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acworthpatrick
tinman
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Waspie
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GHM-PM


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PostSubject: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 25, 2012 8:55 pm

People talk about the perception of us "low-lifes" on our scooters and worry about the "real" motorcycle people such as Harley riders.

Today I took a ride to Gila Bend Arizona alone (226 miles) and I pulled into a cafe to grab a bite. A Harley rider in black leather pulled in while I was taking off my gear. We got to talking and one thing led to another and we had lunch together. He said as long as I didn't mind eating with "cycle trash" and I told him if he didn't mind eating with "scooter-trash"! Wink

Sometimes it is just great to share different perspectives!!!

Never be ashamed to be seen on your SWing!!!
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rodenbach
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 3:36 am

I don't know how things work out in the States, but 'over here' there is still a certain kind of Apartheid when it comes to 'scooters'.

I was talking to this guy the other day, and he was interested in the SW. Wanted to know about engine capacity, horsepower, top speed, etc. All went 'fine' until he heard it had an automatic transmission. After that , he decided it was not a 'real' motorcycle... scratch

(I don't care: I've had similar reactions when I was riding my 70's Moto Guzzi Idro Convert, that was an automatic too...)
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 am

I've never understood the people who think scooters aren't "real" motorcycles because you don't have to shift, just like I don't understand the people who think scooters are so great because you don't have to shift.

Shifting gears on a motorcycle isn't difficult and it's not really much of a skill. I don't see it as an advantage or disadvantage at all to me. (The CVT does suck in stop-and-go traffic though.)

I decided to go with a scooter instead of a "real" motorcycle because of the storage. The last time I went on a trip with three friends, I ended up carrying stuff for all three of them, and we still had to stop so one could re-attach some stuff that was falling off of his bungee corded together pile of supplies.

The fact that I could safely and dryly store my laptop under the seat on my commute sealed the deal for me.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 11:49 am

My wife and I had an experience with the myopic 'big bikers' at a place called West Bay, Bridport, (UK).

Bikers used to meet regularly on Sundays in the little harbour. I decided on an impromptu ice cream one Sunday so we jumped on the bike and headed to West Bay. Parked the Burgman in one of the bays available. Whilst we were walking off I noticed the guy parked next to me was now moving his bike!! Strange I thought - but no - it started a trend. I took a seat on a nearby wall and watched all the bikes in the bays near my scooter move away.

What was even stranger I found was all the Suzuki's were together, All the Kwaks's were together like wise with all the makes!!!!!!

Not as if the riders were any different, they all turned away when I walked back to collect my machine to ride off.

I have to say that was the worst I have experienced, I was in the Suzi Owners Club at the time and spun the dit to them and they all thought it weird too!

That said, when I arrived at the motor show in Birmingham, (UK), I was greeted with almost hero status, you rode from where to here? At least you rode was the most frequent comment. Unlike some 'real' bikers getting out of their cages in bike leathers!!!!!!!

As for who rides what - who cares. Two wheels are two wheels. No stigma with cars ref auto vs manual transmission. Why should it be the case with bikes?
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pippobis2
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 11:52 am

GHM-PM wrote:
People talk about the perception of us "low-lifes" on our scooters and worry about the "real" motorcycle people such as Harley riders.

Today I took a ride to Gila Bend Arizona alone (226 miles) and I pulled into a cafe to grab a bite. A Harley rider in black leather pulled in while I was taking off my gear. We got to talking and one thing led to another and we had lunch together. He said as long as I didn't mind eating with "cycle trash" and I told him if he didn't mind eating with "scooter-trash"! Wink

Sometimes it is just great to share different perspectives!!!

Never be ashamed to be seen on your SWing!!!

motorcycle
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SCTLVR
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 186
Location : Fairfield, CA
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 1:02 pm

The following about sums up the difference between real and not somehow real motorbikes.

"I decided to go with a scooter instead of a "real" motorcycle because of the storage. The last time I went on a trip with three friends, I ended up carrying stuff for all three of them, and we still had to stop so one could re-attach some stuff that was falling off of his bungee corded together pile of supplies."

