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 Front Wobble on Decel

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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 1226
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Front Wobble on Decel Empty
PostSubject: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 30, 2019 8:32 pm

So a while back I posted that I experienced a front end wobble on deceleration one day when I took both hands of the bars to zip up my jacket. My tires were worn so I put a new set on. Wobble was still there but not as bad. This is been bugging me for about a yr now. Finally I performed road test with the following changes.

Air press at 30 psi front and 35 rear
Top box on but empty
Results: Huge wobble.

Next removed top box
Results: No change.

Next put top box back on and raised front tire pressure to 35 psi
Results: Wobble almost gone!!!

Next took top box off again
Results: Wobble completely gone!!!!!

So I feel the problem is a combination of soft sidewalls and extended attachments up high and off the back. The SW just doesn't like it.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3238
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 30, 2019 10:36 pm

Thank you for posting this, Toolman. Great info to have.

We all benefit from shared information.

Tim
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Lost it
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 126
Age : 63
Location : Hayling Island UK
Points : 324
Registration date : 2019-05-13

Front Wobble on Decel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31, 2019 12:13 am

35 psi in the front? I think it might pay to check the state of your head bearings...
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The Bern
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
The Bern

Number of posts : 814
Location : Telford, UK
Points : 2716
Registration date : 2014-11-20

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31, 2019 4:53 am

Presumably the wheel is balanced ?
Check tyre for eneven wear pattern.
For topbox fitment, try fitting heavier handlebar end weights (sometimes supplied with the box)
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3238
Age : 76
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 7568
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Front Wobble on Decel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31, 2019 9:52 am

Toolman: Further to your observations re front end wobble, I wonder how much your million dollar custom shocks play into this (i.e. decel weight shift or the lack of it)?


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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sc00ter
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 107
Location : Norfolk, VA
Points : 603
Registration date : 2018-07-16

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31, 2019 9:55 am

The triple tree is a single yoke on Silverwing scooters. While fine in normal use it tends to protest under certain conditions. My Silverwing had a leaking fork seal and worn front tire when I purchased it. Wobbled like crazy when slowing down. Got a new front tire and rebuilt the fork seals (OEM oil and springs) and rebuilt the headset bearings. Was greatly improved afterwards. Tire pressure is very important as is proper weight loading. Mine has a medium sized GIVI top box.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
exavid

Number of posts : 2442
Age : 76
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6352
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 31, 2019 10:00 pm

Strictly speaking (or writing) there is no triple tree on a Silver Wing scooter. The triple in triple tree comes from the way most motorcycle forks are built. There are three tubes joined usually by the top plate and a lower triangular plate that the steering head tube and the upper end of the shock tube are held togther. The Silver Wing's fork is much like the nose wheel on aircraft. A single shaft through the head bearings to the handle bars and a casting where the fork tubes and steering shaft tube meet. Plenty strong for the loads put on it.

The Goldwing motorcycle have a similar head shake usually only noticed by allowing the bike to decelerate through 35 mph where the head shake usually occurs. It's similar on the SW, it's not a violent wobblie like the dangerous ones some Harley bikes had at high speed. At 35mph or so there just isn't that much energy in the system to get violent. Usually one hand lightly on a grip will stop or prevent it.

Now if anyone is looking for some real tank slapping wobbling try a '49 Triumph 650 with the friction knob on the fork not screwed down snugly at road speeds. Downright scary.
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Loosemarbles
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Loosemarbles

Number of posts : 333
Location : South East England
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02, 2019 2:11 pm

I can't confess to be an expert on this subject but I thought it was all down to the small wheels on the SW. I have a new front wheel which is balanced and a new tyre...it wobbles a bit at certain decel speeds when I let go of the handlebars. I thought it was normal!
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
exavid

Number of posts : 2442
Age : 76
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6352
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 02, 2019 6:44 pm

On a Goldwing a well balanced new front tire often eliminated the 35mph deceleration head shake....
for awhile. My BMW C650 scooter also had the same symptom as does my current Silver Wing. On both the Goldwing and Silverwing I've experimented by going hands off and slapping one or the other grips at varying speeds. It takes nerve at the higher speeds but I did it. I've never found a violent tank slapper wobble like the Harleys were afflicted with. Those were downright dangerous because they happened at high speed which meant there was a lot more energy in the wobble. Something like that could result in disintegration of the fork followed by the rest of the bike and rider.

