Darkside Tire Poll

I thought it would be helpful to have a Darkside Tire poll.

If you are looking for more information about Darkside Tires here is a good place to start http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html .

I've never heard of that before. Interesting.....

Not really relevant to ME, unless shopping cart tires fit the SWing.

I am afraid i dont see the point unless you only ride in straight lines

High performance car tires are made to be extra sticky on their edges, so I can see how they would work. But the transition from "flat" to "edge" has to be pretty funky. Plus, those things are far more expensive than motorcycle tires.

You could get superior performance in rain and snow, I guess. But I have a CAR for rain and snow.

Some people are just weird, I guess.

No offense....

I just finished removing my rear wheel about an hour ago, and will have the Sumitomo dark side tire mounted on Thursday, just in time for a trip up to Pagosa Springs, CO for the weekend (I figure 350-400 miles round trip). This is assuming that the shop I use for Swing tire mounting will do the job. Some people have said that their tire shops wouldn't do it.

I'm doing this mainly because I'm tired of having to replace rear tires every 6500 miles, and also because everything I've read from people who've made the switch has been good. People who haven't done it have a lot of concerns, fears, and opinions, but I guess I'd rather trust people's actual experience.

I read an account by one motorcycle rider who has ridden 100,000 miles or more, including up to Alaska and back on darkside tires. No problems. Others on the Silverwing forums who made the change also report no problems in many thousands of miles. You'd think that if the tire was gonna create a disaster, it would do so sooner than many thousands of miles down the road.

Anyway, I'm ready to take the plunge. Each to his or her own, of course.

matthew wrote:

I just finished removing my rear wheel about an hour ago, and will have the Sumitomo dark side tire mounted on Thursday, just in time for a trip up to Pagosa Springs, CO for the weekend (I figure 350-400 miles round trip). This is assuming that the shop I use for Swing tire mounting will do the job.

I told them

1) they could write anything they want on the receipt
2) I did not care if I received any receipt
3) If they are still paranoid - if you pay cash there is no proof

If they still do not want to mount the tire, ask the service manager for the closest non-dealer motorcycle repair shop ... tell them I know they install the tire and it would be worth checking them out

Bill,
Thanks for the link. This is the best info I have received on the topic. I'm convinced but received my SW with a new rear tire. so, I'll give it a few miles and then make the switch. Keep us posted on how you like the Sumitomo. What size do I need to order?
>> Dennis

DenGraham wrote:

Bill,
Thanks for the link. This is the best info I have received on the topic. I'm convinced but received my SW with a new rear tire. so, I'll give it a few miles and then make the switch. Keep us posted on how you like the Sumitomo. What size do I need to order?

http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?pid=17998#pid17998

Sumitomo 165/70TR13

Oh, the article Bill links to IS the one I referred to. I hadn't checked it out before I posted.

Hopefully the shop will be ok with the install. I pay cash anyway - $35, so maybe they won't make an issue of it, or maybe they'll want to charge me more?

The only thing that has me concerned at all is the fact that the Sumitomo is made in China. With all respect, and no offense to anyone, it seems that a lot of what's coming out of China is crap. I hope this doesn't apply to this tire.

OK, I'm now on the darkside. No problem with the shop mounting the tire. One of the mechanics said that the GL (goldwing) riders he knows that have tried car tires haven't liked the way their bikes handled. I told him that if that happened to me, I'd be seeing him again to mount a new oem tire.

Got it installed and went for a short - 20 mile - ride to check it out. Here are my first impressions:

On the dirt road I live on - bumpy, rocky rough, rutty - the scoot's front end definitely wants to move around more, flick here and there more, and make wider arcs in significant turns. It took me some getting used to, and so far I've only gone out and in once, a total of about 3 miles. This will require an adjustment on my part.

Out on the pavement, which close to home means a two lane rural, twisty highway, the scoot handled just fine, on the straightaway and in the turns. I can't say that I felt or noticed anything that would concern me. The bike stayed upright, the rubber stuck to the road, and the ride felt as sure or surer than before. If it continues like this, I can say that I now understand why people go over to the darkside.

I haven't had a chance yet to test out the bike in slow speed maneuvers on the pavement. I'm interested to see what that's like, and whether or not it presents any new challenges, or feels unstable or less maneuverable in any way. That's my report for now. So far I have no reason to regret the change, and I AM looking forward to 4 or 5 times the mileage out of the new tire.

matthew wrote:

OK, I'm now on the darkside.

