Changing bulbs

Just bought a 2008 Silver Wing. Wife followed me home in the car and advised that my brake lights are really dim. I can't fing any directions to access or change the headlight or brake light bulbs in the manual. Is it necessary to buy a service manual just to change the bulbs?
Surely this can't be that diffiucult.
Picure work a thousand words or just tell me how its done.
Any help would be appreciated.

Open the seat , inside the trunk there are 2 removable panels to access to the bulbs.Turn the bulb socket counterclockwise to remove the bulb.

Hello AV-40,

From AL, huh? You may have unknowingly broken an unwritten forum rule - you should introduce yourself. ;-)

Changing the brake light bulbs is not too difficult. The year of your bike will not matter, but be sure to tell us what year your bike is.

[1] Open the seat.
[2] Look to the very rear of the underseat compartment. You will see two maintenance access panels - one for each side.
[3] Open each panel to access each light.
[4] Turn the socket counter clockwise to remove bulb and socket.
[5] Twist bulb counter clockwise to remove bulb.
[6] Reverse process to install. (You know how)

You can send me a private message to get my phone number and I'll call you.

Really helps if you have small hands as access is not the best.

As you know the scooter has two brake lights so it is something more than the bulbs that is causing the dim output. For both bulbs to be poor is too much of a coincidence. Had one been normal intensity and the other dim then yes you are looking at a bulb problem. You need to look at the switches for a common denominator, (small micro-switches located underneath the brake levers).
See this

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/89523430/silverwingbrakes.jpg

Cheers,

Yes... introductions show you have some class... plus, it's just the "friendly" thing to do anywhere...

Anyway, welcome to the site. Plus, go here for an instructional pic:

https://www.silverwing600.com/t1605-all-rear-lamp-bulb-replacement-instructions?highlight=brake+bulb+change

And pay attention to 'tarmacburner2's comments.

Thank so much for the prompt replys guys. I do appreciate it. Am new here so didn't know about the introduction thing.
I'm a retired MD Trooper and Helo Pilot. Upgrading my scooter arsenal from a Piaggio BV200 to this 2008 Silver Wing.
I think I can get into the rear light with the info y'all have already sent. But I'm going to need to know how to access the front turn signals as well.
It appears that the previous owner has installed the LED type bulbs in both the front and rear turn signals. They work well from the rear, as they face rearwards. However, the front turn signal bulbs are facing upwards and do not use the entire surface of the front reflector.
I can't see the type of bulbs in the stop light lens area, but I assume they also have been replaced with the LED's.

Can anyone advise the stock bulb numbers for the turn signals as well as the stop light?
By number I mean 1157NA, as an example.

Addendum on the intro thing.
My handle here, AV-40, was the tag number on my cruiser.
As far as the Silver Wing goes. I found it on Craigs List in Panama City, had 1900 miles on it. Owner had installed LEDs under the fenders and frame, had him remove them as part of the sale. Waaay too liberal, hippy & young looking for this old conservative type.

Personally speaking (and I'm no electrician), but it sounds like the previous owner has messed around with the wiring installing unnecessary addenda, and this reduced output is the result. It might be worth inspecting the bulbs to ensure they are the correct output wattage, and whilst there, using a multimeter to check what voltage they are receiving.

HTH,

Paul

If the previous owner had swapped everything for LED then there shouldn't be a problem with overloading the circuit. On my Silverwing the rear / brake lights are LEDs, there are eight additional LEDs for rear lights and eight for brake lights. I also have four additional LEDs on each indicator at the rear. Scoot lights up like a Christmas tree and I'm still using less wattage than if the standard lamps were the only things being used.
Here is a picture with the side lights and indicators on. When brake applied the other red LEDs come on.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/89523430/2012-04-09%2012.59.40.jpg

Cheers,

The brake light could be dim because the leds used could be emitting red light. What is the taillamp light like?

Kurt,
I didn't think of the possibility of a red LED behind a red lens. That could be the problem causing the dimness. Will look and find out today as soon as the WX warms up a bit. Its freezing here in LA,(lower Alabama) and its almost April.

LED manufacturers recommend using red LEDs behind red lenses, orange ones behind amber lenses, white behind white and so on. I don't know if this is just 'marketing hype' as coloured LEDs are invariably more expensive than white ones or if it has something to do with the narrow wavelength of light given off by an LED. The LEDs I have in the tail lights are just as bright (if not brighter) than the original lamps they replaced. Given that LEDs need a lot less power to operate then the problem doesn't lie with the lamp IMHO.
The tail / brake light on the Silverwing is the capless variety it would be very easy to just change one of the lamps back to the original type and see if this makes any difference.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/89523430/swingcapless.JPG
(Lamp not wasted as it is always good to have a spare).

