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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 12, 2009 10:09 am

What do people make of bike and scooter culture today? Smile

I think that to all intense purposes all scooters are motorbikes, except that they have a step through and are automatic....

When you consider the threads and many of the scooter forums mentioned here, it seems that many folk do use scooters as an increasingly popular and viable solution, and choice instead of (and sometimes, as well as) bikes......

Many scooters at a glance look more more bike like, and some handle more like bikes, for example the Yamaha Tmax and the GP Gilera.

I was thinking a little how sad it is that many bikers won't wave to scooters, and or just ignore them when frankly many scooters especially maxis are much the same thing, perhaps just not as powerful, but probably more versatile......

The old rift between scooters and bikes is still apparent, but why? Is this a kind of narrow mindedness, a different perception or just another element of modern culture that is still adjusting...... There is a bit of an irony when in the past, for example the 60s, the mods and rockers culture did polarize things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mods_and_Rockers


I an not ageist, but there also have been changes in that since the advent of the Maxi scoot, they have become an increasingly popular choice for older riders who previously had bikes. Some ride scooters because they are more versatile, others because they are more comfortable, or both. Also there seems to be another group of younger riders who choose a scooter because it suits them more..

My brother in law now in his late 60s recently bought a Piaggio x9 as a run around when his kawasaki GTR 1000 (concours) was stolen. He loved it so much that eventually he bought a 650 burgie. Interestingly in the past prior to the kawasaki he had a Honda Deauville, but had said it was an old man's bike.

I was thinking there is a big blurring of boundaries happening especially with the advent of automatic bikes, for example the Aprilia Mana. That bike even has the same engine as the GP Gilera 800 scooter..... You can also buy Yamaha's flagship tourer the FJR1300 as an automatic...

Is it OK to refer to your scoot as a bike? I think it is....

What are eveyone elses thoughts?
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 12, 2009 11:18 am

Bernardo wrote:
Is it OK to refer to your scoot as a bike? I think it is...

Being a conformist :lol!:

If someone refers to it as a scooter ... I call it a motorcycle.
If someone refers to it as a motorcycle ... I call it a scooter.

I find that it causes them to think past their original expectation.
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Bernardo
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 12, 2009 2:46 pm

honda_silver wrote:
Bernardo wrote:
Is it OK to refer to your scoot as a bike? I think it is...

Being a conformist :lol!:

If someone refers to it as a scooter ... I call it a motorcycle.
If someone refers to it as a motorcycle ... I call it a scooter.

I find that it causes them to think past their original expectation.

Well that's one way of going about it! Smile

I remember someone once describing that they get so fed up with the scooter wisecracks they just say that they ride a honda, or a Silver Wing Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 14, 2009 12:01 am

I'm not sure anymore, the difference between a scooter and a motorcycle is converging now days and was never that clear to me. I had a few Honda mopeds in the 1960's that had pedals but were still stepthru frame, and Honda had the hondamatic back in the 1970's.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 14, 2009 12:22 am

I think when talking about the big scooters, that it is hard to determine the difference with m/c's. I know that my Silver Wing is just as powerful and fast as the Sportster I had once, and it is really much more comfortable and smoother. I do wish these big scoots had bigger tires and a little better suspension, but other than that they are closing the gap with motorcycles.


Last edited by JeffR on Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 14, 2009 11:13 am

My son is a long time BMW rider, I was to for about 16 years. Because of that I go out of my way to call the Silverwing a Scooter (just for his and his HD riding friends reaction). I love to see the expressions when I show up at the local biker bars with the SCOOTER. LOL!!
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 14, 2009 2:22 pm

Jon:
I must admit, I like to tell people I ride a scooter,and watch their reaction. They look at my size (6'5" and 240) and gasp! Then I laugh and tell about the Silverwing. But when they finally see it they usually say "that's not a scooter, that's a motorcycle". But whatever you want to call it - it sure is fun to ride...
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 14, 2009 6:30 pm

Right on. (that tells you how old I am?)
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2009 11:50 am

I agree, lately, I have just been saying I bought a Honda Silverwing. If they don't know bikes they think I bought a Goldwing and wonder how I can handle a bike that big. If you say scooter to many people they just think of the young kids on the 50cc. I explain I can go up on the Interstate and they gasp.
I look at my retired group I ride with and most of them had bigger motorcycles at one time. I think they find them comfortable, easy to handle and so maintenance free...more time to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 16, 2009 2:44 pm

I admit that I skirt around using the word scooter. I refer to my SW as a Honda Silver Wing. When I first got it, I was telling a group of guys about my new scooter. I pretty much was the subject of jokes the rest of the day. The biggest jokester saw it about a month later and he said he was glad that I got rid of my scooter and upgraded to a motorcycle. When I told him THIS IS my scooter that you guys were laughing at, he was amazed. He later asked if he could take it out for a spin, I told him I doubt he could handle it. BTW, the only person that has rode my scoot... uh, SW since I bought it was my 21 year old son, and a friend who already owns a SW.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 16, 2009 7:29 pm

Skiwoods~great pictures of you bike!!! Smile I want to get a Givi trunk, that looks good on that bike.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 25, 2009 5:52 pm

We call our SilverWings Scooters, Bikes, Motorcycles, Scoots, Rides...

