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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 6:14 am

What is different about the USA model so that it requires a different holder when removing the driven pulley to change the belt ? The US tool in the manual (07AMB-MCTA100) looks a lot simpler to make than the universal type and would appear easier to carry around if you are that way inclined. Does anyone have the dimensions of the Merrycan version ?
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eddy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 9:47 am

Bikerboy,

To change the belt you don't remove the driven pulley.

Only the drive pulley is needed.(left hand)

Can you show a picture of the tool you are talking about?

The (hold) tool for taking off the drive pulley has a Y shape.
Easy to make yourself.


Eddy
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 11:03 am

Here is a YouTube video describing a simple DIY variator holding tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAimvORFI
It is not necessary to use metric bolts in this tool because the long variator-holding bolts do not screw into the variator. You can use 1/4 inch hardware if that is convenient. Just be sure that those bolts are long enough.

The Honda "Universal" holding tool has short stubs which go into the variator holes and you'll need a 3rd hand to hold the tool onto the variator. Otherwise you run the risk of the tool slipping and breaking out the variator holes.

The other Honda tool you ask about is probably the new(er) style which is nothing more than a flat bar about 2.5 inches wide and ~8 inches long with two pins spaced 100mm apart and a ~1.25 inch hole centered between those pins. The pins fit in the variator holes; the variator bolt is removed thru the center hole, and a 3rd hole is placed somewhere in the opposite end so that the tool can be screwed to the belt case when used.

As Eddy mentions, the DIY "Y" shaped tool is easiest to use. And adapts to other size variators as well.

Tim
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 11:24 am

The Honda tool pictured in the manual shows a flat bar as you describe, I just thought that it looked simpler to reproduce. It still shows the universal tool for Europe which is why I raised the query.
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 12:04 pm

I went with a piece of wood and a couple of bolts - seemed easiest to make and it is very easy to use. The actual construction is described here: http://www.leroybeal.net/motorcycles/silverwing/articles/drivepulleytool/drivepulleytool.html

I used a 1x4 piece of wood and set the holes back a bit from the end - as my first one split (this woud not happen with plywood but I did not have any picees of plywood handy nor did I want to bother with cutting it).

So far I have removed the drive pulley about 6 times without any problems.

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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 12:40 pm

I think it was JeffR, that showed a Holding tool made from a peice of wood. I copied his measurements and made a holding tool out of a scrap peice of wood and two spare bolts i had, it works fine. I think Bigbird showed one made of metal that also works fine. Smile
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 5:48 pm

Just changed my belt.

I tried to go with the "making a tool" approach. It didn't work out very well. So I fell back on Plan B, which was a DeWalt impact wrench and a 17mm impact socket. That worked a treat.

In order to get the drive pulley back on, it was necessary to squeeze the belt into the driven pulley, separating the sheaves somewhat. It took a fair bit of hand strength.

Then I had to crank the bolt down a bit, turn on the engine for a second to get the belt out of the pinch, crank it down a bit more, etc, repeat until the bolt is fully tightened.

Did I miss something that would have made it easier?



Last edited by Scoundrel on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 22, 2013 6:45 pm

[quote="Scoundrel"]I tried to go with the "making a tool" approach. It didn't work out very well.So I fell back on Plan B, which was a DeWalt impact wrench and a 17mm impact socket. That worked a treat.

In order to get the drive pulley back on, it was necessary to squeeze the belt into the driven pulley, separating the sheaves somewhat. It took a fair bit of hand strength.

Then I had to crank the bolt down a bit, turn on the engine for a second to get the belt out of the pinch, crank it down a bit more, etc, repeat until the bolt is fully tightened.

Did I miss something that would have made it easier? [quote]

It looks as if the bolts are too long. The proper bolt length would be just long enough so that they fit all the way into the variator holes and the nuts are just touching the variator. Too short and they may slip and break out the variator holes; too long and it may encourage them to bend --as you've experienced.

Please use a torque wrench to tighten the variator bolt. I am just distrustful of impact tools to deliver a proper torque.

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eddy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 am

About tightening the central bolt of the drive pulley.

Pull the belt good towards the center of the driven pulley.
(But maybe the Americans have less power in the hands, compared with Europeans, i don't know)
Then the belt is free from the center of the drive pulley.
So you can easy tight the bolt, without squeeze the belt.


About the hold tool.

