It's been a while

I've not been here for a while, and I have good reason unfortunately.

Monday 7th October I was riding home on my Silverwing, approx 70mph around the M25, approx 19:00hrs, just before the M40 turn off, reasonable traffic, I was in the 3rd of 4 lanes. Raining but not heavy rain and the bike just let go at the back end. I don't know if I hit something, a patch of derv, antifreeze, who knows. Rear tyre is a pretty much brand new Metzeller, but has 1000 miles at least on it.

But the rear end went to the right, I caught that, then it went left, and at that point it started to get out of hand. So I parted company with the bike and I thought, kind of "not again"...

I went left, the bike went right, then sorted itself out and fell onto it's left side and slid down the road. I recall seeing the sparks as the centre stand hit the deck.

I was bouncing down the road, when I thought I had stopped the survival instinct took over, I tried to stand up but I was still sliding, went arse over tit and mashed my left pinkie when I landed.
Then I got up, after I was sure I had stopped, there was a guy in a white van looking at me with his mouth wide open... He put his flashers on, a truck driver made a road block and I walked to the side of the road... I walked to the hard shoulder. I'm a very lucky bloke.

Now I've had time to "relive" it a few times when asleep... More than a few times actually I now know the guy in the white van was zig zagging all over the place keeping me in front of him so I didn't get clobbered. And I never thanked him... It felt like someone had pulled out and hit the back of the bike knocking it off track, but I really was a passenger after the 2nd zag, no way I was getting it back, nothing to grip with your knees on a scooter. Whether I left the bike voluntarily is moot, I wasn't staying on it.

Three people stopped, two of them picked my bike up and put it on the side stand. One, a welsh sounding lady called an ambulance (I was winded, shall we say) and basically we sat there for 45 minutes until a Police car rolled up. No ambulance arrived. At all, she went a bit ballistic at the police officer because there was no ambulance "How do you know he hasn't got internal injuries?" kind of indignation... One of the guys who stopped apparently caught it on his dash cam, he's sent footage but I can't see anything except that I wasn't side swiped. I was hurting a bit, but my internal "what hurts" monitor wasn't firing warnings off.

I went to my Silverwing, it started first press of the tit. So when the Police officer turned up, he had a quick look at me, the bike, asked me if I had recovery or "Was I going to continue my journey". I elected to continue my journey. Gave the welsh lady a hug, thanked everyone else, and rode home, thought my visor was badly steamed up and it was raining heavy so I was riding very slowly (for me) anyway, turns out the visor was badly scratched..

I'm a lucky boy.

Net result is my wife and daughter have hidden all my bike keys (except I know where I put the spares). And they don't want me to ride again, I kinda get that.

My bike gear. Did it's job. My hat has some impact damage this time. My jacket burned through eventually on the left elbow, I had a friction burn on my elbow. I have two cracked ribs, so the back protector did it's job. I had bruises on my belly, my elbow, my legs, some absolute crackers actually...

My wet legs lifted up, I have a tear in my kevlar jeans, right leg about where the top of my boot came to.
My "Racer" gloves protected my hands as well as I can expect I guess. I have a permanent "bend" on my pinkie because basically I mashed the middle finger joint to pieces. But I can move it, cannot form a fist though.

My Silverwing, well it needs a bit of fibreglass repair.

I'm not at all convinced fat bikers bounce better... And as I had absolutely no warning at all that the bike was going to do what it did, I really don't trust scooters at all now. Because I believe that had I had a tank to grip it wouldn't have got so out of hand, but all the weight is at the rear, nothing to hold onto except the bars if it starts to get a bit frisky.

Anyway, at least it got me three days off until I could walk without crying again... And I have agreed to not use any bike for the rest of this year. I'll revisit it when I stop working for Xmas, decide what I'm going to do. I do need to spend a lot of money on new bike gear though.

Wow, Trevor. Sorry to hear of your mishap but glad to hear that you weren’t seriously injured. Yes, do take some time off to sort your head.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Tim

Holy smokes that's a crazy story - thanks for sharing it. Glad it wasn't worse. Get well soon.

Wow your one lucky guy to have survived that and good luck with the healing.

Speedy recovery Trevor, very lucky indeed mate

Take it steady bud, best wishes for a speedy recovery

So if I can figure out how to send pictures....

You write well. It's a pleasure to read your thoughts and tales.

