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 Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)

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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 06, 2016 10:31 pm

Could someone with a fsm look the procedure up and just tell me how much of the plastic I'm supposed to remove and if there are any gotchas?
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cornishtrailsloth
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 4:16 am

As per manual - not actually done this so cannot say if there are any alternative/better methods

remove:

luggage box
floorstep
muffler and exhaust pipe
air cleaner housing/air cleaner chamber
starter motor

drain coolant
release fuel pressure
support on main stand
loosen the hose band disconnect water hose
remove spark plugs
disconnect the Pair control valve hose from cylinder head
disconnect MAP sensor and vacuum hose from sensor
remove bolts, nut and seat hinge stay from frame

disconnect the alternator 3P white connector
CKP sensor 2P red connector and TP sensor connector
disconnect the ECT sensor and injector connectors

disconnect the fuel return hose from fuel pipe
remove sealing nut and washers then disconnect fuel hose
disconnect crankcase breather hose from cylinder head cover

disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor/speed sensor 3P (STD type/6P after 2002 ABS type) connector
sidestand switch 2P green connector and CMP sensor 2P black connector
remove screw and disconnect oil pressure switch wire

loosen the throttle cables free play eith adjusting nut
disconnect throttle cable ends from throttle drum

disconnect the air tube from the three way joint

remove the boltsand rear brake hose/parking brake wire clamps

remove the bolt and rear brake hose clamp
remove the bolts and rear brake caliper
remove the bolts and parking caliper

place a floor jack or other support under the frame
note: don't use the oil filter as a jack point

remove the rear cushion(shock) lower mount bolts

remove the engine mount nuts

pull out the engine mount bolts and collars then remove the engine from the frame

after removing be careful not to catch hands/fingers between engine and swingarm



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janitorj1
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 3:26 pm

And of course, assembly is the reverse of the above. That's a JOB!
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 5:53 pm



A TIP:
When dismantling equipment with many different kinds/sizes/threads I use Ziploc snack bags and label them for easy assembly. Not just bolts/screws. I keep rockers and rocker ball, and other small parts. I use the bags to separate head bolts, manifold bolts, etc. Makes assembly sooooo easy. No second guessing. That my tip of the day.

[/quote]

I'll 2nd that and I label wires and connectors just in case I'm not the one putting it back together.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 6:57 pm

Thanks so much!
Well the scoot is on its way here. I'm scheduled to pickup the replacment engine in the morning. I still need to get a replacment rear wheel but I've got a line on that already.

The guy I'm getting the scoot from has a pdf service manual he is going to give me (not the German one:)

I'm planning on having the engine swapped by the end of tomorrow. I'll let everyone know how it goes (prolly start, a new thread)
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janitorj1
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 7:14 pm

I think you'll be pulling your hair out by the end of the day. IF this were a betting pool, I'd be throwing some money in for "Not in one day". Watch your screws, nuts, bolts. Zip locks is a great idea, I wrapped the fasteners in masking tape for each component on my starter job and taped them it to the component. I wound up with 3 extra screws in my pocket - got them in a bag as "extra".

Best of luck, please keep us informed.

Jon
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 7:47 pm

janitorj1 wrote:
And of course, assembly is the reverse of the above.  That's a JOB!

I say the mechanical work is the easiest part. Getting those wretched panels off, without breaking too many tabs is what drives me crazy. Those engineers at Honda responsible for designing them should be made to do a tour of the workshops and exclusively do that job only for a fortnight once a year. I am sure it would lead to some smarter designs.
Good luck with the engine swap !
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 7:59 pm

Well the panels are already off so I'm ahead of the game:)
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 07, 2016 11:04 pm

Ok she's in the garage. I hooked the battery up and gave her a little crank. Fired right up. I only ran for a few seconds because there's a hole in the bottom of the engine but it shows that, all the electronics etc are good

As a bonus its an abs model... Cool!
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 7:49 am

Sounds like you are on the road to recovery thumbs up . Another thought on the bits, I have with bolts and screws that won't fall out the " wrong side " just put them back in the correct hole and put masking tape over it, just be careful storing body panels that way. I remember one maintenance event on my G'Wing a friend stopped by and had a look see, ***** Al the last time I saw one that naked was at the factory. It used to be fun to do that now days no so much.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 5:28 pm

Ok kids  the old engine is out.   I put 3 hours in today so if I can get it back together tomorrow in 5 hours I'll hit my one day mark.   Everything went smoothly.   I did think I was going to get away with leaving the exhaust manifold on until after the engine was out.... I was wrong.   Taking it off after the engine had shifted out of its mounts was.... Challenging.

