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 If you know your wiring, I need your help

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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
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dspevack

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PostSubject: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 9:24 am

You all know I do my best to provide you with every mod possible for the Silverwing.
Now I need your help to do this.

I came upon this site:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://matuab2002.fc2web.com/03_custum_03_soukou/001_kaigai/untitled.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E3%2582%25B7%25E3%2583%25AB%25E3%2583%2590%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2582%25A6%25E3%2582%25A4%25E3%2583%25B3%25E3%2582%25B0%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DrqD%26lr%3D%26client&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgeAnHSQr7EtVKFymNcIs2kiW9Umg

If you scroll down, it apparently shows you how to get to a fuel map that is built into the Silverwing, that will give more power, by changing around some wires.

Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out what of the information is necessary to do this mod, and create a how-to for the board.

Thank you in advance for all your hard work.

Dan


Last edited by dspevack on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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masscoot
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 10:00 am

Dan,
I have thought of a new title for you (other than what we call you already If you know your wiring, I need your help Icon_wink )

Chief of Research-Honda Silver Wing

Research synonyms:
R and D, analysis, delving, experimentation, exploration, fact-finding, fishing expedition, groundwork, inquest, inquiry, inquisition, investigation, legwork, probe, probing, quest, scrutiny

Thanks for all you do!
The translation is difficult but I will read through it and see if I can make heads or tails of it. Someone already familiar with the PC might be able to equate some of the info to the explanation.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 10:09 am

Hi Dan,

A-14 HPC HPC Switching destination

On American Silverwings.

Pin A-14 is a N/C (No Connect) on Ameican model 600cc Silverwings. Is any thing there...I just don't know.

Pin B-2 is a switch/circuit controlled Power wire for the f/I system.

It just all depends what the signal is that's comming out of the ECM, Pin A-14 and Pin B-2 when the scooters power is switched on. You would need to get a copy of the stock map to check it out. Pin A-14 might be nothing.


Last edited by DennisB on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
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dspevack

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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 10:19 am

Mascoot,
I will take that as a compliment,
and if you have anything to add to what Dennis posted that would be great.

Dennis,
Is the "stock map" information any dealership should be able to pull up in their documentation, or would that be specialty information that I could only get from Honda?

If I were to go to the dealership, EXACTLY what document should I ask for?

Dan
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 10:52 am

Dan,

You might be able to get it from the Honda dealer. I would ask for a print out of the ECM MAP documentation in reference to ECM Pin-out signal names for American model FSC600's.

This all sounds interesting and I hope it does work. Sounds like a built in Power Commander up grade without the benefit of a upgrade port.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 11:06 am

I was just thinking, if this works... a person could set up this wire as a power burst switch on the handelbar cover and when not needed could drop back to the standard map for fuel economy reasons when the extra power is not needed.


Last edited by DennisB on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
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dspevack

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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 11:15 am

Sounds like a New DennisB Silverwing accessory!

There were actually rumors of a feature like that on Japanese Silverwings, similar to the button on the Burgman, but in 5 years of owning a Silverwing, this is the first documentation of that possibility I've come across.
And on his web page, he calls it a T-mode, which is the term I remember hearing.

Dan
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 4:14 pm

The article mentions part #'s . Those are all USA honda #'s.
rollers JP == 35 gr , US = 28gr.
Clutch springs from US
Driven face plate. (he is talking about using the US plate. I think the ramp for the pins must be different.

We already have the above.

Now the biggie.

wiring change on the ecm............. let me look into that some more........ It may be a different ecm than we have. The two maps he was talking about , may be one when inputs are all working and a null map to fall back on when all the inputs are not working... (kinda like when the check engine light comes on in US cars some input isn't working.) This makes the injectors go rich on the fuel. (this is called limp mode by Ford)

I'm not too crazy about shorting that wire, without more study.

MaxB
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 4:37 pm

MaxB,

I agree. The cost of replacing a ECM (ECU) is high. When I looked at the sch. Dia. in the U.S. model silverwing shop manual it showed no wire connected to A, P-14. I think I will go ahead and remove the left rear cover to take a look tomorrow.
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
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dspevack

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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 5:02 pm

I went to the Honda Dealer today as you suggested, Dennis,
The mechanic pointed me toward the Silverwing manual, Diag 22.1 on the top. ECM wiring Harnesses A & B, but I can't read more than that without a microscope. I also have no idea what I'm looking at if I could read it.

Dan
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 5:27 pm

That's the same Wiring Diagram I have to look at. Most of the Honda techs are just plug & play guys and don't get into Map programs. Looks like MaxB is getting on the right track.

The wiring diagram in the thread you posted has a wire going to A, P-14.
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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
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dspevack

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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 5:44 pm

MaxB and DennisB

Thank you both for taking the time to look at this.
Between Dennis' physical look tomorrow, and Max's study of the parts,
I'm sure this mystery will be cracked in short order.

