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PostSubject: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 06, 2011 6:27 pm

Just got a copy of Motorrad-Faherer from Germany, test of revamped SW-T600m(C-ABS).

Not much change, guess only ABS-linked now. Wheels black=ugly.51.3 DIN HP, they claim power is now up to competition (Suzuki 650?)


Price=8990 Euro so it means we get them much cheaper here. Test was in Rome. Tester said no turbulence----don't believe.....of course hard to go fast in Rome for long.

But as sales come-on for Germany---free accessory package to buy now--top box heated grips, leg shields, free inspection. For now.


Wonder when comes to US? Black Wheels enough to make me buy something else.


John Grinsel


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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 5:01 am

In the "MOTORETTA" is also a test of the "new" Silver Wing...
In my oppinion nothing really new. They modified a little bit the engine for better emmision and a little bit more power, designed the tupperware like a Burgman and thats it...
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 9:28 am

Sometimes its good to hear about 'only' an evolution - it mustnt always be a 'revoltution'.
In our fast running time its usual, get all 2-3 years a complete new model, and the customer has to test the result. (I'm afraid to buy a new car - I think that the newer doesnt become better)

RJ
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 11:14 am

But after 10 years...
Sometimes a "little refoluton" is needed i my oppion. If Honda wants a little bit from "burgman-cake" they have to do something and they have the "perfect technology" for a maxi scooter: HFT...

But it seems that i'm alone with this position Wink
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 12:11 pm

BlackFly wrote:
designed the tupperware like a Burgman

Do you have more details??

The tupperware on a Burgman make it difficult to service.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 12:59 pm

I think there is everything like the old one but the new front is looking like a burgman with the 2 headlights.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Blackfly,

I wish they would come out with a newer version too with the HFT. But until then I'm happy with my SWing. The pictures of the "maybe" new honda is pretty cool looking but looks more like a sport bike. I will try to find the picture.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 08, 2011 6:11 am

BlackFly wrote:
I think there is everything like the old one but the new front is looking like a burgman with the 2 headlights.

I assume you mean headlight side by side not on top of one another?

I actually prefer the 'Wing's current light configuration.

If I wanted a Burgman lookalike I would have bought a Suzuki. Hope Honda keeps its originality with the design of the 'Wing'. No argument from me on upping the HP, I am definitely the more the merrier with regards to power.
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BlackFly
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 08, 2011 6:52 am

Yes that is what i mean...
Unfortunately i trashed the magazin after i read it so that i cannot scan it...

The "new" one looks behind the footstep like the old one (except the rear lights) and the front have the same lights side by side like a Burgman and everything is a little bit more modern and round.

But nothing realy new...

PS: On the german Honda Page are some pictures
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 2:09 am

I am in the same boat as JeffR. Give me the engine and the HFT off the DN-01 and keep the rest. A Swing with 680cc's and 60 horses? HFT as a bonus! Sign me up!!
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 4:43 am

Maybe with the next facelift in another 10 years? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 9:32 am

BlackFly wrote:
But after 10 years... If Honda wants a little bit from "burgman-cake" they have to do something and they have the "perfect technology" for a maxi scooter: HFT...

But it seems that i'm alone with this position

Black Fly,

Your not alone! Honda has some first-rate technology. The HFT (as used in the DN-01) and the dual clutch gearbox used in the VFR1200 are just a few. Unfortunately, the poor old SilverWing seems to miss out on any of these goodies.

Before others race off to flame me, I love my 'Wing and think its as good or better than most of its rivals. However, that is not something to be bragging about. As already said, the 'Wing (including the "new" model) is technology that is more than ten years old. How many folks are using ten year old computers to read this post? How many are driving ten year old cars? You are most certainly not using a ten year old mobile phone.

The bleeding-edge is not a good place to be but reasonable progress is good. Just have a look at Honda's motorcycle range. How many CB's and CBR's would they sell if they were all ten year old models?

IMHO we scooter riders are being sold a little short by our favourite scooter maker.

Now I'll put my crash helmet on and wait for the barrage.

Regards,
Peter
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 9:36 am

JeffR wrote:
...The pictures of the "maybe" new Honda is pretty cool looking but looks more like a sport bike.

The "new" SilverWing looks like this:

news from Germany 2010-honda-silverwing-gt-600

Its actually based on the SW-T 400 which is now at least two years old.

Regards,
Peter
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 9:41 am

BlueSwing06 wrote:
I am in the same boat as JeffR. Give me the engine and the HFT off the DN-01 and keep the rest. A Swing with 680cc's and 60 horses? HFT as a bonus! Sign me up!!

BlueSwing,

I agree! What about all those goodies in a package that looks like this:

news from Germany Mid-Concept1

This is Honda's Mid-Concept bike/scooter that was displayed in Europe late last year. Hopefully they can change the final drive from a chain to a belt before production but as I understand it uses the VFR's dual clutch automatic gearbox.