I will say that this bike is put together with the same quality and attention to detail I see when working on Honda cars.

Now to put humpty back together:)
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 08, 2016 6:11 pm

Fortunately I'm working in my full shop with power tools. I can see it taking twice as long with just basic hand tools.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 11:59 am

She's a runner! I am still waiting on a replacement rear wheel so I can't finish assembly but she's running smooth and quiet
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Cookie
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 12:44 pm

Nice one Kenny - well done mate.
I like it when people are undaunted and just 'dive in' - although I suspect that being a pro mechanic helps a bit Laughing

It was nice to hear what you said about the bike being put together with the same quality and attention to detail as Honda cars. Nice to know that Honda aren't treating their scooters as a 'poor relation'.

I don't suppose you took any pictures of the tear down/tear up did you?

Now, get that wheel sorted and enjoy...
Oh, and keep us updated.
Cheers...
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 12:48 pm

No pics sorry. I've tried doing that before and I've found it gets me out of my rhythm and I start making mistakes.

She's idling a touch rough but she's also sitting on jackstands without a rear wheel so I'll see how things are when I get it all together.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 09, 2016 12:51 pm

The wheel will be here on Friday. I'm pretty darn excited. There's always a moment of great relief when an unknown engine runs for the first time.

I honestly think anyone could do this. Yes it's a lot of work but if you take your time and stay organized (I ended up with 26 zip lock baggies it's completely doable.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 6:11 pm

Pulled both variator covers off. I found a brand new oem belt in the old one so I swapped that for the 14 year old one in the replacement. I was hoping for some sweet upgrades to be in one of them but it's all stock. I'll definitely be getting some Dr pulley sliders ASAP.

New wheel will be here tomorrow. So I should have her road tested by the end of the day!
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 7:53 pm

Well after much struggle I got the right swing arm thing off the axle. Looks like the bearing in it is shot.

I also realized that the replacement mebt wheel I have coming doesn't have the holes drilled or tapped for the abs sensor.... Whoopee... I love tapping tiny holes.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 8:18 pm

I think you'll like the scooter. I've been riding since 1957 and had a lot of bikes over the years but found the maxi scooters to be surprisingly capable, nimble, and especially great in town and stop and go riding. Easy in parking lots that used to make me sweat on a Goldwing. That SW will easily top 100mph and it doesn't take long to get there either. I put a Bestem top box on my second SW, between the under seat storage and the top box I could carry as much as I could in my GW. Easy to stuff a week's groceries in the scooter and a lot easier to find spots to park when shopping.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 10:40 pm

I hope I do. I'm really hoping I can get the bearing at my local place. I'd hate to be so close to finishing and have to wait days for one part (I'm impatient)
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 10:44 pm

Kennylxix wrote:
Well after much struggle I got the right swing arm thing off the axle.   Looks like the bearing in it is shot.

I also realized that the replacement mebt wheel I have coming doesn't have the holes drilled or tapped for the abs sensor.... Whoopee... I love tapping tiny holes.

Kenny,
Don't you need a jig to correctly position and tap for the ABS ring?

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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 10, 2016 10:55 pm

Nah the bosses are there and it's not really a super critical part to get aligned radially. I'll just line up the holes on the ring, transfer punch them and get it as close as possible.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 11:51 am

Yep, the gap between the tone wheel and the pickup is the important part. It needs to be pretty constant around the wheel but a bit of radial runout won't matter much. I had a rock hit the wheel on my GL1800 and bend the wheel just enough that sometimes the ABS worked and sometimes it didn't. Once I determined the cause with an oscilloscope it was a simple matter to pry the wheel up a wee bit on one side and voila, back in business.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 2:13 pm

Sigh... The devil truly is in the details. She's most of the way together... Enough for a quick test drive which went fine, I think... Scooters are very unfamiliar to me.

The bosses for the rear sensor are, unfortunately, not on the replacement transmission so I'm going to have to fab up a bracket. I'm just going to tie the sensor up out of the way for now. Another couple hours and I think itll be done
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 5:02 pm

Well she's all back together. It's going to take some getting used to buy I think I like it.

It does feel like it vibrates more than I would have expected. Mostly under hard acceleration. Can others please comment on this.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 11, 2016 5:29 pm

Ok so a quick RTFF and I think I'm just being paranoid. I also think the vibration is being accentuated by the fact that the PO laid it down and quite a few plastic bits are broken. It's certainly smoother than a lot of motorcycles I've ridden.