Your where trying to make it very simple..but wrong.
The bolts are to long ...and bent.

The Y shape is the way to go.

With a impact air gun you don't need a hold tool.
I carry alway's a spare belt and a Y hold tool i made.

Eddy
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 23, 2013 11:21 am

Scoundrel wrote:

Did I miss something that would have made it easier?
Special Tools Download

If I had an impact wrench - it is clearly the easiest way to go - then I would not need that 'special tool'. Mine is a 1"x4" (actual 3/4"x3.5") board 32" long with hole 1" diamter hole 9" from end (to keep the board from splitting) with bolts that extend 1/2" above the surface of the bolt. The actual construction is desribed elsewhere - I just copied it - and it works great. For me, it seemed easier than building the Y type - based on my limited skills with metal. I don't see any 'hole' in the metal tube through which to insert a socket - I suspect that you used a socket BETWEEN the nut and the BAR - which is why your bolts had to be soooo long - and which is why they bent. Your special tool ilustration may SCARE AWAY OTHERS from making this tool - when it actually is a very functional tool when built in accordance with directions (provided elsewhere). It is best that the tool be no more that 3/4" thick so that you don't need an extender as you need to apply a bit of force to get it loose - I use a 25" breaker bar and it works fine.

Take it with you? Not this wooden one - and even if I had the Y metal one it would stay in the garage. IMHO if my DRIVE/DRIVEN system fails on the road I am going to have it towed to a shop - and most every shop has an impact wrench - I have limited on-board SWing storage. If I was going on a very long trip - I would maybe consider taking a belt; however, I suspect that a tire failure is much much more likely than a belt failure - but realistically I can't take 2 tires and a belt along with the stuff I REALLY want to take. Tires on the SWing are just as hard to get as a belt or for that matter nearly any other part on the SWing. Anywhere in the USA (when 8 hours from home), I figure parts are 1 to 2 days away (maybe 3 in some spots).

To get the belt on I get things started, make a few turns, ensure thing are aligned correctly, then stick a piece of wood into the best area and pry the belts apart - tighten the bolt - pry some more - tighten some moe, etc.





Special Tools Tool110

Special Tools Tool210
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2013 6:18 am

I've just checked my parts sources in the UK and they say that the US tool is discontinued, only the universal one is available. Having seen the price I will being getting to work making one according to the excellent info. on this forum !
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stanly
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2013 2:38 pm

Scoundrel - where's the big hole on the middle for the socket?

I think I can make a 4" x 24" plywood strip with 3 holes in it and prob even find space to pack it along if feeling nervous about the belt (damn that V-light).

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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2013 10:51 pm

bikerboy wrote:
I've just checked my parts sources in the UK and they say that the US tool is discontinued, only the universal one is available. Having seen the price I will being getting to work making one according to the excellent info. on this forum !

I have the US tool ... it is very portable.

When I get a chance I can take a picture and measurements.
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 6:24 pm

stanly wrote:
Scoundrel - where's the big hole on the middle for the socket?

Yeah, that's where I messed up. I'll be making a Ver. 2 soon.

I'm helping a friend look at a used SW this evening. It has 15K miles, so if we buy it we're going to change the belt straight away. So I'll need the tool again.
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Scoundrel
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 6:26 pm

Dimond wrote:
Your special tool ilustration may SCARE AWAY OTHERS from making this tool - when it actually is a very functional tool when built in accordance with directions (provided elsewhere).

If you're really concerned that my flubbed 1st attempt will scare people away from making their own, I'll edit out the image from my 1st reply, and you can edit it out of yours. (shrug)
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 8:00 pm

Scoundrel wrote:

If you're really concerned that my flubbed 1st attempt will scare people away from making their own, I'll edit out the image from my 1st reply, and you can edit it out of yours. (shrug)

I am pretty sure that I would hold the 'flub' record IF I posted them all - which I do not. I applaud your willingness to share - the good and the bad - so that we can all learn - which is what this forum is all about - so thanks to you and by all means do not ever alter your posts on my account. Ride Safe!
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 25, 2013 8:57 pm

Scoundrel, by sharing your flubbed 1st attempt you may save someone from making the same mistake. There was no need to remove your picture. If someone reads this post they will find out the right way to make the tool. Also they will see how not to make the same mistake you did. If we don't make mistakes it usually means we don't try to do things ourselves. So you see it's all good. Smile Please do not stop sharing the good or the bad. Thank you for any information you find good and bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04, 2013 8:39 am

bikerboy wrote:
What is different about the USA model so that it requires a different holder when removing the driven  pulley to change the belt ?