Most everyone in our circle of family and friends know that we have the SilverWings and that they are technically (based on appearance only) scooters. But since we have travelled long distances and use our blog to keep them informed of our travels most of them also call them motorcycles. Few of our family ride two wheeled motorized conveyances (not a term I use regularly). Those who do ride - ride HD, and some of them partake in some good natured ribbing, but have yet to show me the pink slips when I've offered to take it from them.

We wave at everyone we see, and most wave back. Some times I've been busy with traffic or looking at something and I miss waving at someone. Is it possible that they are on a site somewhere telling everyone how rude scooter people are?

I'm not certain why people become stand-offish or defensive about their ride. But, from a short stint in the HR-EEO world I do know that for many the only way they can feel that they have made the correct choice is to belittle someone else's choice. Self esteem is a tricky thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 28, 2009 11:23 pm

I get the same response as Coralee. I just say I have a Honda Silverwing and let them draw their own conclusions. Most think scooters are kid's toys and not 600cc powerhouses. Scooter or Motorcycle? Who cares, I love my SWing. Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 29, 2009 11:08 am

I belong to Classmates and moderate a thread called Motorcycles. Yesterday a new rider came along with this: " My first bike was a 1982 Honda 500 Silverwing. I kept that until I bought a 2002 Harley Ultra" (in 1982 the Silverwing was a precursor to the Pacific Coast, if I'm not mistaken).

So, just saying "I have a Honda Silverwing" could be open to a misunderstanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 29, 2009 11:18 am

Your right Jon. That is what happens. They immediately think I'm talking about a 500 Silverwing. Sometimes I will correct them and move on.

Most of the time it boils down to a macho thing, "Oh I have to have a motorcycle, I can't be caught on a scooter"
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 29, 2009 1:15 pm

I agree fully. That's why I love the scooter. Even though I have some 40 years of motorcycle experience and less than one year of scooter time, I have never felt part of the "motorcycle experience" bs. Of course, I have never had nor did I want any of the big "cruiser" things. I had a sport bike before it was cool to have one, I had a dual purpose bike at the same time (in fact the same bike, a BSA 500 single, served as both at different times in my time with it).
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 26, 2009 11:54 am

OK, being 34, I generally tell people I have an aprilia, now a honda. usually followed by scooter. When they look confused or what ever, I laugh and tell them the truth.

REAL men drive scooters, what are you compansating for?
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 2:35 am

Just to clear up the Silverwing thing, the name was first used by Honda in the early 80sfor a 500cc little Goldwing clone for a lightweight touring bike. It was increased to 650CC in '83 or thereabouts because it was widely claimed to be underpowered. Honda resurrected the name for the scooter in 2003 of course which did generate a little resentment in those who still ride the original SW.

I've owned motorcycles and a scooter or three for at least 54 years now and don't care what anyone thinks about either. I enjoy riding my Goldwing and my Silverwing. I wave to other riders and I get waves back more often from motorcycle riders than from scooter riders, even when I'm on my SW. I wonder why?
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 6:56 am

Personally I don't think it's the step through that's the biggest problem for most bikers (although for some it will resonate as a 'ladies' bike), but the lack of gears and the stodginess.

Whilst an automatic gearbox seems lazy to some, more importantly (bash the hornets nest) we just don't have the same degree of control afforded by a manual gearbox when it comes to cornering/braking.

I suspect some will disagree, but this is my personal opinion having ridden a considerable number of bikes and a few scooters. For me what it boils down to is liking all the positives of a scooter but admitting it is not a motorcycle. Having said that it is also not a scooter... as most would perceive them.

