen was the wind blowing me glove on the ground and a passer by put back on the seat .Keys stay in my car all day long in my drive way .Living in the Canadian North ,If you fart to loud someone will let you know.
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hotwings
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 06:33

I think in north america if a thief would steal a scooter it would be like stealing a kitten from a little girl. His thieving buddies would shame the guy into returning it!
What i dont understand is why some guys here are trying to make a fuss over one guy doing a mod i.e. if i were to remove my seat lock and put a led pushbutton opener with a neon sign that says open here, whats that got to do with someones scooter with the oem lock parked next to it!?!?!? Just because i do the mod doesnt mean honda international is going to contact me and recall all scooters and place my mod on it. Yeaaaaah Razz
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 07:03

Hotwings,

Altering the seat lock isn't the problem. Finding a way to install a 'secret' opener for the seat and then broadcasting it on a public forum is. Perhaps the scooter won't get stolen but some people carry all sorts of things under the seat. If a helmet is stored there and it gets stolen that may stop the rider from legally riding the scooter. Sometimes I carry a laptop or other computers, whilst I know the actual item can be replaced, if there are files such as downloaded pictures from my camera are on it then they are gone forever. People carry camping equipment, would you like to spend a night 'under the stars' if your tent, sleeping bag and stove had been pinched?
Cheers,
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Gyro
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 07:11

I wonder how many motor scooter thieves read this forum looking for tips and leads?

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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 07:14

Having had a brand new bike stolen, perhaps I'm a little more concerned about security than some. That does NOT mean I am making a fuss!

As you say, if you want to make your bike easy to enter, then go ahead. I intend to do the same. The difference is, I prefer not to broadcast the method.

Subtlety abounds!
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 09:01

Gyro wrote:
I wonder how many motor scooter thieves read this forum looking for tips and leads?


If they know how to use Google, they will find us!

Discretion is the watchword.

Cheers,
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Gyro
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 09:23

I could not find any statistics on motor scooter theft in the US, but I did find this: Motorcycle Theft Statistics

It's mostly about sport bikes, but the comments about what deters thieves should apply equally to scooters.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 09:39

Swing scooters fly under the radar on north america big cruisers rider ignore us kids looking for a joy ride look for cooler things to steal .hotwing do your modes and don't wary by happy. motorcycle
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 09:59

I locked my keys in my car once and had to call an auto club to come unlock it for me. The guy unlocked the car without even stopping. He pulled up, walked towards my car, stuck a slim jim in the corner of the door and pulled it open as he walked by, got back in his truck and drove away. It took him less time to unlock and gain access to my car than it did for me to do it with the key.

I realized at that point the only person being kept out of my car who wanted access was me. Locks just keep honest people honest. They aren't there to stop real criminals.
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Gyro
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PostSubject: Re: Seat Locking   Thu 02 May 2013, 10:11

I can imagine a locksmith walking up to my trike, slim-jim in hand and walking around it looking for a door or window to unlock.....

Wink tongue
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