Burgman 650 CVT

FWIW, you may be happy you own a Silverwing. If you look at the posts on BUSA over the last nine months, you'll see quite a few on how the CVT has failed. It is a guess only, but I'm seeing about one failure every two weeks. The approximate cost if you take it to the dealer to work on it, is about $3K.

So a Silverwing may be an "upgrade" after all...

It seems generally that the failures occur after 20,000 miles. Some owners will never reach that, but more and more people have.

Chris

Chris,

I read the BUSA site too and it does seem there are a good number of failures. I get surprised though when I read about people saying that if it happens you just throw it away and then go out and buy a new one. I know many are able to work on the 650 like Buffalo and LaDude but I know if I had a major failure on the SWing, I don't think I could buy another one.

The good thing is that it is a very small percentage since the 650 is very popular, and they sell so many of them. We have a member that just bought a 650 and I wonder if he is aware of the stopper bolt issue. I may pm him to see if he is aware of it.

Jeff, it isn't just the stopper bolt. MJR has taken two of them apart and found one of the bearings is failing. I'm not an expert on this at all, but it appears to me that the stopper bolt is simply an indication of the wear.

I actually started this thread because of the member here who is selling his Silverwing after buying a 650. I didn't want to do it, but I also didn't want to stay quiet knowing that there's a problem. I already PM'd him. Go ahead and contact him too, if you'd like.

I actually wouldn't say it is a very small percentage. (And I'm not saying anything here that hasn't been brought up by others on BUSA.) The bike has a reputation overseas for CVT failures. If you do an Internet search on 650 CVT failures, you'll get lots and lots.

Quote :

Given the fact that the CVT of the Big Burg posed many problems for its users (see article here), Read more: http://www.latestbikesinfo.com/suzuki-burgman-650-and-400-confirmed-for-2013.html#ixzz1wyJI8rR1

I started to document the failures by looking back to September 2011 and gave up. The task was more daunting than I wanted to deal with. Maybe because it is depressing. I had around 35 tabs open and some of those had more than one failure in the thread. When LeDude's 650 failed, I did a search for another 650 in the area and came across someone who was selling theirs...with a CVT failure. Lastly, one of the BUSA members rustynail had some parts from a 650 he was parting out and in a week, he got 7 or 10 (I don't remember exactly) requests for CVT parts.

Just an observation from being in the forum since I bought my 07 400, but initially it seemed the bike was indestructible. Someone once wrote that the life expectancy of the 650 to be 15,000 miles. Everyone scoffed at that of course. And for many years, only a few riders ever accumulated enough miles on the 650 to get to that point. But it seems that we're seeing failures as owners get past the 20,000 mile mark.

The 650 is a wonderful bike, even if I have never wanted one. (I'd go with a Silverwing instead...and that's before this CVT issue came up.) I wouldn't say to never buy one, just make your purchase as an educated one, not counting on everything to be perfect.

Chris

I had a friend who had the 650 and got the $3000 transmission problem. He traded it in on a new C50T and got $1000 on trade in.... in other words, I think he gave it back to Suzuki.

FWIW After talking about the $3000 transmission problem with several Burgman owners this past weekend at the Mid-Atlantic Scooter Rally in New Holland, PA, I was told that new Burgmans (Burgmen?) now come with a 5-year warranty.

One (former) owner had 3 trans failures. All of them covered by an extended warranty he had purchased when new. The good news was that the repairs didn't cost him anything. The bad news is that each time it failed it was in the shop for several months.

He's now piloting a Honda.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

FWIW After talking about the $3000 transmission problem with several Burgman owners this past weekend at the Mid-Atlantic Scooter Rally in New Holland, PA, I was told that new Burgmans (Burgmen?) now come with a 5-year warranty.

One (former) owner had 3 trans failures. All of them covered by an extended warranty he had purchased when new. The good news was that the repairs didn't cost him anything. The bad news is that each time it failed it was in the shop for several months.

He's now piloting a Honda.

Do you think he would be paying that $3,000 had he not purchased the extended warranty?