I'm afraid we are a breed unto ourselves and anyone outside the fraternity is... well.... confused Scooter and bike culture Icon_question


Last edited by wingnprayer on Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 am

Wing:
I think you are correct about the automatic transmission. I have heard the same type of comments in the automotive world concerning "sports cars" with automatics. When the bike was stock there were a few times that I wished I could have dropped it down a gear while climbing a hill or exiting a curve, but since I put on the J Costa variator, as soon as I twist the throttle it kicks right into the power band and away I go. Granted, it still isn't as quick as a sport bike, but it is a lot more comfortable, carries a lot more gear, gets far better fuel economy, and provides better protection from the elements, so overall for me it is a better choice. And if the Harley weenie compensators don't want to wave at me, I'm OK with that..
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 12:08 pm

I agree with wingnprayer, even though my current motorcycle is by far not a sport bike I can push it to it's limits in the twisties, especially up and downhill twisties much better than my SW. The automatic transmission doesn't allow the fast gear changing needed to keep the engine in the power band. On the bike I can drop or pick up a gear in a fraction of a second, the CVT can't match that. Not that the scooter is a slouch mind you but there is a price for that great convenience of the automatic shifting.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 1:53 pm

bikers wear leathers because chiffon wrinkles too easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 30, 2009 4:31 pm

The divide between bikers and scooter riders is definitaly narrowing I believe. The days of the mods and rockers has long gone.

As more of the larger scooter owner are joining owners clubs and the like and spreading the good word. I know my time with the Suzuki owners over here in the UK I didn't convert anyone but they accepted me and my ride, (Burger 400), I tend to be quite enthusiastic and that carried over too.

The summer rice rocket riders are the main protagonists of scooters as they don't understand technology hasn't just advanced sports bikes but has actually passed over to the world the scooter.

When riding I tend to receive acknowledgement from other riders, mainly I believe because they recognise I ride all year in all weather, it seems to count for a lot round here at least. Whenever I park up and bikers are milling around I tend to start chatting to them and in the main respond, usually asking about engine size and speed etc.

I have to say that in my part of southern England the most ignorant riders are other maxi riders!! I know not why but even I think a lot are a right ignorant bunch.

Toaday with bikes and scooter all capable of 100mph+ we all share the same risks in an accident and on the road in general.

I personally don't care what any one rides. I love fast bikes but would never own one because I know my limitations. If a machine is capable of silly speeds I would have to do silly speeds, (at least once) Scooter and bike culture Icon_twisted Because of that, I restrict myself to something functional and to my personal liking.

Love live the Wing.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 1:00 am

LOL.... My wife is releived I didn't go back to a trimph sprint for the same reason. I am not smart enough to not go and find out if it can go as fast as it says.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 5:35 am

A DISCLAIMER - A general statement is bound to be be wrong sometimes.

However, I think Waspie is right on target with his observation about the general ignorance of scooter riders as a group about other scooters and riding in general.

This would be a good time to review the disclaimer above.

Kim and I have been to a few rides and rallies and at these events we meet all kinds of people. Often we hear other scooter riders ask or make one of the following statements: "What kind of bike is that?" "Oh, I didn't know Honda made a big scooter." "You rode here on those?" "You rode how many miles?"

I once lost about 20 minutes of my life listening to a guy moan about how "real bike riders" don't wave at scooter riders. The ride leader briefed us, we mounted up and he fell into a spot between Kim and I then spent the next 40 miles of the Blue Ridge Parkway ignoring the same people he claimed ignore scooters. Kim waved, I waved, but the pompous rider was struggling to maintain control of his scoot on the gentle curves of the BRP, and couln't have waved if a gun was pointed at his head.

We once (at a rally) headed out on a out and back group ride - probably about 40 miles round trip - about halfway to the intended destination we were surprised to find that we were pulling off the route to rest. 10 miles of riding and we're going to rest?

We also meet some very savvy folks on scooters so I acknowledge the need for the disclaimer.

The best way to spread the word about scooters - show an interest in other riders and their rides. People will generally reciprocate and when they do, be knowledgable about your own bike and it's capabilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 9:17 am

Nice post ,I always wave at other bikes .Most wave back ,some don't some time I don;t notice them wave at me until it is to late .Usually because I was looking at some thing else. So if that happens to me it could happen to other riders as well .
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 9:33 am

An interesting thought is why do bikers (and flavours thereof) wave at all? When you're driving your car, riding your bicycle/skateboard/horse or any other form of transport you don't wave or acknowledge your other road peers, so why do we do it on bikes?

There must have been a place and time where this first started and it's interesting that it now seems somewhat international since they obviously do it in Europe and North America.

Answers anyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 11:31 am

My first experience was with sports cars. In fact, almost all imported cars were part of some sort of "club" and we acknowledged that fact by a "thumbs up" on the road. This was in the the early 1950's.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 11:52 am

We also do it in OZ, and it was very prolific amongst motorcyclists. More recently the influx in scooterised commuters has diluted the rider pool and the freindly gestures seem to go unnoticed except for us older diehards.