Dan

P.S.

Dennis,
You keep typing A, P-14. Don't you mean A-14 & B-2?
That was the information from your first post.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 6:53 pm

Here is a picture of the ECM Wiring ... there is no A-14 wire

If you know your wiring, I need your help Honda_10
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Dan , Sorry...the "P" stands for PIN.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 7:16 pm

I don't think I can solve this one.

1. No wire on #14 in my manual
2. No idea what is on the end of wires (inputs/outputs). US and JP
3. No Japanese model wire diagram to compare inputs/outputs.
4. no ecm module # for JP model to see if it is the same as USA model.

It appears (my guess) that the poster is putting 12V power to #14 which in my reading the translation was originally a ground or ground through something, but cut off...
This makes no sense to me.
On US model there is 5V and 12V going to/from the unit. Someone may be braver than me to put power on # 14. Also if the internal wiring is different be prepared to buy a new ECM.
I think this is a jury rigged way to achieve the same results as you get with a power Commander.

That's my take on it.

MaxB
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 7:25 pm

DennisB wrote:
MaxB,

I agree. The cost of replacing a ECM (ECU) is high. When I looked at the sch. Dia. in the U.S. model silverwing shop manual it showed no wire connected to A, P-14. I think I will go ahead and remove the left rear cover to take a look tomorrow.

Dennis Don't waste your time , I bet the wire is not there. If they didn't put the wire in for the power outlet in the left pocket. they surely didn't put that one in either.
Your call.
MaxB (who is waiting for his very own power Commander to come in)
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dspevack
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dspevack

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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 7:38 pm

If you know your wiring, I need your help Eng01_ecu4If you know your wiring, I need your help Honda_10
MaxB
Here is most of the Japan schematic and right below it Bill's pic of the USA Schematic.
We may not be able to read Japanese, but we can see the similarities and differences of which wires to are connected. The japanese image is taken from that same link.

I think I may understand this now.
He may have switched it to the way we already have it.
What he calls the T-mode I think is what the USA has normally.
It makes sense, since all the other parts requested are US Spec.
B2 is connected to solenoids for exhaust air injection,purge control, as well as injectors, and fuel pump relays, and that's just what I can see on 22.1.
Maybe if we wanted the other map, we would have to plug b2 into A14?
Which according to him would be a downgrade?


What do you think?

Dan
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 8:38 pm

Guy's, I just wish we had a ECM to burn (just a figure of speech). Something out of a wrecked Silverwing we could hook-up and try. O'well... maybe someday.
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MaxB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2009 9:17 pm

dspevack wrote:
If you know your wiring, I need your help Eng01_ecu4If you know your wiring, I need your help Honda_10
MaxB
Here is most of the Japan schematic and right below it Bill's pic of the USA Schematic.
We may not be able to read Japanese, but we can see the similarities and differences of which wires to are connected. The japanese image is taken from that same link.

I think I may understand this now.
He may have switched it to the way we already have it.
What he calls the T-mode I think is what the USA has normally.
It makes sense, since all the other parts requested are US Spec.
B2 is connected to solenoids for exhaust air injection,purge control, as well as injectors, and fuel pump relays, and that's just what I can see on 22.1.
Maybe if we wanted the other map, we would have to plug b2 into A14?
Which according to him would be a downgrade?


What do you think?

Dan

B2 is a ground if you trace it back far enough. Not sure what is on the other end. I looked at '07 and newer schem also nothing on US ECM.
This tells me that whatever it is is a sink to make that output go high. But it still doesnt tell me what it is.

T-mode may well be that circuit that shuts the motor off when sitting at a traffic light .......who knows.

MaxB
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2009 1:04 pm

Well Guy's, I'm out of the game.

I looked at my ECM today and the connectors are both 32 pins and not 22. They changed it for year 2008. What's new. If you know your wiring, I need your help Suspect
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2009 1:36 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmm.............

Wonder what Honda has up its sleeve, that it needs another 20 pins for its ECM?

Thanks for trying Dennis.

Dan
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2020 5:43 pm

i have a fjs600 with t-mode and i can tell you, its night and day!

especially after i took out the 35g rollers, changed the angle of the variator a bit, put it a white malossi spring, fixed the ramps on the variator a bit, took off some weight out of it... machined it... put 20g rollers

WOAH!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2020 5:44 pm

now my big question is, my mechanic has been tellin me that if i want high torque at the lower end, like really unleash the beast in it, i gotta delete the lambda sensor.

he said something about deleting the X-up! whatever that is.

please gurus

give me ur feedback
but he also said that ill suffer from the low mpg if i do that
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: If you know your wiring, I need your help   If you know your wiring, I need your help I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2020 7:07 pm

There was no lambda sensor in the early model FSC/FJS models.

Hey, why not introduce yourself to us in the, ahem, Introduction forum

Tim
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