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 Seat latch jammed

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SuperSergio
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PostSubject: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2014 2:13 pm

PLEASE HELP

I tried opening my seat today and found that the front latch is stuck. I have the left side panel off and am able to pull on the cable. When doing so the rear latch releases. No amount of thumping, pounding or cajoling will free the front latch. The rear latch opens, but the front one won't budge.

When I moved the scoot I discovered that a spring (about 2inches long) had fallen out. I assume that is the issue with the front latch.

So how do I get the front latch to release?

Thanks

Tim
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bigbird
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2014 2:42 pm

Hi Tim. Sorry to hear of your dilemma.If you look at p. 2-10 of the service manual you'll see a diagram of the 2 seat lock cables. They are hinged together with the spring that you mentioned. If you can locate that second cable, which I assume has fallen loose below the seat lock mechanism, you should be able to fish that front cable up, and then pull on it with a long needle nose to release the front latch. You may have to even look up from below to find that disconnected front cable.
Good luck.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2014 4:20 pm

Hi Tim,

Just a thought...Have someone (with some weight) sit on the seat and while they are on it, pull on the cable and keep pulling, have them get off the seat and pull it open. This might work.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2014 5:34 pm

I don't know if it is normal or if I just have weird luck but both my 07 and 08 Silverwings only the rear seat latch latches. I have heard others say the same. I just wonder if it's common or not.  
 frustrated  I apologize for hijacking this thread.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 15, 2014 11:21 pm

So far, along with the left side panel , I've been able to also remove the tail and rear panel and remove the rear latch assy. The main cable from the lock acts directly on the rear latch. The front latch cable is also connected to the rear latch lever so the two cables act together. I've been able to pull on the front cable but still no luck releasing the front latch. The cable is attached to the front latch lever too.
Unless someone comes up with a brain storm it looks as if I'm going to have to figure out how to cut thru the front "U" catch that is bolted to the seat. The 10mm nuts that attach the "U" to the seat are recessed just enough so that a wrench wont fit on the nuts. It also appears that that "U" piece is a hardened. The only access I have is from the left side. And, wouldn't you know it, but that piece is too far in from the side to get to it with a hacksaw blade.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Stay tuned for more breaking news...

Tim
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 16, 2014 5:44 pm

Well, as fate would have it, I was unable to free the jammed latch and had to cut the "U" catch.

I got a 12" metal cutting reciprocating saw blade and a handle from Home Depot and spent the better part of an hour and a half cutting the two legs of the catch. Even with a piece of 2X4 wedging the seat "open' the area was so tight and restrictive that I was limited to tiny strokes of the blade but eventually cut thru and freed the seat.

Then spent the next couple of hours reassembling all the panels & stuff I had removed.

Sheesh, what a PITA job. All because of one spring. As Terry mentioned that spring connects two opposing latch 'hooks' which open in opposite directions making it virtually impossible to pick or jimmy open. And, of course, that cut "U" catch is only replaceable after you take the seat cover and seat foam off. Gimme a break...
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moto2009
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2020 3:36 pm

Hi I am writing from Mexico. I have SW 2009 with 5,000 miles that I bought used, 6 years ago. Until 1 week ago no problems were faced on the use or maintenance. But now I am facing the problem with the front latch blocked. I have tried the additional force above the location of the front latch and tried to open at same time with no positive results.
I also took of the tail and found the cables that are supposed to open both of the latches, and pulled them trying to open the front latch. Again the results were negative. One of these cables is too loosen, so I assume that the spring described on the post by Cosmic_Jumper is not in place, and possibly this is the same issue that he had on June 2014.
I wish somebody could confirm if the actions taken by Cosmic_Jumper “cutting the two legs of the catch” is the only way available to open the seat.
I will appreciate your input.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 12, 2020 4:32 pm

Sorry to hear of your predicament. While I can’t state with certainty that it is the only way to free that jammed latch, it is what I had to resort too.

That said, perhaps if you could wedge the left side of the seat pan up enough to remove the two left side panel screws with a right angle phillips head screwdriver, then remove the remaining hardware and panel itself, you might be able to figure out a way to access that latch mechanism from the side.

It certainly isn’t worth destroying that left panel though.