Congratulations.

matthew wrote:

No problem with the shop mounting the tire. One of the mechanics said that the GL (goldwing) riders he knows that have tried car tires haven't liked the way their bikes handled.

I was told the same thing from the Honda dealer.
I did not believe them, because I had read a lot of the GoldWing darksiders postings.

matthew wrote:

Here are my first impressions:

On
the dirt road I live on - bumpy, rocky rough, rutty - the scoot's front
end definitely wants to move around more, flick here and there more,
and make wider arcs in significant turns. It took me some getting used
to, and so far I've only gone out and in once, a total of about 3
miles. This will require an adjustment on my part.

Two suggestions
1) Make sure you are counter-steering (push right to go right - push left to go left) versus trying to muscle the turns

2) Test and adjust the rear tire pressure to suit your needs. I run 50 PSI, based on the feel I wanted with the counter-steering response.

matthew wrote:

I haven't
had a chance yet to test out the bike in slow speed maneuvers on the
pavement. I'm interested to see what that's like, and whether or not it
presents any new challenges, or feels unstable or less maneuverable in
any way.

A lot of times (not all) at lights or stop signs, I do not have to put my feet down because the rear is so stable.

Thanks for the suggestions Bill. I've started out running 45psi. Maybe I'll have to experiment with pressure to see how the handling changes, both on the dirt and on the pavement. What have you found with different psi's in terms of handling?

I'm not trying to muscle the bike around. I don't think I could even if I wanted to. It seems to have more of its own mind now with the car tire, so what I had to do was try to "go with the flow" a bit more, and let the bike take the lead, while, of course, maintaining necessary, but fluid control. On the pavement I didn't notice any significant change in handling.

More shall be revealed.

matthew wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions Bill. I've started out running 45psi. Maybe I'll have to experiment with pressure to see how the handling changes, both on the dirt and on the pavement. What have you found with different psi's in terms of handling?

When I did the shalom within a lane, I would rapidly counter-steer from one side to the other as fast you feel safe. The higher the PSI ... the faster I could feel the response and shalom.

I wouldn't feel safe or secure with a car tyre on a bike that is not designed to cope with the stresses and pressures that a scoot or bike demand. Espcecially on a machine that can go quite fast and accelerate pretty quick too. Plus I do like to crank the wing over quite a bit and the profile of a car tyre is all wrong, so this would feel wrong and awkward, and well could be dangerous? I'm not really interested in super longevity of tyres on scooter which frankly last at least twice as long as a decent bike anyway..... Ok so no disasters yet and many folk do speak highly of the "dark side" experience... Each to their own I guess...

But beware, a real downer for the darksiders could occur upon an insurance claim.... I think there are probably a lot of schmarmy slippery insurers who in the event of a claim involving a darkside tyre would legally be able to withhold paying out based on the fact that the tyre is not designed for the scoot, and therefore your insurance cover is void! I'm not tyring to scare anyone, but best to check the small print first methinks!

The insurance question is very probably a valid one. Wouldn't surprise me at all if coverage is voided by the darkside tire. Frankly, that's something I hadn't thought of. Worth considering.

I would be interested to know if anyone in the u.k or rest of europe have ever fitted these tyres and how they handle, my concern is the same manufacturers make both car and bike tyres and spend millions on development why would they get it wrong and why do we not see car tyres in racing???(dont mean to offend anyone) I would love to know where this all started

As to worries about insurance, I guess I'm not the only one concerned... Have a look at the end of this thread...

http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?tid=3798

Tires sold in the US and used on our public roads must be DOT (Department Of Transportation) aproved. These tires are aproved, but only for the rims they were designed for. Use them on another type of rim and they no longer have the DOT aproval.

This is the insurance companies way out of the liability for paying claims.

Can you do it, shure.
Should you do it, not mine to say.
Would I do it, no, I can't afford the risk.

Have a great day
bob

Bernardo wrote:

As to worries about insurance, I guess I'm not the only one concerned... Have a look at the end of this thread...

http://silverwing.org/cgi-bin/topic_show.pl?tid=3798

If your motorcycle tire do not have sufficient tread depth, then insurance companies can reject or refuse your insurance because you were driving an unsafe tire.