Real motorbikes don't have storage. They are apparently for conveyance only. As real motorcycles role from the production floor they must have add-ons to carry things.

Now, the "step-through" thing...
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rodenbach
Touring Scooter Rider
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rodenbach


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 1:10 pm

Me too, Waspie: I never understood the separations like 'scooters' vs 'motorbikes', or 'japanese' vs 'european', 'harley' vs 'the rest', etc.

My first 'long distance ride' was in january 1973: from Antwerp to Brussels to visit the annual Motor Show. Me on my 49cc Puch and my buddy Eddy (Gbhs) on a Honda SS50. We set off without maps, rode along the Royal Palace (where we stopped to ask directions at the guards) and were nearly frozen our n*uts off, because only dressed in 'casual' clothing (I remember I wore gloves, knitted gloves!!!)

Later that year we made it into France (starting in Antwerp= 100Miles/160kms from the border) with the same mopeds, and everything was done @ a leasurely pace of 'max 25 MPH'. Now thàt is what I call 'cruising' Wink

I found a pic that I suspect to be me in those days on my Candy Orange 2-speed Puch MV50. Besides the gold flaked helmet (brand: 'St-Christophe') no protective gear whatsoever. Those were the days...

Scooter persecution. 344xw5h Scooter persecution. Me_win10

The older the boys, the bigger their toys...
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 1:32 pm

I don't even bother engaging in conversation with bikers who ask stupid or patronising questions about maxi scooters. The Silver Wing has been around a long time and been the subject of of numerous magazine articles and road tests so I'm not doing their homework for them.

You can bet that some of the older newcomers to the Silver Wing and maxi scooters generally wouldn't have considered a maxi a 'real bike' until advancing age or mobility problems made them consider and then buy one.

Then it finally dawns on them that they're fun, practical, and if they'd had more sense they'd have been riding one years ago. Neutral
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 1:49 pm

applause applause Its never to late to see the light Smile
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acworthpatrick
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 1:52 pm

I ride both my Silverwing and a motorcycle and there are major differences in them. Though - my Aprilia Mana is an automatic, but it out performs, out stops, and out handles the Silverwing in every aspect. However I made the decision to keep the silverwing because the motorcycle is brutally uncomfortable after a few hours, offers no storage or weather protection for commuting. Both bikes are very different in there purpose and what they offer.

I love them both but I can see the appeal to wanting one or the other or one of both in my case Smile

Also for the record my research showed that not many (if any) motorcycles can beat the Silverwing in daily upkeep and maintenance costs. I mean I am already sick of lubing and adjusting the chain all the time, more expensive tires and etc..... So again the scooter shines as a day to day commuting vehicle and a road trip / touring bike. But for racing through the mountains I am on the Aprilia all day, or short day trips are fun on it to. My wife and I rode the Silverwing from Atlanta to Lake Placid, NY in July and it was awesome. 2600 miles total in 8 days - which I couldn't imagine doing on the Aprilia.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 2:46 pm

Most "real" bikers ask the same two questions. How fast does it go and how many miles per gallon do you get. I've never had one say anything bad or act like it wasn't a "real" motorcycle. Except a biker friend of mine that said he wouldn't use the "S" word to spare my feelings. I asked him "What 'S' word? Storage?"

That picture is awesome, I love the bicycle handlebars! Does it have a banana seat?

I heard somewhere that the Honda 50cc engine on that SS50 is the most produced internal-combustion engine in the history of mankind. So many so that it's never likely to be eclipsed.
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


Number of posts : 288
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 4:10 pm

I turned up for an IAM (Institute of Advance Motorcyclists) group ride-out on Sunday. The chaps were all very polite and chatty, avoiding subject of the odd looking machine parked next to me - although they all kept shooting sideways glances at me and 'it'. It only had 200 miles on the clock and was very shiny.