Have you formed a best-guess theory of what happened on the M-25 that evening?

Hi Lost it ,

Have a speedy recovery and step on a new ride as soon as possible so you can feel free again....

Michel

Sad to hear Lost It. But great to hear it wasn't worse. I wish you a speedy recovery with no permanent injuries. Take your time healing and getting back in the saddle, so to speak.

Me too .... glad to hear you survived this event. Hope you heal well and fast. Your story is a scary one indeed but it helps the rest of us to realize, again, just how quickly things can go bad. It would be interesting to see the dash cam video to help cement that fact. Do you think you hit an oily patch on the rain soaked road? Sounds like you were on ice.

Take care ...

Mike

Ah. The things I've seen on the M25. Ladders, scaffold poles, one of my contacts once barely missed a roof box that had come adrift, push bikes, sometimes complete with carriers...

Could have been anything, the lane would have been used by lots of vehicles, so it could have been anything that doesn't mix well with water. Antifreeze, petrol, diesel, even a sheen of paint. I couldn't see anything on the bike, but I did ride it a further 50 odd miles to get home so anything it might have run over would have been washed off by then. Could have been a piece of plastic, literally anything.

So no, not solid theories, just that the bike definitely let go at the rear, not the front.

If I can get the video up on You tube I will post a link, it's not really my video so I don't know if this would be breaking any kind of copywrite? I suppose I could ask the guy's permission.

It's not that clear, but it confirmed I was wrong about being side swiped and that being the cause because there's nothing that close.

I mean technically the bike is a write off now, it needs most of the left side panels repairing or replacing, which is a shame because it was a really nice scooter. I'll strip them off as soon as I get some free time, see if I can either get a hold of some panels or rebuild what I have.

I used to own a garage that specialised in Reliant Scimitars so working with glass fibre isn't an issue for me, getting it to bond well with thermo plastic might be a challenge though. There's not much chance of me finding replacement panels I don't think.

Lost It, glad you are upright! This is not a good time for some members here. Thank God for your angels. How you escaped roadkill sliding down a 70 mph highway is not a small miracle.

One of my falls was similar, but at a much slower speed (25 mph+/-), and got some permanent scrapes on left elbow, left wrist, left ankle, and left knee. In a controlled situation, that sliding down the road would have been more fun, but when you know there is no braking until your body momentum speed stops, you hope you don't slide under another vehicle. My issue occurred on a back, curvy, hilly road on a BMW F800ST with a "tank" between my knees, which was no use when, off a slimy patch, both wheels slide like on glass to the right, and I flop to the left. Your description was right-on about loss of control. Sometimes, there's just nothing that can be done to control the spill. My insurance company gave me a generous $4700+, so I took the money and slowly pieced that side of the bike together for about $1500.

You will re-live and rethink the situation many times, and once in a while a memory will come back to help piece the puzzle together as to what really happened.

Your family is right, and my wife is right--hide the keys. But if you are as foolish as me, you'll get back on two wheels.

70 is well fast enough to get hydroplaning especially with something as light as a scooter. I've experienced it with a 45 foot motor coach. It was in rain but not all that heavy as I was heading back to the barn after off loading my passengers. Not very exciting, but the speedometer and tach started upscale even though I hadn't increased any pressure on the gas pedal. It didn't take much time for me to realize the bus was hydroplaning, it felt like being on wet ice. Easing off the throttle allowed the drive wheels to get a grip on the road and everything settled down to normal. I sure would have hated to experience a hydro planing spin out with a big tour bus.

The speed at which hydro planning starts is 50 mph. Happened to me in Iowa, SR500 Yamaha, didn't go down but scared the crap out of me....like floating with no control.

Hydroplaning speed depends on the depth of the water, road surface, depth of water, bike weight, and tire shape and pressure. It can vary considerably with the same vehicle and speed.

What about tyre tread depth, the tyre tread and sipes are essential for pushing water away from the tyres contact patch with the road surface.

Lucky escape there Lost It. The main thing is you're OK, the bike is just a money problem.

The accident really sounds like a hydroplaning. It's like suddenly finding yourself riding on wet ice, little steering control so one tends to over control which will cause a bike to swing the opposite way, which causes the rider to steer the opposite way which swerves the bike and the cycle repeats until usually the bike goes down. It happens with good new tires as well. More likely with tires that have fewer grooves in the tread. I've had the experience with a charter bus (thankfully deadheading back to the shop empty, a truck I used to have and once on a bike. Even had it on a runway when landing in heavy rain at Chilliwack, British Columbia in an airplane of mine. Really interesting phenomenon but better observed than participating in.