The extended warranty is called the Suzuki Extended Protection Plan or SEPP and is an additional cost if you want it.

The good part is you can buy it at any time within the 1 year warranty period. The best place seems to be from Oneida Suzuki. It's a Suzuki backed plan, not a dealer backed plan, so you can buy it from them (except in Florida) and use it at any USA dealership (except in Florida).

The bad part is that many people don't buy it. So if you buy a used 650, you may not get it with the bike.

Chris

Sounds like the 650 Burgman has a genuine cvt problem.I guess I'll just stay with My Yamaha Majesty till the 650 BMW gets here.I understand it has a diffrent drive train system than the Suzuki.Final drive chain etc. I'm just now getting the bad news about the Burgmen tranny.I have always wanted a Burgman 650,but now I doubt I will gamble on one.

Have you thought about the Honda Intregra that is supposed to be coming out, and hopefully to the U.S.? It is supposed to get in the mid 60's to very low 70's in the mpg department. And it is the DCT with chain final drive.

yamascooter wrote:

Sounds like the 650 Burgman has a genuine cvt problem.I guess I'll just stay with My Yamaha Majesty till the 650 BMW gets here.I understand it has a diffrent drive train system than the Suzuki.Final drive chain etc. I'm just now getting the bad news about the Burgmen tranny.I have always wanted a Burgman 650,but now I doubt I will gamble on one.

You're 85 mate, so don't hang about too long!

I'm quite amused to read this growing this growing hysteria about the big Burgman's transmission as if it's a time bomb ready to go off. You're more likely to cut your hands on the ABS ring moving the front wheel when you clean it, or give your self a hernia moving it's lardass bulk onto the main stand.

Here is my take----as Burgman 650/400-SilverWing 600 reach end of production run---different kind of owners have them, buying used machines and often get upset when repairs are necessary....and the maker won't cover it.

I am sure Burgman 650 has had some drive line problems, new under Suzuki warranty, Suzuki takes care of it.

Used you are on your own as it should be.

Right now I know Burgman 400 and SilverWing 600 have just about the same drive line issues, having owned both since new----Judder---easy fix, it seems after a lot of slow running, just run engine up against brakes for 10 seconds or so. Problem----probably rubber band drive at or over limits where it works well.

I don't think 650 Burgman is bad---just over weight/overprice/uses lots of gas.....probably fun to ride(only ridden one once) used.....complicated and expensive to work on.

Wonder how many have failed under warranty??

And for any Japanese scooters in US....is the mech work done at authorized shops first rate??? My experience says no......maybe HD or BMW in many cases.

Meldrew wrote:

..give your self a hernia moving it's lardass bulk onto the main stand.

+1 To that. I never cared at all for the 650's weight and seat width (that makes flat footing harder). Add to that excessive engine braking on slow speed sharp turns requiring hours of practice to get the throttle "sweet-spot" figured out. Plus excessive stuff on the handlebars and the dorkiest front view where the mirrors make the 650 look like a face that has dumbo ears and a sagging lip. That's just me. Didn't like the digital speedo either (except on the Helix).
My '03 650 model had inherent front bearing problems that I never knew about until it nearly killed me from the wheel breaking into a wobble at 60 mph on the freeway. Sold it and stayed off a bike for a year and a half after that. Not for me anymore. Been there done that. Hearing about the tranny issues only reinforces I'd never go that route again.
I will say that the underseat compartment and extra glove boxes were nice to have, though.

john grinsel wrote:

...Wonder how many have failed under warranty??...

Not many. I spent about 4 hours trying to tally up the reported failures on BUSA. Some failed at as early as about 17,000 miles. A lot of 2003-2004's failed at just over 20,000 miles. Then it seemed the rest of those reported were at 35,000-60,000.

If you look at the mileage of 650's sold, the average is about 11,000 miles. There was one BUSA member recently who was very proud that he hit 10,000 miles ...on a 2003.

In all, I think I saw only one person, maybe two, who had their failure repaired under warranty. That's primarily because unless they get the extended warranty, they don't ride enough miles in a year to have the failure.

