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 Reflex variator mods

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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
rjdoles

Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3417
Registration date : 2012-09-24

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PostSubject: Reflex variator mods   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 24, 2013 7:44 pm

My wife has an 05 Reflex (nss250). It is a nice scooter but the midrange acceleration leaves a lot to be desired. This is the only scooter that Honda used two different ramp lengths in the variator drive face. I think it was an attempt to force the engine to short shift to a taller gear to improve fuel economy. Her Reflex was due for a drive belt so I researched what I could do about the dead spot while I had the variator apart to replace that belt.

The stock Reflex variator setup is 21 gram rollers in the three short ramps and 31 gram rollers in the three longer ramps. The total weight of the six rollers is 156 grams.

K-mod:
A popular mod for the Reflex is to just remove the three 21 gram rollers. It is cheap and makes a big difference in acceleration. The problem is that removing 63 gram of weight is huge. The engine rpm's are pretty high 6500 - 7500 when cruising at less than about 50 mph.

Variator mod:
I saw on a blog that the Honda Big Ruckus (ps250) has the same engine as the Reflex. It's variator has six 26 gram weights and all six ramps are the same length. The total weight of the rollers is also 156 grams.

I ordered the drive face from the Big Ruckus for $43 and 26 gram Dr. Pulley sliders. Between those two changes the performance is much better.

Full throttle standing start before the mods:
The engine would wind up to 4000 rpm at about 25 mph. The rpm would stay near 4000 rpm from 25 to 45 mph as the variator shifted up to the highest gear. From 45 mph up the variator was in top gear and the engine rpm would again increase with mph.

Full throttle standing start after the mods:
Starting gear ratio seems to be a little lower than with the stock variator which improves off-the-line performance a bit. The engine would wind up to 5500 rpm at about 30 mph and then the rpm would stay at about 5500 rpm as the speed increased from 30 to about 50 mph. At 50 mph, the variator had shifted up to the highest gear. From 50 mph on up, the engine rpm would again increase with mph. The dead spot from 25 to 45 was gone.

Mileage is still about 65 mpg so that didn't seem to change. It is not a Silverwing but it is more fun to drive now.
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JeffR_
Site Admin
JeffR_

Number of posts : 1103
Age : 62
Location : Bay Area, Ca
Points : 7866
Registration date : 2010-05-12

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PostSubject: Re: Reflex variator mods   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25, 2013 1:13 am

I had the Reflex too and liked it alot. It is too bad they just didn't put a 300 cc engine in it instead of getting rid of the Reflex. Do they make the Givi Air flow screen for it? It might be better aerodynamics and improve it a bit more too. I put the Givi on mine and it was about as high as my head and it took away a lot of top end speed.

I hear a few people tried to convert the engine to a 300cc with this certain kit but it didn't do much, and they had to mess with the engine a lot. I myself never did the K-mod but I did hear it helped acceleration on it.
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
rjdoles

Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3417
Registration date : 2012-09-24

Reflex variator mods Empty
PostSubject: Uprading the Reflex   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25, 2013 8:26 am

Hey Jeff

The Reflex was the NSS250 and the 300 cc Forza that was released for the U.S. is the NSS300 so Honda took your advice. I don't know how much of this scooter is warmed over Reflex and how much of it is new. It does have a 4 valve head instead of the 2 valve head of the Reflex and it is fuel injected. It is supposed to produce about 6 more HP than the Reflex (24 hp instead of 18). My wife's Reflex has a top speed of around 80 mph. The reviewers claim that the Forza has a  top speed of 90 mph. That's a nice safety factor for us. We occasionally have to ride on posted 70 mph Ohio freeway's where the actual traffic speed is closer to about 80 mph.

This new mid-range scoot might be just what the doctor ordered. The Honda website lists the selling price for $5600 base and $500 more with ABS. Honda might have a winner on their hands.
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sonuvabug
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
sonuvabug

Number of posts : 612
Location : Mid-Western Ontario Canada
Points : 4654
Registration date : 2010-09-15

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PostSubject: Re: Reflex variator mods   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25, 2013 2:26 pm

rjdoles wrote:
... snipped ... My wife's Reflex ...
If you aren't already, you may wish to consider joining the Yahoo Forums Reflex group. It is moderated by a fella named bruce koehler (pioneered the K-Mod ... K for Koehler).

It's a very good site with lots of helpful people and information. We used to have a 2005 Reflex with ABS and it is still one of our favourite scoots. ~ Bugjr ~
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
rjdoles

Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3417
Registration date : 2012-09-24

Reflex variator mods Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reflex variator mods   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25, 2013 3:33 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
rjdoles wrote:
... snipped ... My wife's Reflex ...
If you aren't already, you may wish to consider joining the Yahoo Forums Reflex group.  It is moderated by a fella named bruce koehler (pioneered the K-Mod ... K for Koehler).

It's a very good site with lots of helpful people and information.  We used to have a 2005 Reflex with ABS and it is still one of our favourite scoots. ~ Bugjr ~  
I registered for that Yahoo site several years ago but the format drove me crazy. I never knew where I was at and it was like there were circular links that kept bringing me back to the same threads that I had already viewed and read.

The format of this site is so much better.

It is a shame because as you said, there is a lot of information on the Reflex available.
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sonuvabug
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
sonuvabug

Number of posts : 612
Location : Mid-Western Ontario Canada
Points : 4654
Registration date : 2010-09-15

Reflex variator mods Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reflex variator mods   Reflex variator mods I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 25, 2013 4:34 pm

rjdoles wrote:
I registered for that Yahoo site several years ago but the format drove me crazy.
I know exactly what you mean.  It was a test of one's patience!
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