Clicking Noise from Front Brake

Just road tested my SW (non ABS) after fitting refurbed caliper, new pads and discs.

I am getting a 'clicking' or 'ticking' noise when the front brake operates. It varies in frequency and volume depending on speed. It's rather like one end of a lollipop stick being put against a rotating 'spoked' wheel. Everything feels fine under braking but this noise is weird.

I should mention one thing. When I fitted the new pads I reused the metal clip-on shims but I also fitted the purpose made plastic shim (which came with the new pad kit), underneath the metal shim on the pad side of the caliper. My thinking in fitting this plastic shim is that, as the pads wear over time, the pistons will be less exposed by 1mm as they move outwards from the bore. I doubt if this is the problem but thought I'd mention it.

My first thought was the new pads 'bedding-in' on a new disc and the new pad surface is slightly catching one of the holes in the disc.?? Dunno...!

Anyhow, there it is. Has anybody experienced this noise and resolved it?

Try removing one of the shims, not sure why you would need 2.

Yeah, I do wonder why the plastic shim is included in the kit but I couldn't see any harm in fitting it. I'll check it out tomorrow but I just wondered if anybody else had experienced this and what's causing it.

Having since done a google search, it appears that other makes of bikes have exhibited this problem, even when buying from new!

I'm more curious than worried. I just don't like hearing sounds I can't explain. I'm hoping it turns out to be one of those unexplained mysteries which result in people saying, 'just ignore it, it will go away'....and it does

When you do check it out look to see if any pad has a wear spot.

Well, I've had a look and the only odd thing is that the 'new' disc is oscillating up and down, when viewed through the caliper, by about 1mm. This means the disc is not sitting truly on the wheel.

When I was fitting the disc I noticed that there was some tiny lateral movement of the disc against its seating 'bits' around the wheel, (bear in mind that the wheel was sitting flat on the workbench so the tiny disc movement was lateral). I assumed that the disc bolts would true it up once tightened. I bought the wheel from new about 4 years ago.

I'm happy to remove the wheel and the disc to re-seat everything but I can't think of a way to make sure that it is sitting precisely to the centre and the radius of the wheel.

Never had to change a disk so I ask is there an inside and outside that would make a difference or is it a one way only fit? Something must be touching no matter how lightly it should leave a wear mark.

The disc will only fit one way round. I think the high spot of the oscillation is touching the pad spring plate inside the caliper. I'm going to have another look now and see if I can 'centralize' the disc somehow.

Maybe take the rotor off, shift it clockwise by one bolt space then reinstall.

Well Tim, by coincidence, that's what I did and it reduced the oscillation to virtually nil. However, on road test the noise was still there. Then I found the rubber grommet which covers the pad retaining pin hole lying on the garage floor so I checked the pad retaining pin and it was loose...ah ha. After a low speed ride around the street the noise has gone. I'll do a proper road test tomorrow.

There must be a moral to this story, along with some kind of weird forces at work. During the short road test, I had two occasions when the rear brake lever offered no resistance to braking and then carried on working normally. Could there possibly be some connection between these two anomalies?

So the moral of the story is tighten things correctly!

Glad all sorted.

Once the click is gone ask no further questions, the oppsie god smiled on you. On the other hand at time those grommets will push through when installing a panel.

Did I mention that I am a member of the "Ministry for Stating the Bleedin' Obvious"?

Quickly changing the subject, is there a topic somewhere covering the brake fluid distribution valve?

The history with my rear brake lever is leading me to think that the delay valve could be to blame.

Do they go wrong?

It's back. Took the bike out for a 40+ mile run today and the noise was back as I left home and while riding through town. Got out into the country and just kinda forgot about. As I slowed down to pull into our street I noticed it was gone.

I'm gonna put it down to new discs and pads getting to know each other. I'll keep listening though.....

Just as a epilogue, I went out for a ride today and the clicking noise didn't even enter my head as I merrily road around.

As I was putting the bike to bed it occurred to me that I hadn't heard the noise at all during my ride.

So..there we are, another mystery solved with no scientific evidence involved.

Further to the above I have made some interesting discoveries over the last week.

The clicking noise finally got the better of me so I decided to 'go in'. We are dealing with a new EBC front disc and new EBC pads.