In typical IAM fashion the route (3 Vistas - the tops of 3 hills for their nice views) ran through country lanes, wet fallen leaves, horse crap, cow crap, flood water, pot holes, mud, uphill and down dale. Occasionally we travelled a road wide enough to fit a white line down the middle. Oh, the second half of the run was in the rain. After the 80+ miles Sunday morning jaunt we stopped at Chichester Marina for coffee and a chat before dispersing homeward.

The Wing coped with everything and kept pace with the BMW tourers, adventure bikes and sports bikes. The run leader asked how I managed - I said fine, no problem. All very polite. I got the feeling that their preconceptions had been shot down - and I got invited to the Christmas do.

(for the English readers the 3 vistas were; Butser Hill, near Petersfield, Goodwood Racecourse in Sussex and Chichester Marina on the coast. We started and finished near Southampton)
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 4:31 pm

Scooter persecution. 2012-110

Here we are next to Goodwood - spot the Silver Wing
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SCTLVR
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 4:34 pm

Crap and all, that sounds like a very nice time, especially the Goodwood bit. Have you been to the revival?
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26, 2012 4:41 pm

I haven't been to Goodwood since they stopped racing cars there (back in the 60s). Speed Week and the Revival are events I'd love to go to, but never got there.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 1:55 am

I just recently sold my last motorcycle. I can't say that it lacked storage, you could stuff the contents of two Silverwings in the Goldwing. The Silverwing isn't as comfortable as the big Wing on the road, not as much weather protection, not as smooth a ride and the 1800cc six cylinder engine gets almost the same mileage as the 600cc SW. All that being said I still sold it and kept the scooter. It's the first time in 15 years I don't have a GW. I kept the scooter because of it's ease of handling in parking lots, CVT, light weight, and smaller size. I'll make some 1000+ mile trips this coming year with it too. I'll miss the higher performance of the GW but will enjoy the ease of handling the SW on gravel and in tight quarters. I won't wear my black bike jacket on the SW because that would make me look like a wannabe but I'll still sport my mesh jacket and heavy duty Tourmaster winter jacket.
Scooters aren't popular in the US due to the 'macho' attitude that Harley Davidson has created with it's marketing ploy as well as biker movies. Scooters aren't 'macho'. At seventy years old, one who has over 5000 hours flying time in the Alaska Bush, has sailed his own boat from the US mainland to Hawaii and back, served in the US Army and ridden a motorcycle in all US states except Hawaii plus Baja California and three Canadian provinces I don't feel the need to act the machismo crap. I think a lot of people are missing out on a good thing with maxi scooters either because they don't want to feel 'sissified'.
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acworthpatrick
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 141
Age : 41
Location : Acworth, GA
Points : 4283
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 7:38 am

exavid wrote:
I just recently sold my last motorcycle. I can't say that it lacked storage, you could stuff the contents of two Silverwings in the Goldwing. The Silverwing isn't as comfortable as the big Wing on the road, not as much weather protection, not as smooth a ride and the 1800cc six cylinder engine gets almost the same mileage as the 600cc SW. All that being said I still sold it and kept the scooter. It's the first time in 15 years I don't have a GW. I kept the scooter because of it's ease of handling in parking lots, CVT, light weight, and smaller size. I'll make some 1000+ mile trips this coming year with it too. I'll miss the higher performance of the GW but will enjoy the ease of handling the SW on gravel and in tight quarters. I won't wear my black bike jacket on the SW because that would make me look like a wannabe but I'll still sport my mesh jacket and heavy duty Tourmaster winter jacket.
Scooters aren't popular in the US due to the 'macho' attitude that Harley Davidson has created with it's marketing ploy as well as biker movies. Scooters aren't 'macho'. At seventy years old, one who has over 5000 hours flying time in the Alaska Bush, has sailed his own boat from the US mainland to Hawaii and back, served in the US Army and ridden a motorcycle in all US states except Hawaii plus Baja California and three Canadian provinces I don't feel the need to act the machismo crap. I think a lot of people are missing out on a good thing with maxi scooters either because they don't want to feel 'sissified'.