It has a Bridgstone hoop on the front with 4mm of tread and a practically new Metzeller on the rear, now the Metzeller looks like the old Z6 pattern, with quite a wide centre with not much in the way of tread for a section approx. 3/4 inch across. So I don't really think it was hydro planning (Aquaplaning over here) because, well lets face it the bike weighs almost quarter of a tonne, plus my large backside and most of that is on the back end, I would think short of me hitting a section of road that was completely flooded 70mph even in heavy rain wouldn't be enough to lift the tyre off the road.

It's possible, but I've ridden with a Z6 type of pattern on my bikes for years and never experienced it before. I was just unlucky to have something cause the bike to behave so badly but lucky to get away with it as I did.

Still in two minds whether to give up scootering, it has made me reconsider just how safe a maxi scoot is if a little bit of rain can make it so unstable. I was going in a straight line, I would have thought the front tyre would have cleared most of the water away before the rear tyre got there. Unless of course it because it throws it straight at the rear tyre that is enough to create a wedge of water? It doesn't rain half as hard over here as it does in the US, very rare it's so heavy that you can't see for mist anyway.

No, I think I'll have to just put it down to one of those incidents. With no real explanation.

But I do need a couple of panels to put the bike back together, I have a bit of time off coming up so I'll pull it down and see what I need to get a hold of to make the bike pretty again. Definitely the panel that has the glove box in, that's smashed to bits.

I have a 04 600, with a part of the right front missing, was like it when I bought it

Local Honda shop quoted me around £380 for a new front, bit too much for me right now but I could be interested in your front if it is the same, I could sorta cut and shut the two as your left is damaged, I don't live far from M25, J 29 Westcliff

So you should be able to get parts from Honda

There is an insert image button above, attach file link is at the bottom, not used it

[Re: Aquaplaning]

Lost it wrote:

Unless of course it because it throws it straight at the rear tyre that is enough to create a wedge of water

So if that is a possibility, would adding a mudflap to the front fender reduce the chances of that happening?

Cannot believe you came out of that with so little injuries. You are a fortunate dude, but you also had the forethought to dress appropriately.

Can you imagine the retelling if you had on a pair of shorts, a t-shirt and tennis shoes with no helmet? Story would have been much different.

Best in future.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

[Re: Aquaplaning]

Lost it wrote:

Unless of course it because it throws it straight at the rear tyre that is enough to create a wedge of water

So if that is a possibility, would adding a mudflap to the front fender reduce the chances of that happening?

I would have thought Honda would have anticipated it during design and testing. But then again it wasn't on Honda rubber so maybe yes. Or even a mudflap under the centre of the body?

Something to consider.

If it had matching rubber, because the designs of tyres do tend to complement each other maybe it might have had a bearing.

Whatever, I think I'll be taking it off that Metzeller because something made it happen.

This is what is on the rear of it.

https://www.metzeler.com/en-ww/products/tyres/feelfree

I doubt a mud flap on the front wheel would be a good deterrent to hydroplaning. In fact it might actually make it more likely since a mud flap would direct the water straight down in front of the rear wheel. As it is the front wheel does tend to create a drier track for the rear wheel to follow by throwing a lot of the water it hits to the sides.

You may notice that if rain begins after a somewhat dry period, a paved road will show fairly clearly the kaleidoscopic multi-colors created by the meeting of oil and water, particularly in the middle of a lane where most of the excess oil drips from cars. I especially noticed this one rainy time when entering a highway off-ramp. It is always advisable to slow down in rain, especially after rain hits the road after a dry period.

I almost killed a good Samaritan who was flagging traffic to the left lane while trying to keep traffic from an accident in the right lane. I was going about 50 mph and turned the wheel of my truck to the left, but it didn't respond and hydroplaned straight in the direction of the flagger. I eventually recovered traction in slowing down, but it was close. Needless to say, within a few days I replaced all 4 worn tires with new tread.

When I was a young fellow riding my Cushman scooter at Edwards AFB on the Mojave desert it was exciting to ride during the rare rains in winter. Very slippery after a summer in the 100+ range and the 1950s autos that were more prone to leak oil on the road.