I feel your pain. Please let us know how you get on with this.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 8:05 am

I have had trouble with the front catch before, but usually because my jacket or something got caught in it DOH. Very embarrassing for sure. Anyway not sure this will help but I found on mine if I release the catch (rear) with the key then put a bunch of pressure on the front catch from above it will release. Strange design for certain. Lubing the catches seems to help for a while. Good luck.
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bikehiker
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 10:32 am

I had a similar issue that happened about twice. Could not get the front latch to release. What caused the problem, I found, was each time this happened, I stuffed a helmet and jacket under the seat and had to exert pressure on the seat to close and lock it. When I unlocked the seat, the back latch gave way, but the front held tight. After forcing the issue and jiggling and pulling up on the seat forcefully, I was able to somehow pop open the seat from the front latch.

I don't have a solution, but I found to avoid the situation, I will NEVER force-close the seat. If something doesn't fit, I carry a small string backpack stored in a front glove compartment for any overload. Or I install my soft saddle bags.

Maybe some of you more mechanically inclined can reason why force-closing has some effect on a spring or something.

Hard to think why two latches are necessary. It's not a car hood that needs two latches for safety, unless some of us ride our Swings backwards at high speeds while standing on the floorboards.
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Loosemarbles
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Tim, what a nightmare! It's never occurred to me that a latch might fail. I did examine my front (and rear) latch quite recently and both seem rather robust, lots of grease on them both. I'm gonna keep an eye on that spring in future.

I suppose the reason for two latches is because of the length of the seat and the need to keep it secure when riding with pillion.

I hope you can get it fixed up pronto....
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 4:13 pm

I started getting problems with the front seat latch after replacing the strut for the seat. Now, I have to force close the seat. I have to press down on the front backrest while pushing the rear of the seat to the right side to get the seat opened. It seems that the strut pressure is too much causing the seat to twist and effects the front latch.
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moto2009
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 14, 2020 12:44 pm

Well, thank you all for your comments and support. The good news is that 5 minutes ago, I was able to open the front latch, Smile .
The case was exactly the same that Cosmic_Jumper described years ago ( the spring was missing). I was able to remove the left side panel, following the Cosmic_Jumper procedure (with a 90 degrees screwdriver). It was not easy but is possible.
At the end I could see the latch from the open space, and was able to move it using a telescopic magnet. Was easy to move since the spring was not there. That was all.
I wish to add that the only way to solve this, if this happens (after all the tests and shared experiences) is removing the left side panel and move the latch from there. I also tried to access the latch from below the motorcycle, but that was not possible (there is no straight line from the hole on front of the rear tire and the latch position).
Again thank you all and I hope this new experience can be useful for this community.
Saludos from Mexico.
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Sepp
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 3:27 pm

my front latch does not even work, it is the always open position.
After reading this I will permanently disable it and replace it with something sturdy what holds the seat better in place.
Just one catch for the seat should be enough as it is on most scooters.
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sonuvabug
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 8:49 am

Sepp wrote:
my front latch does not even work, it is the always open position.
After reading this I will permanently disable it and replace it with something sturdy what holds the seat better in place.
Just one catch for the seat should be enough as it is on most scooters.

Just adding a comment here ... if you disable the front latch, you should be able to perform the Burgman 400 modification ... that is to and add a "secret" release loop to the rear latch mechanism and have it available for either emergency use or even as an everyday seat unlatching device (if you don't want to use your key).
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oldwingguy
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 9:36 am

Easyrider wrote:
I started getting problems with the front seat latch after replacing the strut for the seat. Now, I have to force close the seat. I have to press down on the front backrest  while pushing the rear of the seat to the right side to get the seat opened. It seems that the strut pressure is too much causing the seat to twist and effects the front latch.

I replaced mine with one that was suggested on the forum and it REALLY lifts. With the above mentioned problems I took my hand held eye's and looked closer, hmm the rear latch mechanism shows noticeably more striking wear (missing lube) than the front but the same pattern on the front, both on the right side. The front is way dirtier than the back both show lube still present. A clean up and lube to be done on both.
Depending on your risk level one can use a spare key and chrome plated radio knob and just leave it in the key slot.
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 12:59 pm

I have had the exact same spring problem, and after taking apart everything just like Cosmic Jumper i was about to cut the u latch but even at that desperate point it was a very dificult task since the space is very limited, what i did was insert a very long screwdriver from the right side and pushed the mechanism to unlock. I was able to see the rear Lock mechanism from inside to understand were i have to push for unleash. After that i just completely removed the front latch.
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Sepp
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 5:46 pm

some things on the Honda are over designed and you just need to bring common sense back and add a mod.
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oldwingguy
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 17, 2020 8:03 am

For all those that had the problem, any forewarning? key getting harder to turn for instance? any thing else or good one time locked out the next?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 17, 2020 8:56 am

Unless you can figure out a way to reengineer the latch assembly, it’s not worth worrying about. Of the hundreds of thousands of FSC/FJS models out there, only a tiny handful have reported a problem with that front latch.

