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5 posters
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger


Number of posts : 179
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 3075
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 19, 2015 2:53 pm

Following on from last weeks fun and games with the front brake, this morning I took the silver wing for its annual test, thinking new front pads, new rear tyre and rear pas still serviceable, be a walk in the park. How wrong I was, came away with afail list longer than any I've had over 10 years on my 30+ gold wing!

Front brake switch not working, never noticed and forgot it was there, plus bloody difficult to check if it works. Parking brake sticking on, not a fail in itself as parking brake is not mandatory, but caused a fail as rear brake appeared to be sticking. Excessive travel on both brake levers, this following having to heat up front caliper to remove pad pin. Had already bled front and rear levers to flush out boiled fluid, turns out not enough.

Tester suggested, remove parking brake caliper and tie up cable till i can strip it and rebuild. Followed instructions, more of that later. Had similar problems at back caliper as front, at front the pin is covered by a rubber plug and at the rear its an ally screw in plug. Guess what it's seized ! Managed to heat it up and tap it round to get it moving, pad pin then came out smoothly. Cleaned everything upand fitted new pads with shims and plastic packing piece. went to mount the caliper and it will not go over the disc, the new pad material is too thick. Ended up leaving the shim and packing piece out, will put it back in, in a week or two.

Re-bled the brakes, over a litre of fluid and got something like a lever on the fron but still cant get a good rear lever. Any suggestions ?

Using a specific bike bleeding kit with a non return valve, no air coming out.

Now the parking brake, once again pad pins seized in, this time two of them. Tried using electric impact gun, nothing budged, one of the bolts starting to round. Heated them both up and one came out using the electric gun, the other would still not budge. Ended up cutting a slot and heating it up again then chasing the slot, finally it started to move. Guess the pads must have been stuck on the pinds and that was what was causing the binding rear.

Tip for any uk riders , take the caliper off and remove clean and grease the pins. That way your annual test will have one less thing to fail on.

Guess what must have happened is that this caliper had never been removed since being built. Normally my spanners would have been laid on this many times in 12 months but was so worried about bolts breaking like on yamahas in the past.
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dalehazelton
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
dalehazelton


Number of posts : 80
Location : Hudson Valley NY
Points : 2600
Registration date : 2015-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 20, 2015 7:34 am

Is your avatar picture how your bike is stored - outside with a cover? That would explain a lot of the brake seizure issues. Or even if you ride in a lot of damp/mist/rain. Pain in the butt but not insurmountable stuff to fix.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger


Number of posts : 179
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 3075
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 20, 2015 1:00 pm

yes, during use she lives outside at work, this is scotland and the saying goes ' if you dont like the weather, wait 10 minutes it'll change' or 'if you cant see the trees its raining, if you can see the trees then its not raining yet' the siezing up has been fixed, dont have a problem with that, its getting the brake levers back thats the problem.

have currently got both levers tied back to the twistgrip and will leave overnight to see if any air can work its way up the line. An old trick that has worked in the past, combined brakes apparently are now for being impossible to bleed in a normal method. Often requiring multiple litres of fluid, i've done over a litre already and have heard of a blackbird that took 7 litres!
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger


Number of posts : 179
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 3075
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 20, 2015 1:55 pm

just thinking, why do we put up with manufacturers that design thinkgs that will seize up if they get wet. In addition to the gold wing i have 2 renault meganes, one a 2012 and one a 2008. Electrically they are a nightmare, mechanically they are average, 1 full set of discs and one caliper that had seized, however that is in 60k miles run all year round, neither wing goes out in snow and ice.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3190
Age : 83
Points : 8456
Registration date : 2009-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 20, 2015 3:03 pm

Japanese scooters/disk brakes do not work well in winter salted roads.

Taking things apart before it needs, such as brake pins, lubing them, keeps things working in my experience with several Maxi-scooters and motorcycles over the years.

Water Hose after salty road run, gets crud out/off vital working parts, too.
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HORNBLOWER
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 171
Age : 67
Location : Birmingham UK
Points : 3397
Registration date : 2013-10-08

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 20, 2015 6:19 pm

phils a winger wrote:
yes, during use she lives outside at work, this is scotland and the saying goes ' if you dont like the weather, wait 10 minutes it'll change' or 'if you cant see the trees its raining, if you can see the trees then  its not raining yet' the siezing up has been fixed, dont have a problem with that, its getting the brake levers back thats the problem.

have currently got both levers tied back to the twistgrip and will leave overnight to see if any air can work its way up the line. An old trick that has worked in the past, combined brakes apparently are now for being impossible to bleed in a normal method. Often requiring multiple litres of fluid, i've done over a litre already and have heard of a blackbird that took 7 litres!

Ive got a Blackbird and when I rebuilt the WHOLE system new lines pistons and seals I used just over half a litre. Ive just stripped my rear Silverwing calliper and had no problem. I clamped the brake line took the calliper off stripped and rebuilt it then refilled the master cylinder reservoir put a little pressure on it and released the clamp. I have an old electric percussion drill that I took the drive off but left the percussion part working and I use it to press against the calliper it vibrates quite strongly and I find this helps to get all the bubbles together as I bleed the thing. It also helps with the scooter on the side stand so the bubbles can rise to where the drilling to the bleed screw is in the calliper chamber.
If you still have problems pump the fluid in slowly from the calliper up to the reservoir with a large syringe.
Personally I don't understand why anybody has problems with bleeding any brake system if you follow the manual, perhaps I have just been very lucky.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 79
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 7526
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21, 2015 12:47 am

A vacuum bleeder like a Mighty Vac will make bleeding go easier. Harbor Freight in the US sells a vacuum bleeder that also works well. Pulling the fluid into the system admits less air than pushing.

If the Silverwing master cylinder is like the Goldwing's, and I think they are the same, there's a very small port between the master reservoir and the master cylinder bore. It looks like a dead ended hole from the reservoir end. There is a very small hole in the bottom of that that opens a passage between the middle of the cylinder bore and the reservoir. If that is plugged it is nearly impossible to bleed the system. I've had to overhaul several master cylinders in my old Goldwing shop. Any water or crud accumulating in the system tends to corrode the tiny passage. I usually poke them out with a whisker from a wire brush held in a vise grip. Don't enlarge the hole or the master will be useless.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger


Number of posts : 179
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 3075
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21, 2015 2:21 pm

Backbleeding was something i was thinking of, i remember doing my gl1100 master cylinder with the blocked hole, only had to do it once in 10 years! Dont fancy a repeat. The old trick with cable ties seems to have done some good, front brake is as good as its ever been, back brake is better and theres a couple of cable ties on overnight as it goes in for a retest at 9.30 in the morning. The blackbird story came from my mot tester, could be why he didnt offer to fix the problem, if it fails in the morning theni may have to leave it with him when i go on holiday. What is the normal lever travel on the rear brake bearing in mind the 2 micro switches ?
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 79
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 7526
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: testing times   testing times I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 21, 2015 7:55 pm

Both levers should be about the same when all the air is out. Take a good look at your lever pivots. I've seen some that had pretty worn bushings. With a bit of slop the microswitches sometimes don't work right. Very common on Goldwings especially the cruise control switch.
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