The noise started to make itself known, even without using the brakes, so I checked the caliper and it is in perfect working order. There is nothing loose and everything is working as it should so I put in my old pads, which had plenty of miles of them, but had obviously found a 'bed' with the old disc. nevertheless, there was no noise at all when using these old pads. Here are my new EBC pads after about 200 miles from new.:




I don't confess to know about the science behind this topic but they look rough to me. Here are my old Nissin pads after maybe three or four thousand miles:




I am really struggling to find out what's going on here. I have a few theories;

1. The new pads, which are bedded in to the new discs, are catching one or more of the holes in the disc, perhaps from an imperfection in the disc.

2. The old pads, which are NOT bedded into the disc, are not catching the imperfections in the disc. If I let them bed in will they start the noise again?

3. This is just a phenomenon with this combination of discs and pads and if so, WHY?.

Whatever the answer, clicking noises are not normal, unless you hear me getting up from the sofa!

There has to be a reason for this annoying irritation.

Discuss........

Lollipop between the spokes?

Loved that as a kid.....

Sorry meant lollipop stick.........

Never mind the lollipop stick, what about my mental health? This is serious

No solution but an observation. Those new EBC pads look to be of the sintered metal persuasion. Perhaps that suggests a reason.

FWIW After hearing a weak grinding noise even from new and noticeable rotor wear using EBC pads I switched back to Honda Pads. Never had a problem with the original or replacement Honda pads.

I suspect the Honda dealers stock EBC pads because there is a greater profit margin in the EBC pads. And, as a bonus, they get to sell you a new rotor too next time. YMMV

These discs and pads were not from Honda.....Uh..Oh!

I thought I was careful NOT to order sintered pads, maybe I got it wrong. Anyhow, I'm going to order some Honda pads and check the results and if the noise persists, I'll order a Honda Disc (rotor) also.

(The rear brake, which is also an EBC disc and pad set, seems fine).

The toils of age and wisdom aye? Honda parts from now on....

It still seems odd that this clicking noise could simply be a 'given'.

Kinda stumbled into this thread, I had plenty good/bad experience with EBC rotors and pads, more good. 1st thing a PSA I personally don't like to use sintered aftermarket pads on my bikes, I use OEM or organic/kevlar, etc., plenty stopping power for mere mortals and way easier on rotors. Some observations from my experience with EBC rotors that where quickly damaged because wrong pads where used!!, all replaced by EBC usa   
 
 Need to make sure the oem brake or EBC rotor you installed is made for/compatible with your pads, usually the aftermarket or sintered pads are more agressive than oem pads on rotors, they are meant to be, etc. on the flip side a soft pad/non metallic pad may not transfer heat properly and overheat.
 
 You should not use oem shims on aftermarket brake pads unless specified, only ones supplied with pads or no shim. adding or deleting a shim will change the heat transfer/cooling of pads and how they work.

 By looking at pics I can tell the oem pad is better at cooling and designed with multiple pads possibly to deal with linked brake system. The EBC has more contact area more friction/heat. Definitely overheated.

Loosemarbles wrote:

These discs and pads were not from Honda.....Uh..Oh! (Snip)

It seems that the Honda dealer parts counters I’ve encountered over here all want to sell me EBC pads. Very willing to special order me OEM pads, mind you, but they do have EBC’s on hand.

And IIRC  a set (one pair) Silverwing front pads is half a set (of two pair) of older Goldwing front pads. So it’s not as if SW pads are an odd size or application.

I can get OEM front + rear brake pads for aprox. $80 and way better overall than aftermarket IMO. Not sure about other side of big pond, OP should call EBC UK customer service, worth a shot, same call in USA got me all new/compatible free parts, aprox $500 !!

Here's a good use for old brake rotors. Clock wall ornament.

Bought a set of Galfer rotors for my FJR along time ago worked well for about 2 years then started to pulsate very much much had to remove them installed  old OE rotors no problem since.  BIG $$$ and not so great.

New OE Honda pads going on soon

Paid $65 over here for front.

Thanks for all the input. I've sent pics of the pads and discs to EBC.

I'm happy to order OEM pads but can anyone tell me if the OEM pads will work OK with the new discs?

(I don't want to change the discs unless I have to).

Oem pads will work fine(best IMO) on "EBC OEM STYLE" replacement rotors they are made of stainless steel like OEM(possibly a propietary alloy), p/n MD1006. 

 The contour style "C" suffix are usually harder for more agressive HH pads. MD1006C.