Well said sir.... The same is true in the US regarding other vehicle types. I love these large pickup truck commercials where they are dropping enormous rocks or other items into the bed while some guy is grunting and talking in the most macho voice LOL.... Then guys buy them and drive them around and never put anything in them Wink

However the market the trucks make sense for are using smaller vehicles to save money. Everything in the US seems to have become about stroking peoples egos instead of buying what fits there needs. Kinda dumb but oh well it is what it is. I am seeing more smaller cars and scooters on the road everyday though as people are going broke and getting wiser about there vehicle choices. I hope the trend continues.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 9:43 am

I like riding scooters and have ridden over 1.5 million 2 wheel miles(do my 2 Messerschmitts count,too?) Often when some idiot in his HD halloween custome (Or Japanese cruiser fake) say something about me on scooter....and I note their chaps, etc which always look new when you don't ride much. They usually say.....when are your going to move up? My reply when you are at my experience level, you might be qualified to comment.----or I was riding Harleys before you were born, etc.

Fun to have fun with them. They don't get it---loud pipes tell me you are an idiot, etc.
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GHM-PM
Site Admin
GHM-PM


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 11:08 am

I have not had any problems and I have ridden with Harley's. Once they learn that you can keep up, it becomes a non-issue. Now would I drive into the middle of a group of Hell's Angels and holler "all you pussy bikers suck"? I think not! Laughing
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 1:01 pm

john grinsel wrote:
...They usually say.....when are your going to move up? My reply when you are at my experience level, you might be qualified to comment.----or I was riding Harleys before you were born, etc.
I'd tell 'em, "sonny I've been there and now I'm going back down."
I especially like it when a non-helmeted HD rider tells me, "loud pipes save lives."
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 1:30 pm

John G, those Messerschmitts, I take it you mean the KR200 type ...?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 3:49 pm

two- a'57used, '59 new----didn't have the money for a TG500. They were wonderful---heater/ radio, remove front seat (easy) and you could sleep in them. Bubble top too hot in summer---should have had the canvas top.------today with Helix rear end and engine would be viable tranport ---I know somebody did make replicas.
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


Number of posts : 288
Age : 69
Location : Hampshire, England
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Registration date : 2012-10-13

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 27, 2012 4:02 pm

I owned a non-runner for a while, but my dad made me get rid of it. We lived not far from a main dealer and I remember seeing a TG500 in racing trim. Fascinating machines!
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swingkeith
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



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Location : Lakeland, Fla
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Registration date : 2012-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 8:44 am

This used to be a thorn in my side. Not anymore though.

It's not a "real "motorcycle" if it don't have a manual transmission and a kick starter. If it has a modern electric starter then you strayed from the traditional motorcycle.

As most of you know we can outrun and out last most traditional motorcycles.

I recently joined a motorcycle club that is 99% Harley, the 1% is me on my Swing. I had to be tested by these guys before I could join to see if I could keep up in many different test. Most times I passed them.

I like educating people about the swing on the interstate, when I pass everything on the road.

The Swing might be classified as a scooter but it out performs motocycles.


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acworthpatrick
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 141
Age : 41
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 8:49 am

Yeah I ride in a local motorcycle club and most of them are riding harleys and my Silverwing or Aprilia can eat them for lunch.
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tinman
Silver Wing Guru
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 am

The first time I went riding with a motorcycle group of HD and V star,riders I was riding in the back of the pack. They were so loud , I could not see how I could last the rest of the trip riding in the back. I past the first 3 riders then 3 more in front of me .I went from 100 klph to 160 klph in a very short time and left them there till I got to the the coffee shop .When they arrived later the leader said I could not ride with them any more, but the others nick named my scoot the sewing machine on steiroid .I prefer to ride alone then anyway. motorcycle
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Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 9:51 am

I've never been much of a fan of group riding, what's to enjoy if the rider in front seems to be forever braking in front of you and the rider behind is far too close in your mirrors. Group rides are always made out in forum posts to be far more interesting than they actually are.