I've never heard of anyone with a Honda product in good condition having a dangerous wobble. As an experiment when you do get a quiver in the fork just put one hand or a couple of fingers on the grip and you will find it quits immediately.
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Loosemarbles
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Loosemarbles

Number of posts : 333
Location : South East England
Points : 1505
Registration date : 2016-10-01

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 03, 2019 1:16 pm

exavid wrote:
As an experiment when you do get a quiver in the fork just put one hand or a couple of fingers on the grip and you will find it quits immediately.

When I experimented with that wobble I found that by resting my index finger on either of the hand grips the wobble stopped. Unless you're getting wobble with both hands on the bars, don't worry about it. As I said, I think it's normal for this type of design.

Solution: Don't let go of the handlebars Wink
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
exavid

Number of posts : 2442
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Location : Medford, Oregon
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 03, 2019 10:22 pm

That kind of head shake is not unusual in bikes with fairings. My previous two Silver Wings did it as well as my BMW C650GT. It doesn't seem to be two threatening and doesn't seem to take any effort to stop it.

Early Goldwings had a pretty impressive headshake. Honda solved it with a heavy weight on the frame which would oscillate out of phase with the head shake. Not too sophisticated but it fixed the problem on that bike.
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mondodemundo
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Number of posts : 11
Location : South Carolina
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Registration date : 2019-08-21

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 26, 2019 10:12 am

Heavier bar end weights will often help with the wobble or head shake that happens if you like to load the top case. You can find some that weigh about a pound each, and these usually make it go away. They can also make the ride a lot smoother in general.
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Sepp
Scooter Rider
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Sepp

Number of posts : 82
Location : west of the Sahara
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Registration date : 2019-10-09

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2019 9:45 am

My previous owner installed heavier weights what did not look too nice, but he kept the old ones.
My new owner did not like what he saw, took a dremel, cut off the inside part of the new ones , combined the old ones with the new ones and put a black O-ring in between to hide the little gap.
Result, Bigger, Longer and Cut (South Park movie reference)
picture 2 is before the repainting.

Front Wobble on Decel Grip110
Front Wobble on Decel Grip210
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https://hosiwi.blogspot.com/
exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
exavid

Number of posts : 2442
Age : 76
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6352
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 27, 2019 11:29 pm

One risk of adding weights to the bar ends is that there still will be a wobble frequency. It may not be at the same speed and conditions as before but there will still be a resonant point and the heavier the bard ends the more energy that can be absorbed by the wobble which could make some unusual wobble responses at an unexpected speed.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel

Number of posts : 2829
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28, 2019 5:22 am

And to think most motorcycles used to come with friction type steering dampeners!! Prevented or al most eliminated de-cel wobble and almost 100% necessary for sidecar use.
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Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew

Number of posts : 3281
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wobble on Decel   Front Wobble on Decel I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 28, 2019 5:49 am

Yes, but it's a long time ago since they were. I remember owning a couple of 1970's 250cc MZ's with friction type steering dampers. I never used them and never had to, they were installed for when owners decided to fit the MZ Super Elastik sidecar.

I can't remember any motorcycle or maxi scooter I've owned having handlebar shakes and wobbles, apart from one isolated occasion in the Eighties coming back from a miserably cold Dragon Rally in North Wales.

I had a front wheel puncture on a motorway on the way home As the tubed tyre suddenly went flat and my sphincter puckered up, I had to really wrestle with the the handlebars to get safely over onto what we call 'the hard shoulder'.   Neutral .
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