 IAC EBC makes 3 different pad materials and 2 style rotors for the SW ?
 The specific p/n's of your rotors and pads will help(me) determine compatability. 

 If there's no scoring, warping or overheat indication by all means install your choice of pads and ride on, they are wear parts after all. BTW you should clean/lightly score the surface of rotors with red scothbrite,etc., before switching pads, helps break in.

Wow, thanks for that. That's some valuable and interesting info. I'm learning.

After emailing EBC today along with photos, they phoned me and here's what the guy had to say;

1. The pads I have are GG pads and they seem to be wearing normally as they are organic pads. He also said that the new disc was wearing normally too.

2. He is going to send me a free set of GG (sinted) pads as he recons that they provide more 'bite' on initial application. He rejected my concerns that that GG pads will eat up my disc more quickly.

3. He said that the GG pads will create a kind of dull scraping noise but this is normal.

4. He was happy with my existing disc and pad combination as they are, but suggested I try the GGs anyway.

5. He couldn't explain the clicking noise I am currently getting.

6. Don't use shims with any of these pads unless they come in the packaging.

I don't think I can live with the clicking noise so I figured I would try the GG pads and see how they behave. I have ordered some OEM pads, but I will have aged before they arrive, so I'll try out the GGs and post my results. I have a strange feeling that I won't be happy until the OEM pads are in there but who knows?

You might give this a try with the current set of pads and or the new set, With a fine file break the squared of edges just enough to see the difference on the pad edge, see if the click and or noise quiets down.

My 2ct. based on my motorcycle mechanic experience. EBC makes 3 types of pads for the SW, SFA organic, SFAC organic+carbon, SFAHH Sintered metal, the SFA desination is for scooter use, the "GG" is a friction rating and highest available for road use vehicles, "HH" friction rated pads are generally for racing or off road use, No OEM pads have a HH designation, they are sintered but are still limited to a "GG" rating.

 With all that said the SW is a very heavy scooter, use the best pads that will work !!

 IAC brakes just slow you down ...   

 Flame suit on .... 

Just put the OE pads on you'll just go from a click-click to squeak-squeal with sintered pads. Tried some EBC pads on the rear of one of my bikes years ago just made a lot of noise never were that great in stopping either.

All of the above is well noted. It's an interesting topic and I wonder whether it's all been over-engineered.

The brakes are pulling up just fine but the clicking noise cannot be considered as normal. I take 'oldwingguy's' point. Also, the guy from EBC did consider the SW to be a 'fast' motorcycle which is why he was banging on about my current arrangement being satisfactory.

Weirdly, the same EBC disc and pads on the rear seem to be fine, or at least I think so!

On conventional/non abs and linked brake bikes is a good practice to use a less agressive aftermarket pad on rear brake to prevent rear wheel lock-up, most bike rear brakes are less powerfull, in the case of the SW linked brakes, the rear brake master is more powerfull, very possible to lock-up rear on non abs models with wrong pad choice.

For Honda ridden in all weathers---rain/snow/sand/salt best and easy way to clear noise---squirt the pad contact area with garden hose now and then. Saves taking things apart and monkeying.

Like you, John, I ride in all weathers (apart form salted roads) and I generally keep the calipers as clean as possible. This clicking noise is definitely mechanical. It's too pronounced and regular to be a foreign object.

mech 1 twa's comment leads me to ask; why use anything but OEM parts? Prior to this venture I always found the OEM brakes to do the job, even on motorways with pillion and baggage....yeah, I know, pillions are baggage!

On our last visit to Belgium I had to lock-up at 80mph on a motorway due to an artic' making an abrupt lane change.

My gut tells me I'm going to end up full circle with OEM discs and pads.

OEM stuff works for me. On 11th new Maxi scooter since 1990----I get rid of them at the 50,000 mile mark.....as I do not like monkeying with them, riding more fun.

We did have a front brake clicking problem once with a cbr6, we eventually traced it to a slightly worn brake pin allowing the pads to move a bit. The braking still worked fine and the clicking was only noticeable at very slow speeds.
EBC sintered pads give a nice whooshing sound as they slow you down.

Slightly worn brake pin aye? I had to remove a fair bit of corrosion from my brake pin the first time I changed the pads after the bike had been somewhat neglected by the previous owner.