I also notice a little wonkiness at turn in but I'll reserve judgment on that one until I'm no longer riding on 10 year old bald tires:) (no I'm not riding on the road until I replace them)
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:49 am

Lose parts = vibration fix and try again. Hard lose bits in faring pockets and trunks will do the same.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 10:06 am

Kennylxix wrote:
<>quite a few plastic bits are broken

Broken tupperware? Plast-Aid is your friend. http://www.plast-aid.com/

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 2:27 pm

Black, gooey ABS cement from a hardware store works wonders with ABS plastic. It results in a chemical weld instead of surface adhesion. You can grind or sand black ABS pipe fittings to make a powder and stir in some ABS cement and voila, ABS putty. I've repaired a bunch of Goldwing panels and other plastic parts with ABS and never had any joints come loose. You can take a length of ABS pipe, cut it down one side and using a heat gun soften and flatten it out to use as as backer over serious cracks. Heat form it to the part and then glue it on with ABS cement. That worked very well for me in replacing most of the bottom of a Goldwing saddle bag that had broken up from years of being loose on the bike. Just made a doubler that fit inside the bag out of ABS plastic and cemented it in place. I've reconstructed broken off tabs that way too. form it out of ABS or build it up with ABS putty and sand and trim to shape.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 3:27 pm

Yeah I can't decide if I'm going to use plastaid or solvent welding. The plastaid gets great reviews on Amazon. I think I'm going to get it and do some testing with both options to see which one will work better
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Reg
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 4:40 pm

I followed the advice in here about the ABS cement seeing as I had an old can laying around.
Glued tab back on and figured it will never hold. But it has. I have had that same part off a couple times and the tab is solid. The ABS we have here is yellow if that makes any difference.
It is the stuff that glues the black plumbing pipe.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 1:30 am

So I found that one of the support tunes under the floor board is bent up from the little horizontal mambo she did. Unfortunately to get to it I pretty much have to take all the plastic back off. I could leave it but it makes several parts of the plastic not quite line up soooo....

Now that I know it's going to be a runner I'm going to take the opportunity to recheck all my wire and hose routing.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 3:10 am

I also realized that the throttle bodies are synchronized for the old engine which may be contributing to the somewhat vibey running. I'm going to put my carb sticks on it tomorrow and see how far out they are as well and synch them up.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 6:50 pm

It's always hard to take something back apart when you discover some fault but believe me, from experience, one always regrets and shortcuts taken once the bike is back in operation. Not to mention it's less work to do it right the first time. You'll never regret the extra effort spent.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 10:38 am

In case anyone wants to see here is a picture at the moment disassembly became assembly on the old girl

Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) Message_1478643059586
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 11:18 am

Nice pic. how about a couple three more from the sides, different angle ect.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 11:19 am

I wish I had more to show. That's the only pic I took
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Reg
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 11:27 am

Just as well. She's kind of ugly naked. Embarassed
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 11:44 am

Agreed
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 2:32 pm

How about a pic of the current condition?
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Engine Replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 3:46 pm

Whipped up a quick manometer and checked the throttle body balance. It was a littke out and the idle was set a little low. Fixed both and the engine is definitely smoother.
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 3:49 pm

As she sits right now.   I've got the rest of the panels and the windshield is off for a quick Polish.

Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) 20161114_154711
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 3:57 pm

I should have everything back together for a true maiden voyage this weekend..... Maybe
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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 6:06 pm

Wow. great job replacing your engine. Hope everything works out and it rides great.
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https://www.silverwing600.com
Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 6:20 pm

So far so good. Did another semi legal trip around the block. I'm still a littke nervous about damage from the accident I haven't found but Ive seen pretty much all the way up her skirt and it all looks good.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 14, 2016 7:47 pm

You definitely have the fastest color so it should perform well. Smile
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 15, 2016 5:40 pm

So I went and got her legal today. Took my first real, ride. She feels good. I like how slow speed maneuvering feels. I think I'm going to have to do one of the backrest mods to get a littke more leg room

Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) IMG_2618
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Kennylxix
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PostSubject: Re: Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner)   Engine replacement (was Maybe New Owner) I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 16, 2016 11:20 pm

Bypassed the stupid kickstand safety today. Not being able to leave the bike to warm up on the side stand just wasn't working for me.
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