Cheers,

Took the tail light bulb out. It has been replaced with a tower type LED.
Dozens of leds on the sides but only 4 showing to the rear. Apparently the wrong design LED for the tail/stop light.

Going to reinstall the original type incandescent #7443 bulb and see if that makes an improvement in illumination.

No current LED can replace a standard taillight bulb and remain DOT compliant. The pattern is different. See webbikeworld for more info. No LED replacement bulb works as brightly as a standard bulb. You have to design the whole taillight assembly differently to use LEDs (it can be done, but not by just swapping the bulb).

Also, the worst thing you can do for the regulator on this bike is to lower the base electrical load. Changing to LEDs will not lower the power the stator generates, but will increase the amount of energy that has to be turned into heat to regulate the system (by the regulator). Honda designed the regulator assuming a certain base load, so lowering that load can cause the regulator to work harder and even potentially operate out of spec. Heat destroys these things.

So I would not replace my taillights with LEDs until (1) they draw at least the same amount of power as the standard bulb and (2) they illuminate as effectively as the standard bulb.

OK, Got the tail/brake lights back to full bright with the elimination of the LED's and replacing them w/ stock 7443's.
All I need now is to find out the correct bulb number for the turn signals. Anybody know?

jmaslak wrote:

No current LED can replace a standard taillight bulb and remain DOT compliant. The pattern is different. See webbikeworld for more info. No LED replacement bulb works as brightly as a standard bulb. You have to design the whole taillight assembly differently to use LEDs (it can be done, but not by just swapping the bulb).

Also, the worst thing you can do for the regulator on this bike is to lower the base electrical load. Changing to LEDs will not lower the power the stator generates, but will increase the amount of energy that has to be turned into heat to regulate the system (by the regulator). Honda designed the regulator assuming a certain base load, so lowering that load can cause the regulator to work harder and even potentially operate out of spec. Heat destroys these things.

So I would not replace my taillights with LEDs until (1) they draw at least the same amount of power as the standard bulb and (2) they illuminate as effectively as the standard bulb.

Have to differ with you there. I have LEDs in the tail lights of my truck and Shadow and they re just as bright on the bike and even brighter on the truck. The side-firing pattern fills out the reflector so the whole lens lights up. LEDs that draw the same wattage as a standard bulb would be too intense to use for vehicle applications, you'd blind someone with your brakelights. The problems with dim LEDs are with the cheap crappy ones.

AV-40 wrote:

All I need now is to find out the correct bulb number for the turn signals. Anybody know?

12v-22w. Why don't you Google and download a Silver Wing Owners Manual for this info if you didn't get one off the previous owner.

Nice easy fix and cheap too.

The indicator lamps are standard amber coloured ones. Any car parts, Walmart store should carry them. Some lamps have offset pins which aren't the ones you want.


(21 watt not 22 watt Meldrew - perhaps you should wear your glasses whilst reading the manual!)

Cheers,

I Googled, downloaded, and flicked through the manual to get the info for AV-40 just as easily as he could have done himself, and simply made an error typing it on here.

It does make me wonder reading through current posts why our American friends don't seem to check for, or insist on getting the Owners Manual and Service Manual when buying a used Silver Wing.

Hello Meldrew,
How is sunny York?

I find the trouble with some manuals is that the layout is 'all to cock'. For example Technical Information should contain all the technical information, for example, I've had car manuals where the tyre pressures are in a totally different section dealing with changing a wheel rather than in the logical spot.
Mind you I think we are all guilty of referring to the manual only when we haven't been able to figure it out by trial and error.

Ask yourself this, do you know all the operational procedures for your Smart car?

Cheers,

removing extra post

Thanks for all the posts guys.
Got the owners manual from eBay as the previous owner did not have one.
Owners manual does not specify any bulb types or numbers. Service manual may specify but don't have one of those yet.
In my quest to determine the turn signal bulb type and how to change it, I discovered the right turn signal housing can be accessed by removing the right side fairing box. I can actually see the bulb socket protruding from the underside of the right side turn signal housing. However the socket is so tight it precludes turning in either direction. And now I am assuming that the socket in that housing works the same as the tail light housing, where you turn 1/4 counter clockwise to remove. Tried both ways, no joy.
As far as the left turn signal access, I'm lost.