Regards,
Peter
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 9:45 am

Peter, Your safe. Most of us love the Silverwing scooter for is simple design, great reliability record, ease of riding, and it's ability to be up-graded easily with some wonderful accessories. Starting with a good proven foundation is the best way to go in my opinion. sunny
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 10:24 am

Chasing change is not where I live. I have a 300,000 mile chev truck, a 250,000 mile fat cat car and a 23,000 mile Silver Wing. I appreciate reliability and I understand that my part is to maintain them in good order and appearance as best I can. In fact it is my quiet scourse of pride that the machines I own start instantly and rise to the task at hand. At the rate I'm using my Silver Wing it may be worth much more then book would suggest. I will just keep doing what I'm doing, riding.

news from Germany DSC01410
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 10:41 am

Peter,

The picture you show of the "mid-concept" is the one I was thinking about. I think it looks pretty cool and I would buy it. I really like my SWing and couldn't see ever getting rid of it except for something like the mid-concept. I would rather have a belt too but if it came with a chain I could live with it, just wouldn't prefer a chain or even a shaft drive. Hopefully though if they come out with a new bike it will have a bit more mpg's with the new technology...even though I get 50 mpg if I ride it to the speed limit.

cool link - after reading the article go to the bottom of the page for more links to other new projects.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/honda-mid-concept-scooter/
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pja
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 10:56 am

papa johns wrote:
Chasing change is not where I live. I have a 300,000 mile chev truck, a 250,000 mile fat cat car and a 23,000 mile Silver Wing. I appreciate reliability and I understand that my part is to maintain them in good order and appearance as best I can. In fact it is my quiet source of pride that the machines I own start instantly and rise to the task at hand...

That's terrific and I'm sure you love your vehicles. However, what would you be driving/riding if Chevrolet had not done the development work to produce your truck, or the "fat cat car company" to produce your car and Honda to produce your SilverWing. The world needs to develop new ideas and we need to adopt them, some at faster and some at slower rates; but move forward we certainly need to do.

During my working life I was employed by several companies that failed to innovate; none are here today and all those jobs are gone. Most of those products are imported from China or south-east Asia. That can't be a good thing surely? None of this is meant as a slur on your practice of looking after your vehicles over a long period of time. For example, I love old bikes and cars but I really appreciate all the performance and safety features of my Mazda 3 and my Honda SilverWing. What some of us are saying is that we would like Honda to be applying some of their engineering skills to new models of our favourite scooter not just change the orientation of the headlights. After all, they do it on other vehicles they make.

In Australia, the motorcycle and scooter market is relatively small. Honda was selling the SilverWing from 2001 to 2010. They have NOT imported a new model since 2007. I purchased my 2007 model in late 2009. Now I got a really good price reduction and was happy with the deal. However, the deals were offered because they couldn't sell old stock at the normal price. Because sales were so bad Honda Australia is not "going to get caught again" and they are not importing the "new" twin headlight model. If I want to buy a new Honda maxi scooter when I want to replace my current scoot I simply can't buy a Honda (as much as I want to). At the same time, look at Honda's MX bike and sports bike ranges. Lots of development and here in Australia they are No. 1 in their respective markets.

Sorry to prattle on but IMHO standing still is not an option these days.

Regards,
Peter
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 11:02 am

JeffR wrote:
Peter,

The picture you show of the "mid-concept" is the one I was thinking about. ... after reading the article go to the bottom of the page for more links to other new projects.

Jeff,

The Mid-Concept has 17" wheels, now that would make touring nicer. Amongst the other concepts is the BMW Scooter. It has been re-shown at a recent Paris scooter show in a form closer to "production". Its rumored that it will be a 600 cc twin but will have all the "mod-cons" and electronic safety gizzmos. If BMW don't charge too much for this bike I think they will do very well with it. However, competitive pricing is a concept that BMW does not seem to understand Laughing

Regards,
Peter+
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 12:27 pm

Point well made.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 12:57 pm

I look at the picture of the Mid-Concept, and the first thing I think of is... Where is the storage? We all talk about reliability, confort, etc., but what rarely gets mentioned, but we all use it, is the large under seat storage area. I chose the SWing over the NT-700 for that very reason. IMHO, that HAS to be part of any formula for the next-gen Silverwing.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 5:16 pm

I saw a T400 'in the flesh' shortly after they appeared here - the chap riding it said it was the very first in Belgium.
Certainly it's a nice bike but looks too 'busy' for my liking.
The somewhat understated looks of Silverwing 600, 650 Burger, Tmax, Atlantic and so on are much more attractive to me and there's plenty of bling to bolt on if one wants - that shows up better against the aforesaid scooters.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2011 5:37 pm

GaryL wrote:
I look at the picture of the Mid-Concept, and the first thing I think of is... Where is the storage? We all talk about reliability, confort, etc., but what rarely gets mentioned, but we all use it, is the large under seat storage area. I chose the SWing over the NT-700 for that very reason. IMHO, that HAS to be part of any formula for the next-gen Silverwing.