The difference is the method of use Wink part way down the list of a google search of the part number I got a forum result .......

The other Honda pulley holder (only available in the USA) is 07AMB-MCTA100. This is the pulley holder that screws into the holes from the removed aluminum housing and has two other screws to fit into the variator holes with a large hole for the socket to remove the variator nut. wrote:

Taken from ....... honda_silver third post here ....... https://www.silverwing600.com/t3550-variator-tool
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04, 2013 8:44 am

honda_silver wrote:


I have the US tool ... it is very portable.

When I get a chance I can take a picture and measurements.


Cool that would be nice winter project Smile 
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04, 2013 2:30 pm

I made a tool kike the one "Cosmic Jumper" referred to in the video. It is seventeen and a half inches long made out of 1/4 strap iron. I used bolts that are not threaded so they do not bend easy. It works very well because it is long enough it stops against the floor so it will not turn. Of course the Swing is on the center stand when I do this. I have changed belts 3 times and it is an easy task with the tool holding it so you can properly torque it etc.
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04, 2013 2:35 pm

Regarding the tool I made it is 1/4 x 3/4 strap I used. I did put a pair of bicycle handle bar grips on the end to dress it up and make it look nice. I would post a picture but can't seem to get that done. Anyway it is easy to make!
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 04, 2013 7:44 pm

I made up a variator tool from some scrap I had on hand. It was a piece of 3/4"x1/4"x48" piece of aluminum strap. I just cut the thing in half, bolted both ends together on one end and put a 1/4" or 5/16" (I forgot which) 1 1/2" bolt in the other end of both pieces. Instead of the 'Y' shape this one was a 'V' shaped tool. It was long enough to reach the floor with the bike on its center stand so there was no need to hold the tool when using it, just stick the two bolts into the variator face with the V's pointed end facing forward when undoing the bolt and turn it to face rearward when retorquing.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 11, 2013 3:39 pm

Ere yer go bikerboy,the merrycan version .....


Special Tools DSCF0080_zps022b3cdd


Component parts .........


Special Tools DSCF0086_zps56e9686e


The commercial version is supplied with two long M6 bolts,I did not have them but I do have a lathe so machined standoffs with male & female threads,the bolts that hold the plate in position are the Allan screws form the second plastic cover.


HTH
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 5:11 am

With cross knurled standoffs,plates lightened,blended corners,cleaned up & "blued",the finished article .........



Special Tools DSCF0089_zps1df89621
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 7:30 am

Nice, I bet you could sell a few of them.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 8:44 am

Oh jeez, I just hate guys with machine shop access.
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Magoo Silver
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 9:15 am

I would love to have a machine shop.... That is some nice tool, but nothing is as nice as an impact wrench for $40 at Harbor Fright.

Magoo
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 9:44 am

RArch wrote:
Nice, I bet you could sell a few of them.

Cheers bud Smile I do like "playing" with my machine tools,there is something very satisfying about making curly metal.
I didn't really make it with the intention of selling,but if a few members want one then I will make a drilling jig & get some steel in

Thinking on,I might see how this works in ally then if peeps are touring it would be light enough to have under the seat with a spare belt "just in case"


Last edited by The Bern on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 9:51 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Oh jeez, I just hate guys with machine shop access.

Not really a machine shop bud,just my garage/workshop at home,fortunately it is a double garage that VERY rarely has a car inside it,so plenty of room for a centre lathe & drill press plus the normal "stuff" Smile 
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trouble1100
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 10:10 am

No fuss variator tool, rest the padded handle on the bottom of the clutch spring to loosen the nut and the top of the clutch spring to tighten and torque.