I wonder if removing the rust, quite aggressively, has reduced the pin diameter somewhat?

Perhaps a new pin would help the situation?

Well it could be a combination of weak/bent caliper "anti rattle metal clips" and worn lower pin. you can adjust/bend clips where they are preloading brake pads a little more and a snug fit in caliper, the pin is available from Honda and it's standard item on "All balls" caliper repair kits, I've seen guys put a little high temp RTV under clips ??, IAC good working anti rattle clips should compesate for most normal wear.

BTW the lower pin on my bike is not rusted, but has some slight groove marks, no noise at all, clips were tweaked/adjusted on last clean/inspect, still oem pads at 12k.

I did gently bend the spring clips so that I had to hold the pads against the clip while inserting the retaining pin to make sure that the pads are 'snug'. I don't feel any 'slack' in them while they're in position.

I did notice that the rubber O ring on the end of the pin is slightly perished. Maybe time for a new one.

I'm hoping that the OEM pads will cure my problem. They should be here any day now so I'll post my findings.

I think mine has the same noise - I presumed it was something to do with the ABS sensor (as I've never had a bike with ABS before). I do believe the brakes are not very good (IMO) though, so there could be a more sinister problem there.

The result of my findings as promised.

I installed the OEM pads and the clicking noise has gone. In fact, the brakes make no noise at all nowe. So I am now running on EBC discs with OEM pads. Logically, it was the EBC pads which were causing the clicking noise.

Having bedded in the new pads, both front and rear brakes are working better then ever before.

Davetech, has your clicking suddenly started out of the blue or have you been changing discs and pads?

Loosemarbles wrote:

The result of my findings as promised.

I installed the OEM pads and the clicking noise has gone. So I am now running on EBC discs with OEM pads. Logically, it was the EBC pads which were causing the clicking noise. (Snip)

 
I wonder if the EBC pads have a larger guide pin (“hanger pin” in Honda speak) hole than OEM pads. If so that might make for a looser fit and account for the clicking noise.

Loosemarbles wrote:

The result of my findings as promised.

I installed the OEM pads and the clicking noise has gone. In fact, the brakes make no noise at all nowe. So I am now running on EBC discs with OEM pads. Logically, it was the EBC pads which were causing the clicking noise.

Having bedded in the new pads, both front and rear brakes are working better then ever before.

Davetech, has your clicking suddenly started out of the blue or have you been changing discs and pads?

I haven’t changed disc or pads yet. It has been making the noise since I got it last year.

Davetech, maybe you should check your make of discs and pads.

Further to Tim’s query.

The OEM guide pin hole measures 12mm. The EBC measures 12.5m. Could 0.5mm make a difference? Maybe someone else could take the measurements to compare with mine. I am using a mechanical caliper style gauge.

Incidently, the 0.5mm difference also applies to the width of the 'seating flange', (if that's what it's called), of the backing plate.

TBH, I didn't like the surface of the EBC pads. Just didn't look right. As a layman on the subject I can't comment on the technical science behind this phenomenon.

Loosemarbles, the measurements you posted, to what Reference Number they correspond in the diagram I posted on 04/26 ??

Item number 3. The brake pad itself. I assumed that what Tim was referring to?

Loosemarbles wrote:

Item number 3. The brake pad itself. I assumed that what Tim was referring to?

 I think he meant the hole diameter/size where pin #19 fits, as if they are same or bigger on EBC than OEM pads ??

Yes, those are my findings. The holes at the bottom of the brake pad back plate, not the holes in the caliper housing..??

Well to be honest I was a little confused by those numbers, so looked at my bike(2012/12k miles/oem brakes), so I removed the pad retaining pin and outer brake pad, my used parts measured at follows, hole in the pad is oval, is bigger in the direction of rotation,allows pad to move fwd/aft, slightly. 

 IAC the most worn part of my pin was 5.92mm/.233in., the pics show the numbers on pad, so there's aprox. .08mm/.003 in radial play and 1.08mm/.043 in. fwd/aft. parallel to rotation.

So how EBC pads compare to these numbers ??

Sorry, my mistake. I got my numbers mixed up. I understand your confusion.

The new EBC pad hole shows (at it's widest part) as 7.5mm. The OEM pad hole shows (at it's widest part) as 7mm. Still a 0.5mm difference. So we're not far off in our measurements.

Could this be the cause of the clicking noise as Tim suggested?