Gary,

I just happened to have been in Italy when this bike was on display and the storage is unbelievable. When I opened the seat and looked in I saw a 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo with a circular stairway. chickendance

I was wondering the same thing since it doesn't seem like putting a top case on it would be possible or worth it. It looks like a top case would look kind of strange. But when I look at pics of the E4-01 they seat opens up and it can store 2 full face helmets. So many the engineers were able to do something for storage. But as i get older (bigger) I notice I need more room just for my jacket. But I still like the looks of the mid-concept and would probably buy one, with the wife's approval, if one came out. I don't really tour at all but just go on long rides when I can.

Peter,

Hopefully if they come out with a 600cc twin it will have a few more hp and more efficient for mpg's. I do good on the SWing if I stay to the speed limit but if I decide to cruise at 80 mph the mpg's sure do go down.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 10, 2011 1:38 am

Jeff,
Thanks for the clarification on the storage. I took another look at the picture, and I can now see where they might accomodate that kind of storage area. All of the open space above the rear wheel led me to believe that it was pretty sparse. I agree on the comments about the top case. Hopefully we get the answer soon on what Honda is going to do for us here in the States. small moped
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PostSubject: Got one of the new SW-T600's   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSun May 08, 2011 3:47 pm

I recently got a new SW-T600. I had a 2001 Silverwing, so know what both are like to own.
There was nothing wrong with the old Swing (only had 32000 miles), but it was time for a replacement.
The new SW-T600 is mostly a cosmetic update, and I like the new front end. The new clocks are nice too. The engine is unchanged, maybe a bit more power. Also it is a bit more economical. It's a tried & tested engine, so there was no need to radically change it. New front end is slightly more aerodynamic, but only noticable at speed. Transmission is very smooth too.
Underseat storage remains unchanged, but the front 2 storage compartments are much smaller. I guess that's down to the redesigned front end.
Overall I'm very happy with the new model.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSun May 08, 2011 5:57 pm

Martins,

Congrats on the new SWing and it is good to hear that others are buying it. I'm not sure if we will get the new SWing over here in the states anytime soon, if ever. I have read that it is supposed to have 1.5 more horsepower and should get about 9% better gas mileage, due to the new aerocynamics. It will be nice to hear more as you put more mileage on it and see if the gas mileage is in fact better. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSun May 08, 2011 6:42 pm

I consider my Swing "state of the art". I don't own a cell phone, our newest car is an '02 and the car I drove to church this AM is 37 years old. The last scooter was a '93 Helix which was a giant leap from the '47 Cushman I started on. Granted, this computor is not ten years old, but it is half of that. I fully expect the '07 Swing to be the last two wheeler I own in this life, no matter what bells and whistles they attempt to intice me with. Most of the folks I work with are half my age and those that ride prefer Harleys, which are hardly "state of the art". That's my two cents, thank you for a stimulating post and allowing me to comment.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeMon May 09, 2011 9:29 am

For those folk like me who didn't understand HFT, here's a link that explains it.

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/HFT/
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeMon May 09, 2011 10:42 am

martins wrote:
I recently got a new SW-T600. I had a 2001 Silverwing, so know what both are like to own.
There was nothing wrong with the old Swing (only had 32000 miles), but it was time for a replacement.
The new SW-T600 is mostly a cosmetic update, and I like the new front end. The new clocks are nice too. The engine is unchanged, maybe a bit more power. Also it is a bit more economical. It's a tried & tested engine, so there was no need to radically change it. New front end is slightly more aerodynamic, but only noticable at speed. Transmission is very smooth too.
Underseat storage remains unchanged, but the front 2 storage compartments are much smaller. I guess that's down to the redesigned front end.
Overall I'm very happy with the new model.

There's no 12 volt power socket on the SWT-600 according to 'Motoretta' magazine, no fun for anyone with an average sized flaccid penis there then! Smile
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martins
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeTue May 10, 2011 4:19 pm

Mildrew is right, there is no 12v power socket. But I don't recall ever using the power socket on my old Silverwing. Not sure what that has to do with a flacid penis though Laughing

Gas mileage is about the same around town, but definitely better out of town on the motorway. So far I'm getting 53mpg in town & 65mpg on the motorway. That may improve as the engine is run in. Still only have 500 miles on it.

Also I was just browsing the web this evening, and came across an image of the front end of the Yamaha T-Max, and thought that the SW-T600 is very much like it, except for the T-Max mirrors. But the lights & front indicators are very similar.
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PostSubject: Re: news from Germany   news from Germany I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 02, 2011 10:54 am

If Honda had change to the hydrostatic gearbox like DN-01, I would have thougt about a change to the new model. But now I think I had to stay by my 'old' SW - I even like the old design better.

RJ
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