Where's the fun being strung out in a large group where the front riders keep forging ahead seemingly oblivious the middle of the pack and rear riders having to go a lot faster and be more reckless in overtaking traffic just to keep sight of the rest of the group.

I'm another that much prefers riding on my own. Smile





Last edited by Meldrew on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Waspie
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Waspie


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 10:16 am

I'm a loner too. That way if I want to stop - deviate or simple go home I can without any interference or banter from the masses.
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rodenbach
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
rodenbach


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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 10:28 am

In one of the MCclubs I was in, the group outing were quite well organised. Newbies and slower bikes had to ride up in front, close behind the leader, while the mature riders were in the back of the group, since it takes more skills, due to the concertina-effect. Most dangerous situations occur when inexperienced riders try to follow at any cost. It often looks like a case of "flock behavior".

Nowadays I ride alone: I'd rather fly like an eagle than scratch with the chickens... Cool
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 10:45 am

Meldrew wrote:
I've never been much of a fan of group riding, what's to enjoy if the rider in front seems to be forever braking in front of you and the rider behind is far too close in your mirrors. Group rides are always made out in forum posts to be far more interesting than they actually are.

Where's the fun being strung out in a large group where the front riders keep forging ahead seemingly oblivious the middle of the pack and rear riders having to go a lot faster and be more reckless in overtaking traffic just to keep sight of the rest of the group.

I agree with this 100%. Yet I rarely, if ever, see anyone express this, especially so eloquently. Thank you very much for this post.
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acworthpatrick
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



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Registration date : 2011-03-28

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 10:47 am

I enjoy our group rides as long as its only 5 to 7 bikes, 10 max. If more than that are going I'll ride alone that day instead.
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SCTLVR
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 186
Location : Fairfield, CA
Points : 3868
Registration date : 2012-06-27

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 10:59 am

The noise level mentioned above is off the charts loud! I've tried this with just one HD with no mufflers and could not stand it for more than a few minutes. I have an unproven theory about riding vs. being in a car along side a noisy HD: The wavelength of at least one component of the sound is the same as the width of my helmet at ear level. I can handle the sound in my car with the windows open but not on my scoot' with my helmet on. YMMV
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SCTLVR
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 186
Location : Fairfield, CA
Points : 3868
Registration date : 2012-06-27

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 11:03 am

From above message, the HD riders don't hear the harmonically increased noise level because they don't wear full helmets. Nerd stuff, I know...
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 79
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 7528
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 12:03 pm

The main drawback in group riding is the same as flying in close formation. If you're not the leader your concentration has to be nearly totally on the position of the bike or airplane next to you. Only the leader can enjoy a bit of the surrounding country. At least in close formation flying it doesn't last very long while on a bike it can last for hours. Four or five bikes is my usual comfort zone for riding in a group. I have ridden a few times in charity rides of 300-500 bikes but wouldn't want a long cross country ride like that. Besides it makes such a jam when you stop at Dairy Queen. What can I say, I was a GW rider for years?
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GHM-PM
Site Admin
GHM-PM


Number of posts : 2248
Age : 69
Location : Bullhead City, AZ
Points : 6186
Registration date : 2012-05-17

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 12:11 pm

acworthpatrick wrote:
I enjoy our group rides as long as its only 5 to 7 bikes, 10 max. If more than that are going I'll ride alone that day instead.

I agree totally! Riding with a group can be fun but the larger the group the more stressful it becomes. Some string out, others stop w/o warning etc. With a group of 12 recently one guy kept ending up missing...he either got way ahead and had to wait or was way behind and had to fly to catch up!

For me 4 is a good, manageable group. But as you can see by my ride reports ALONE is just fine too!
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Nowun
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Nowun


Number of posts : 288
Age : 69
Location : Hampshire, England
Points : 3849
Registration date : 2012-10-13

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter persecution.   Scooter persecution. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28, 2012 5:29 pm

My ride out with the IAM was my first group ride. It was OK, but only OK. I would rather ride with a few friends, 4 sounds good, or alone is fine.
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