SuperSergio and moto2009 have discovered good approaches to freeing that stuck latch.


We all benefit from shared information.
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Modernman1953
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2020 1:26 pm

I just removed the front catch assembly off of the seat when I first read about this problem years ago as prevention and I have never had a problem operating the bike with just the rear latch.
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oldwingguy
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Unless you can figure out a way to reengineer the latch assembly, it’s not worth worrying about. Of the hundreds of thousands of FSC/FJS models out there, only a tiny handful have reported a problem with that front latch.

SuperSergio and moto2009 have discovered good approaches to freeing that stuck latch.


We all benefit from shared information.


No pun no fun but really wondering what leads up to the failure?
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SuperSergio
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 20, 2020 4:37 am

I could blame the aged lubrication of the front mechanism getting very stiff at cold temperature
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 20, 2020 5:54 am

Good point, Sergio. Aged, sticky lubrication similar to what causes sticky turn signal switch and pust-to-start / headlight switch switch issues.
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johnd
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10, 2020 11:29 am

Once again, great information people and very much appreciated.
MY 08 with 49,000 miles started doing this as well, just after replacing the strut.
Hard to push down straight, in order to align the rear lock and bang on the front in order to unlock.
Going to try the easy way out and spray the hell out of the front lock with some slip and slide spray first.
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johnd
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10, 2020 4:59 pm

SUCCESS! My slip and slide spray trick worked.
I removed the strut and the plastic cover so as to get better access to the front lock. ( the slip and slide spray is what we in the mechanic business called any lubricating spray) I cleaned off what I could and with the small tube attached, to the can, gave it a good dose. After again cleaning off what I could, used anti seeze on all contact points.
Now the front lock works (still need to pound on it to open )
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 06, 2021 4:44 am

I love this forum.
Twice my front latch has "jammed" - both times was when I had put 2 full face helmets under the seat and had to slightly force the seat closed. I'll fully remember the trick of thumping (or getting the wife to sit) on the front of the seat to release the catch next time - unless I get really bored and remove the whole front catch assembly. Many thanks.
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johnd
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 22, 2021 2:19 pm

Not sure exactly where to input my thoughts on the seat jam but wanted to let everyone know there is a helmet holder under the seat on the left side forward next to the area where our reg, and insurance along with the small owners manual would go.
I made an extension out of some hard plastic the same size used in the golding that looks like a T that over the years worked fantastically.
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Loosemarbles
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Well, that's bizarre!

Today, I almost shut the seat down with my jacket in the bucket space, my keys were in my jacket pocket...yikes!

I only ever locked myself out once before and had to open the seat the 'magical' way.

johnd's idea is worth considering Question
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sonuvabug
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23, 2021 10:38 am

johnd wrote:
Not sure exactly where to input my thoughts on the seat jam but wanted to let everyone know there is a helmet holder under the seat on the left side forward next to the area where our reg, and insurance along with the small owners manual would go.
I made an extension out of some hard plastic the same size used in the golding that looks like a T that over the years worked fantastically.

The helmet hook works great with "D-ring" helmet chin straps. Not the micro-ratchet chin straps found on many newer helmets.

I also noticed some helmet manufacturers are offering new, replacement chin straps for sale ... particularly of the plastic micro-ratchet variety.

That makes it easier for a thief simply to cut any externally accessible chin strap, remove the helmet and simply order a new chin strap as a replacement.

If you can, best to lock your helmet inside your cargo bay or in a secure top case away from prying eyes and temptation.
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johnd
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Seat latch jammed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seat latch jammed   Seat latch jammed I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23, 2021 4:33 pm

Absolutely correct. I never thought about that when I used to use the hook. I live in a safe area and things like that don't happen very often, that I know of
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