Now, @ Meldrew, I don't appreciate the sarcasm directed at me or any American on this board. If you can be a gentleman and offer assistance as such without the sarcasm, you are welcome. Otherwise keep your comments in Europe. I may be new to this forum, but I can recognize and handle off-hand comments, and their source with the hard earned experience of a 20 year Trooper.

tarmacburner2 wrote:

Hello Meldrew,
How is sunny York?
Ask yourself this, do you know all the operational procedures for your Smart car?

It's got bugger all to do the current topic but I'm not new to driving a Smart, I had 5 years experience of Smart driving and another 5 years driving a Mitsubishi Colt with the same type of transmission before I bought the Smart I have now. I did have to get used to the 'mhd' micro hybrid drive, basically after a mile or so the engine cuts out when I brake to stop and restarts when I lift my foot off the brake, and I've now got the option of using paddle gear shifts on the steering wheel.

I took delivery on Christmas Eve, re-read the Owners Manual, poked about areas I was curious about and have since put 3000 miles on it mainly going back and forwards between homes in York and Cumbria.

The only thing that's flummoxed me is the high end Pioneer sat nav/phone/cd/DVD/radio that seemed to have a mind of it's own, and I didn't know much about it's operational procedures because I got very little bumph to read up on it. Last week my local Smart dealer sorted it out for me while I drank their very nice coffee The only operational procedure I'm unfamiliar with now is shutting up the irritating woman's voice on the sat nav, it's driving me mad.

If I can't, I'll join a Smart forum and ask!

AV-40 - What is a Trooper? Over here it is a cavalry horse.

Cheers,

State level law enforcement officer. That's the short answer.

Saw a-service manual on ebay to day .Have a look It might still be there.My winter down time give's me time to read them from cover to cover .

Thanks tinman, will look now.

tarmacburner2 wrote:

AV-40 - What is a Trooper? Over here it is a cavalry horse.

Cheers,

Over here Trooper (Tpr) is the equivalent rank for Private (Pte) in the Household Cavalry, Royal Armoured Corps, Special Air Service, and the Honourable Artillery Company.

AV-40 wrote:

State level law enforcement officer. That's the short answer.

Hate to see what the long answer is then!

Why use one word when you can use five - copper.

A few more posts from Meldrew and myself and you'll start getting used to the 'English sense of humour'. Then Kurt from Oz will get his spade out and make a few digs. AV-40, you have to remember this is banter. Lifeis too short to be taken seriously and no-one gets out alive.

Cheers

Sorry mate, I haven't got a sense of humour English or otherwise, I'm just a grumpy old git!

No harm, No foul. In the words of one famous, now deceased fellow from California named Rodney King, " Can't we all just get along"
Hope we can help each other out here.

I don't know how things work in the UK (even tho I am half English) but for some strange reason here in the States, it appears to be illegal to keep the Owners Manual WITH a vehicle. Therefore when a vehicle (car, truck, motorcycle or boat) is sold the documentation is not available... Over the years when purchasing used I invariably have to look elsewhere for the books as previous owner has lost the same.

When I sell a vehicle I make sure all things are available to include, AND owners manuals are kept IN the vehicle!!! That said, here in the US eBay is your friend... LOL

GHM-PM wrote:

I don't know how things work in the UK (even tho I am half English) but for some strange reason here in the States, it appears to be illegal to keep the Owners Manual WITH a vehicle. Therefore when a vehicle (car, truck, motorcycle or boat) is sold the documentation is not available... Over the years when purchasing used I invariably have to look elsewhere for the books as previous owner has lost the same.

When I sell a vehicle I make sure all things are available to include, AND owners manuals are kept IN the vehicle!!! That said, here in the US eBay is your friend... LOL

Obviously the half with the brain in it isn't the English half!
Does seem a bit of a bizarre law, is it a county law, a state law or a federal law? Perhaps our tame State Trooper (AV-40) may want to comment on it.
Perhaps the FBI see them as containing seditious content as many of them will refer to the metric system.

Cheers

Meldrew wrote:

Sorry mate, I haven't got a sense of humour English or otherwise, I'm just a grumpy old git!

Another four years and you'll get the birthday telegram from the Queen, that'll piss you off even more

Cheers,

tarmacburner2 wrote:

Meldrew wrote:

Sorry mate, I haven't got a sense of humour English or otherwise, I'm just a grumpy old git!

Another four years and you'll get the birthday telegram from the Queen, that'll piss you off even more

Cheers,

I already pissed the Palace off when I refused the Knighthood, so they gave it to another old scrote that's on Saturday night telly instead.