Chris

Daboo---pls call me at 715-894-7857 or email jgrinsel@yahoo.com

Thanks

This is for Mildew.......Yes I'm 85 and still riding mucho! I live in Virginia and just got back Home after My annual Sturgis trip.I stopped in Sturgis just long enough to take a few pictures,then headed West to Yellowstone and Glacier N. Park.I made Bear Tooth Pass on the way back,also.Wonderful trip! By the way,I rode My '04 Harley V-Rod! 4,415 Miles! Try that when U hit the big 85 mark! I let My Daughter have My Majesty,and have made a deposit on the first c650gt BMW scooter that gets to My BMW dealer in Salem,va. for all You scoots that have cvt problems with the Burgmans,try a Yamaha Majesty! I put 21000 plus on Mine and had no problems at all! I hope the Beemer will be as much pleasure as the Majesty.By theway,the V-Rod is a gooooood Bike! Just burns a little more fuel than I care about. Adios,Ray Mac.

Sorry,the mileage on My trip was 5,415 miles.

Before I purchased a Silver Wing I was looking at the Burgman 650/400, I think the 400 is the way to go because of the belt, Easy to change oil in, Have you seen how you have to take the 650 apart just to change the oil ?

The 650 Transmission turned me off, I read so many people on the net, Trans failure, " better change the bolt once twice a year " Or that darn bearing deep inside the transmission, when It goes it tares the transmission up !

The Silver Wing is such a awesome bike, all the way around !

I had the Majesty and it is a very good scooter. It was very smooth and comfortable. It is basically a SWing but with only a 400 cc engine (or 395 cc to be exact). I have ridden 5-6 hours straight on it and it was very good at it. I just think that since the SWing is heavier and has the twin 600, and the motor is mounted on the frame, that it makes the really long rides a bit easier to do. I find I don't get quite as tired after long rides.

But 'yamascooter' is right...the Majesty is a very nice ride. And for those that want a 400 cc bike you should also try the Burgman 400 too. It is a bit lower and has power plug already installed and, from what I hear, is equally as smooth and is bullet proof.

It's not what you hear on the UK forums about the current 400 Burgmans, without digging through loads of old posts it seems you either get a good one or a one that's plagued with "juddering". This problem has been going on since it's introduction in 2007 and still hasn't been resolved.

As for the 400 Majesty it's probably evolved into a very nice scooter over the years, but it's been completely overshadowed by the 400 Burgman and it barely gets a mention on the Muppets.

Meldrew, the 400 Burgman used to be the scoot of choice after passed the Restricted A test due to the cc falling within the limits required to legally ride, (circa 2000-2007)/ I believe that made it more attractive and therefore more sellable than the Majesty.

A bolt came loose in my Swing CVT and tore the entire thing up...but it didn't cost $3000 to replace...that's ridiculous.

A former X9er who does many, many miles on his scooter in the course of his work bought a 400 Majesty and loves it.

I was browsing on kijiji Ontario looking what was for sale when I came on a 09 650 Burgman for sale 4 k kl for $900. 00. The hole back end was removed. CVT and motor problem. Glad I have my Swing.

I ended up selling my 2009 B650, because of what you read on forums, it was part-exchanged for a NC700X (nice bike).
I will be doing all my scootering on an S-Wing 125 in future, it is all I need and sometimes I get 24miles/litre which is a result these days.

Some Burgman 650 have over 100K miles on them and still going. Its like playing with one shell in a colt 45 , take a spine and take your chance.

Maybe that's why I see all the 650 Burgmans for sale around here

all with about 15k miles on the clock.

Only seen two other Silverwings in my neck of the woods and none
in stock at the dealer over the past year

I guess we all march to a different drummer.

surlybiker58 wrote:

Maybe that's why I see all the 650 Burgmans for sale around here

all with about 15k miles on the clock.

I've noticed 650 Burgmans for sale in the UK with 8-10k miles on the clock and on the Muppets forum quite a few owners myself included sell or part exchange them after two years of ownership. For whatever reasons they didn't get the "Burgman Grin", and some like me get a Silver Wing instead.