Special Tools Attachment
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 2:42 pm

The tool I made looks much like the one above. I just added a bicycle grip to make it look finished.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 6:24 pm

The Bern, if you decide to market them sign me up for one. That is a work of art. I often go on two to five hundred mile rides. I buy a new belt right after replacing my old one so I don't have to order and wait for one when I or a friend needs one. When I go on long trips I do bring my spare new belt so the tool would be nice. I did make the butrest to backrest brackets for myself and three others I ride with, but all I needed was drill press, 3/16" X 1" stock, vice, drill bit and a tap. All of which I had on hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 13, 2013 4:15 am

Will do Roger Smile the weight reduction is a hangup of mine from days gone by when we built "cafe racers" & shed every bit of weight possible Wink I will let you know how I get on with an aluminum version as that would most likely be the best for under the seat storage & air mail
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 13, 2013 3:41 pm

Cool thank you.Smile
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ValMSK
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 21, 2013 2:06 pm

Hello, and what do you guys use to disassemble torque drive? Just bought malossi spring and thinking about changing it myself. Honda special tool is too expensive for that simple thing.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 21, 2013 5:11 pm

ValMSK wrote:
Hello, and what do you guys use to disassemble torque drive? Just bought malossi spring and thinking about changing it myself. Honda special tool is too expensive for that simple thing.

Correction from earlier post:

Here's a link to a DIY Driven Pulley/Clutch Torque spring tool:

http://nyarome92.fc2web.com/kasutamu2/yamikojou/kuratti_konpu/kuratti_konpu.htm

It's from a Japanese site, so you'll have to work from the photos.

Tim
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22, 2013 4:55 am

Very interesting but I hope not to need one. Anyway I can't make the photos correspond to the drawing !!
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ValMSK
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22, 2013 6:08 am

Cosmic_Jumper, Thank you! I'll try to make it.
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 22, 2013 1:41 pm

bikerboy wrote:
Very interesting but I hope not to need one.  Anyway I can't make the photos correspond to the drawing !!

The Drawing is an illustration taken from the official Honda tool.

The next 4 photos show the steps the guy is taking to fabricate the (approx 85 mm wide) "U" channel piece from scrap.

The next 3 photos show various stages of the tool in disassembly/assembly.

The next photo shows how the "U" channel piece fits to the torque spring retainer.

The final photo shows the tool assembled on the Driven Pulley/Clutch assembly.

Capisce?

Tim

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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 23, 2013 5:39 am

I did capisce, the drawing is not the tool he made !
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LN
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 23, 2013 7:52 pm

You are doing it wrong ! Let me change your life. And you are welcome !

Tool, shcmule ! $25 is what can cost you for a cheap used or otherwise impact tool. Electric or with air ...who cares? Take belt off in 5 seconds flat. Start to finish change belt in less than 10 minutes. It works with both installing and uninstalling that pulley thingy.

I tried "your tool", I made "my tool". Such a waste and ....why would you do that ?
You want to hear about my previous tool ? Go to the hardware store and there are the aluminum pre drilled 1 inch'ish wide, door enforcement something,something. Get two of those. add the appropriate screws and you got yourself a tool. But why ? Get the impact tool. You will be the happiest person. You can use it to take your wheels down, your car tires .... so many things to screw, so little time chickendance 

LN
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2013 5:36 am

But do you know if the impact tool tightens to the correct torque? Great tool for the removal though.

Cheers,
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2013 10:04 am

LN, Only if you were into model railroading ("electric trains" for the Poms)) would you understand!What a Face What a Face What a Face Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil 
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Guest
Guest



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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Impact wrench,rattle gun,whatever you like to call it will deffo undo it no prob's & it will sort of do it up,but unless it is calibrated to the correct torque then you will never be sure exactly how tight (or loose) the bolt/nut actually is.

I have always been & still am a firm believer in the old adage .... A job for a tool & a tool for a job .... that coupled with,I actually enjoy making things in my little workshop.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2013 12:16 pm

No mate, to we  model railways or just plain train sets. Most young lads lose interest in them when they discover the joys of masturbation. Smile 

The other end of spectrum is the sad anoraks you see seemingly welded to the floor of the chain booksellers WH Smith reading 'Model Railway' cover to cover like it was top shelf porn.
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"Hi Yo"
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 24, 2013 12:40 pm

Meldrew wrote:
 

The other end of spectrum is the sad anoraks you see seemingly welded to the floor of the chain booksellers WH Smith reading 'Model Railway' cover to cover like it was top shelf porn.
Laughing at the silly old gits still thinking they are "bikers". All of us look silly to someone, but they are wrong about "us". motorcycle 
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DaveR
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PostSubject: Re: Special Tools   Special Tools I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 26, 2013 11:55 pm

It is alright to use a power tool (air wrench) to loosen the nut but when you put it back on it does need to be torqued to the proper value. Sooooo use a good torque wrench!
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