He's, (GHM-PM) is just kidding of course. No such law here in the US. Sadly however, it does appear us Americans forget to replace things we have moved from their original location. Call it irresponsibility, I sure do, or perhaps its just that most folks don't give a s--t. Or more realistically, don't show common sense in realizing where things need to be kept. For example, fire extinguishers need to be kept where there is likelyhood a fire will occur. Owners manuals don't do you any good when you neeed to find out something about your vehicle if you left it beside your chair in the den.
I have a favorite saying after having dealt with the public for so many years.
"How did they find their way to town"

MODERATOR'S HAT ON:

AV-40, when your post-count reaches 1009 you'll have been round here long enough to know the broad range of personalities and senses of humour (mostly fairly off-the-wall) and know what's what.

Until then it's probably best to go with the flow and not take anything personally even if you feel it is.

AV-40 wrote:

"How did they find their way to town"

Happenstance?

Just because they arrived doesn't mean they intended to!

"A good job breathing is automatic!",

'We call him "25 watt" 'cos he is a bit dim',

but my all time favourite is 'You're a waste of good air'.

Good thing is that these pass boundaries and frontiers without losing anything.

Cheers y'all,

AV-40 wrote:

He's, (GHM-PM) is just kidding of course. No such law here in the US.

Yes just my sarcasm coming out. There is NO law but "appears" to be... LOL

jmaslak wrote:

Also, the worst thing you can do for the regulator on this bike is to lower the base electrical load. Changing to LEDs will not lower the power the stator generates, but will increase the amount of energy that has to be turned into heat to regulate the system (by the regulator). Honda designed the regulator assuming a certain base load, so lowering that load can cause the regulator to work harder and even potentially operate out of spec. Heat destroys these things.

So I would not replace my taillights with LEDs until (1) they draw at least the same amount of power as the standard bulb and (2) they illuminate as effectively as the standard bulb.

The power wattage NOT consumed by installing LED running lights is insignificant compared to running a Swing with the high beam on continuously. As the electrical system is designed for operating with high beams and not discharging the battery, the last thing I would worry about is a few extra watts shunted to ground by using LED's. If your concern is valid, blown regulators would be much more common on Swings running only low beams as compared to owners who run high beams continuously.

GHM-PM wrote:

AV-40 wrote:

He's, (GHM-PM) is just kidding of course. No such law here in the US.

Yes just my sarcasm coming out. There is NO law but "appears" to be... LOL

Given what I have read / heard about the States are you sure there isn't such a law?

Cheers,

My reputation seems to preceed me.
Welcome to the nuthouse AV-40.
I hope you have a good run with the Honda Silverwing 600.
Please, if you have any queries, ask and you will recieve a logical and precise answer. We the members endeavour to show genuine goodwill to all, no matter what their previous or current lifestyle may be.

Those cheeky and sour devils from the UK mean no harm and it's just the way they are when in the company of real, intelligent, and friendly people.

Again welcome to this great club.

Oh my gosh. You just said what I have thought along, since joining this great bunch of scooter riders.
It is true that there are certain people that always seam to be a little to cranky in this great forum, and make people fell a little of speaking or asking questions.
Don't be afraid the force is with you. "ask and you will receive" the answer to your question in a proper way by some one that understands.

As a bit of historical information, the British sense of humour was developed as an alternative to watching the rain. We can only differentiate between the four seasons (Spring, Summer, AUTUMN, Winter) by measuring the temperature of the rain falling and at what angle it is actually trying to land. So, we suffer the elements the rest of the world in turn has to suffer us.
If JohnD is referring to Meldrew as 'a little cranky' then I think M would be very insulted. M is in his own words 'a grumpy old git' which equates to 'very cranky'. Mind you I would be if I was 96 and having to read the twaddle some of the more so called 'intelligent and friendly people' type on here. At least he has got his bus-pass!
Nice a nice day y'all...bollocks, its pissing down again.

Cheers,

Meldrew grew up watching Sesame Street and like myself he has modelled himself on Oscar the Grouch, he just let's it show a bit more than some of us oldies!!

When Meldrew was growing up he was listening to steam radio!

Cheers,

I'm with Meldrew. What's wrong with being a grumpy old git? Considering what my daughter bought for me last Christmas, I think I'm well qualified!!
http://www.play.com/Gadgets/Gadgets/4-/24172453/740459252/Grumpy-Old-Git-Caution-Cone/ListingDetails.html?_%24ja=tsid:13315%7Ccat:24172453%7Cprd:24172453&ef_id=MqhQDUnPJg4AAAP7:20130328115352:s

Sesame Street? More likely Rag, Tag and Bobtail, Andy Pandy and Muffin the Mule!