Back in Cumbria I used to know a rather over enthusiastic 650 Burgman rider who liked to tell everyone he was 'married' to his scooter. I thought that's another overweight lardass that's expensive to maintain and difficult to service you've got then!

Meldrew: Back in Cumbria I used to know a rather over enthusiastic 650 Burgman rider who liked to tell everyone he was 'married' to his scooter. I thought that's another overweight lardass that's expensive to maintain and difficult to service you've got then!

Thats twice youve made me laugh recently, this and Winslow Arizona

Well, I guess I'll find out I got a very good deal on a '07 Burgman 650 last week. It's parked beside my SW in the garage, the SW has 18,000 miles and the Suzuki 13,000. So far the Burgman is running fine though I also think the engine braking as you slow down is a bit excessive. I can prevent it with careful throttle work and I suppose it will be come automatic for me to do that but it would be nicer if it decelerated like the SW. To an old Goldwing rider the Burgman feels more like a touring machine, oddly it's quicker handling than my SW. I don't know exactly why possibly because of slightly larger wheels and a different fork angle. It takes less pressure on the bars to switch from a hard turn one way to the other direction than the SW. If I have a problem with the CVT transmission I'll rebuild it. I got the machine cheaply enough I can afford to do that and still have a pretty good deal. The Burgman in pearl white isn't as pretty as my red SW though. One reason I bought it is because of it's greater payload. I can ride with the wife on the back and stay within the max vehicle gross weight on the Burgman but not on the SW. I plan on keeping them both for some months to decide which one I want to keep. At the moment I like 'em both and wouldn't want to decide, time will tell. In the meantime it's like chewing Double-mint gum. I'm having twice the fun.

The tire dia but fore splitting hairs is the same ,only the rims are bigger. Enjoy your rides ,and inspect your stopper bolt for damage at every oil change.

exavid wrote:

>> If I have a problem with the CVT transmission I'll rebuild it. I got the machine cheaply enough I can afford to do that and still have a pretty good deal.<<

Is there good information available regarding a DIY trans rebuild? Seems to be that the Burgy trans is pretty complex

There is a good tutorial by LeDude on his site. It's complete and detailed and will save a good bit of wasted effort if I have to do that job. I doubt it would be a worse job than overhauling the Ford 460 in my truck. Not something I'd really want to do but I sure wouldn't want to pay $3000 to have it done. At least as long as I have both scooters I can ride one and work on the other. I don't think this scooter will go to pot very soon, it sounds very good and was used for commuting on a lightly traveled highway with a 55mph speed limit. With 13,000 miles, that's pretty easy use for a bike.
I already ordered a stopper bolt and will check it soon. The guy who owned this scooter changed his oil at 3000 mile intervals and did check the bolt each time.

It actually works out for me rather well, I have two of the best maxi scooters and cash left over from selling my GW.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

exavid wrote:

>> If I have a problem with the CVT transmission I'll rebuild it. I got the machine cheaply enough I can afford to do that and still have a pretty good deal.<<

Is there good information available regarding a DIY trans rebuild? Seems to be that the Burgy trans is pretty complex

Yes the Burgman USA forum is vary active for the DIY person.

Today was reasonably warm, 52F so I took a nice ride first on the Burgman then on the Silverwing. The Burgman definitely is a more posh ride, smooth with just about no vibration at all. It's a bit faster on the throttle than the SW when running in the 'power' mode. For riding two up it has about 100lbs more payload which helps for us. Both of us on the SW would put it over weight by 50lbs or so. I also like the goodies like the ambient air temp and the mileage computer. Very powerful brakes.
The Silverwing gives a more sporty feel, it's lighter, less mechanical noise, sporty sounding exhaust and feels better throwing it hard in the curves to me. Not as strong in the brakes but adequate. Much simpler maintenance. It looks like the Burgman will be the one I'll choose most for riding two up or on longer trips due to the increased comfort. The Silverwing will be my choice for shorter jaunts, when I want to carve a few twisties and solo riding. I really can't make up my mind which one I like best so I'm beginning to think I'll just have to keep both of them. That way if one's down for maintenance I won't lose any riding time. Both scooters cost me less and a large motorcycle and insurance is pretty low for both of these bikes at $150 per year for the two. Just PL and PD, they don't cost enough to pay for collision or theft. I really have to stay away from a T-max or I might end up stuffing a third bike in the garage.