I had read in darkside forums that the only thing the insurance adjuster checked was the tread depth.

So if you are trying to extend your tire mileage, you could be putting your insurance at risk.

Regarding the darkside insurance questions, I would suggest reading this

1) http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=DarkSiding&msg=983.1&search=y

scooterbob wrote:

Tires sold in the US and used on our public roads must be DOT (Department Of Transportation) aproved. These tires are aproved, but only for the rims they were designed for. Use them on another type of rim and they no longer have the DOT aproval.

There are plenty of SWings that are either triked or attached to a sidecar. In fact the normal recommendation is to utilize darkside tires when either triking or using sidecars ... all using darkside tires on the the OEM rims without insurnace problems.

honda_silver wrote:

scooterbob wrote:

Tires sold in the US and used on our public roads must be DOT (Department Of Transportation) aproved. These tires are aproved, but only for the rims they were designed for. Use them on another type of rim and they no longer have the DOT aproval.

There are plenty of SWings that are either triked or attached to a sidecar. In fact the normal recommendation is to utilize darkside tires when either triking or using sidecars ... all using darkside tires on the the OEM rims without insurnace problems.

A scooter or bike no longer leans in both your examples. I wonder if who ever recomends using such tires on a sidecar or triked bike would do so "in writing" for a leaning two wheel vehicle.

I have yet seen anyone post information from the insurance companies, as to their official view on the subject. Not an insurance adjusters personal view, but the view of the main office.

Hearsay and facts are two different animals.

Have a good one
bob

scooterbob wrote:

There are plenty of SWings that are either triked or attached to a sidecar. In fact the normal recommendation is to utilize darkside tires when either triking or using sidecars ... all using darkside tires on the the OEM rims without insurnace problems.

The trike kits come with darkside tires!!


Here is a nice fact some custom bikes comes stock with car tires!!!

http://www.rumblemagazine.net/archives/archive03_09.htm

Bourget's
Bike Works
...
"In addition to being the first custom builder to
put a car tire on a bike".

I just did an online quote request with GEICO. Their application asks if there are any modifications to the bike. It lists several mods like forks, frame, swingarm, etc. It has a place for 'other.' I checked 'other' and it asked for description and price. I wrote 'car tire on rear of motorcycle' and $50 as the price. It came back with a quote.

If you disclose that you have a car tire on the application, and they give you a policy, obviously you are covered.

Can somebody explain the pros and cons of the tyres because i just dont understand it all(im guessing its about lifespan)

mr fish wrote:

Can somebody explain the pros and cons of the tyres because i just dont understand it all(im guessing its about lifespan)

For me it is more about stability and durability. By durability I don't just mean treadwear, I mean the ability of the tire to withstand road hazards, rocks, bumps in parking lot and driveway approaches, and the occasional dirt road. I picked up a metal object on my MC tire that caused a flat. I don't believe the same object would have punctured the tread of a car tire. OEM tires just never felt very durable to me. Any time I would go over over a bump in a parking lot entry or a driveway approach the stock tire just felt weak. The Sumitomo car tire is much more rugged, (durable) in this regard. Since I frequently ride two-up, with the extra weight on the pillion this is important to me. Handling does not seem to be compromised. I feel as safe (if not safer) in turns. (I don't scrape pegs, but I probably experience lean angle of 45 degrees.) Stability is improved. Ruggedness is improved. And the speedo is accurate.

I now have about 500 miles on my Sumitomo, including a three day trip this past weekend of about 400+ miles, including a few miles of dirt Forest Service road, and many miles of winding mountain two-lane. I have to say that the more I ride the CT (car tire), the less different it feels. I guess this is simply getting used to it, but the net result is that it feels as comfortable and stable and safe and easy as the MC tire ever felt. I know there are some differences in handling, but they seem to be just "normal" now, and I have not yet discovered any downside to the darkside. I'm also finding that I'm experiencing a good deal less of the tendency for the bike to want to swing wide in turns on the dirt. I attribute this to my getting used to handling the idiosyncracies new tire.

I made a comment about all of the positive experiences I've read about riding CT's to one of the guys who was riiding with us, and nothing negative, and his retort was "Yeh, well all the people who've died have stopped writing."

This is a bit funny of course, but it also reflects the skepticism that many long time riders have toward CT's. So, any of you out there who have died riding CT's, please chime in so we can set the record straight once and for all.

Ride safe.