exavid,

Thanks for the write up. I hear the B650 is a nice scoot and smooth too. Have you had a chance to play with the gears much? I have always wanted to ride one but just haven't gotten the chance. But are you sure it has 100lbs more weight capacity to it?

$ 150.a year for 2 scooter. Over here my Swing is $428.,same coverage and minimum of 1 million, only ride 5 month of the year.and that's the cheapest I could fine.I am getting ripped off.

Come on over to BC and enjoy mandatory government insurance if you think your being ripped off. My Swing is $96.00 per month basic coverage( I mean basic). With 3 other vehicles and a utility trailer in the household I am paying just over $500 per month ($6,000 per year) for auto insurance.

I've been on the Steve Saunders Goldwing forum (best GW forum) for about nine years and have heard those complaints from our Canadian friends for a long time. It sure does seem high across the border. I have a bad feeling that with Obamacare coming into the US we're heading the same way on insurance in the next few years.

We have a minimum one million liability PL,PD. What is the minimum coverage in your country? That might be why are rates are so high.

That's a big part of it, I only carry $50,000.

Wow, That is a Big difference ,in coverage . I guest that is where law suits makes up for personal injuries to cover hospital cost. We canadian don't no how to say no to high cost of insurance.

Chilliwing wrote:

Come on over to BC and enjoy mandatory government insurance if you think your being ripped off. My Swing is $96.00 per month basic coverage( I mean basic). With 3 other vehicles and a utility trailer in the household I am paying just over $500 per month ($6,000 per year) for auto insurance.

Yep your gettin ripped off. I have the Swing, an rv tt, an atv, a snowmobile, and the family sedan all with full coverage for $202 a month. State Farm. Good driving record.

40 years of claim free driving....max discount with government insurance 45%.

Sheesh, talk about a thread being hijacked, how'd we get from a Burgy trans to insurance?

Its cabin fever all over again. Blame it on the the man.

The same way 'UK Politics, no wonder the Colonials wanted Independence' was hijacked into a thread about daft old men with small penises wanting to fight off anyone threatening to take their guns away.

Yep, us under endowed crazy old geezers in our hundreds of thousands certainly will resist any confiscation. We may be under developed but we aren't emasculated like some. At least our Olympian pistol teams don't have to leave the country to practice.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/sports/olympics/handgun-ban-after-1996-mass-shooting-hampers-british-olympian-georgina-geikie.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

exavid wrote:

Yep, us under endowed crazy old geezers in our hundreds of thousands certainly will resist any confiscation. We may be under developed but we aren't emasculated like some. At least our Olympian pistol teams don't have to leave the country to practice.

So what? Some of our athletes trained at altitude in Kenya, cyclists in Europe, swimmers in the USA etc.

You crazy old geezers of course could spent the rest of your lives armed to the teeth waiting for something that isn't going to happen. Or if it does weigh up your chances against whoever it is they send to confiscate your guns. They certainly sorted out those with similar views as yours in Waco back in 1993.

You will of course let us know how you get on.

Meldrew wrote:

exavid wrote:

Yep, us under endowed crazy old geezers in our hundreds of thousands certainly will resist any confiscation. We may be under developed but we aren't emasculated like some. At least our Olympian pistol teams don't have to leave the country to practice.

So what? Some of our athletes trained at altitude in Kenya, cyclists in Europe, swimmers in the USA etc.

You crazy old geezers of course could spent the rest of your lives armed to the teeth waiting for something that isn't going to happen. Or if it does weigh up your chances against whoever it is they send to confiscate your guns. They certainly sorted out those with similar views as yours in Waco back in 1993.

You will of course let us know how you get on.

Amen