Oddly enough, when travelling long distances in the outback or eg the Nullabor, everyone , bikes, cars, trucks, semi's etc will wave to each and every vehicle is treated as travelling companions, at least until one gets back to sillyvisation.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 12:35 pm

Used to be common in the countryside when there wasn't as much traffic as there is now to wave to passing motorists. In the late 50s and early 60s it was very common to wave to other drivers of sports cars. I sure remember that when I had my '57 MGA. Motorcyclists probably will quite doing it if we became more numerous. I've often made the joke that I need a glove on a stick hanging out on the left side of my bike in some of the more popular bike riding areas.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 12:46 pm

Here in the states the JEEP community also does the wave thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 1:12 pm

I've read on the Net that there is even a secret motorcycle language (particularly among Harley riders) whereby leaving a helmet in front of your bike when parked up has significance as does the way that you wave or the tapping of your helmet (eg 'there's a cop ahead').
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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 2:35 pm

AA (Automobile Association) patrol men used to salute members sporting an AA badge on the front of their cars.
If the patrol man didn't salute, the driver knew there was a policeman ahead so slowed down.
Incidentally, the AA men then rode motorcycle combinations - vans came later:

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/aa-heritage-vehicles/bsa-m20-and-m21.html

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/aa-motorcycle.htm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/archive/article4114540.ece?slideshowPopup=true&articleId=4114540&sectionName=PhotoGalleries

Now gone full-circle (scroll down to the bottom):

http://www.twistngo.com/news-twg.htm
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Waspie
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Waspie

Number of posts : 2392
Age : 69
Location : Portland, UK
Points : 6939
Registration date : 2009-07-26

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 31, 2009 3:53 pm

wingnprayer wrote:
I've read on the Net that there is even a secret motorcycle language (particularly among Harley riders) whereby leaving a helmet in front of your bike when parked up has significance as does the way that you wave or the tapping of your helmet (eg 'there's a cop ahead').

Sounds like the 'Masons' have infiltrated the HD community! Scooter and bike culture Icon_smile Scooter and bike culture Icon_smile Scooter and bike culture Icon_smile

I think waving is a sign of mutual respect, certainly for the two wheeled community.

VW Beetle owners used to wave quite prolifically. (There used to be a common assumption that the wave stemmed from the nazi salute but I think not).
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Murf
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 144
Location : NW Florida
Points : 1717
Registration date : 2017-04-19

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 20, 2017 4:00 pm

I would like to freshen up this Forum. My friends all ride Harley's but I have always road something else. The reason came down to this when your young and macho, the Harley advertising blitz gets to you. Harley riders don't even acknowledge a Honda VTX 1800 that can blow there doors off.

On the lighter side, I am an old school biker that just likes the wind in my hair. The the scooter keeps me riding into my 70s Ill be a happy man. My big grin will disarm them. All disrespecting Harley riders glares aside. LOL
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MikeO
Site Admin
MikeO

Number of posts : 3451
Age : 72
Location : Seaham, Co Durham, UK
Points : 8085
Registration date : 2009-06-29

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 20, 2017 5:23 pm

Freshen up the Forum?
It doesn't need it, especially with the continuing influx of new members joining with long-standing members, many of whom have vast experience of most styles and makes of P2Ws.

Adding to threads last posted in nearly eight years ago, containing posts from members long since departed, is not going to 'freshen' things up either. Wink
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oldwingguy
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 1858
Location : Hocking Hills U.S.A.
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Registration date : 2016-01-29

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 21, 2017 7:55 am

Many interesting comments here Smile They wave I wave, sometimes they don't nor do I, I take no offence either way. Is it a xxxxx or a yyyyy, well it has two wheels = bike, 600 cc = a lot of " bikes, a different body style, hmm = bikes, a CVT transmission or auto" paddle shifters" both in new bikes or trikes. But what ever your ride enjoy if it were not for the CVT I would be stuck in a cage for the remainder of my years Sad Much is made about what we ride and not enough about the fact we do something most don't and if they don't understand it I don't try to explain it. Smile and move on.
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Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew

Number of posts : 3737
Location : York, North Yorkshire, England UK
Points : 7742
Registration date : 2010-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 21, 2017 8:28 am

I'm always amused by posts going on about 'cages' and 'cagers', considering the vast majority of riders slating them on motorcycle/maxi scooter forums inevitably become cagers themselves at some stage of their adult life. Alternatively if two wheels is their only form of transport,  it's a mixture of envy and resentment.

Look at any workplace and the vast majority of parking spaces are taken up by cars, and in the US pick ups. Neither do you see anyone doing the school run on a PTW, lugging a couople of large suitcases on one to an airport, taking home trolley loads of groceries or supplies home stashed on a motorcycle or scooter.

It wouldn't have done much for your sex life in your younger days either, expecting your latest squeeze to perch on the back of your bike when it's cold and wet, wearing that tatty old helmet you should have binned long ago when all of your friends and hers are sat in dry warm cars, steaming up the windows.

The cool kids on American TV always borrowed the family T-Bird, station wagon or pick up to take their girlfriend to the High School Prom, they didn't turn up on a little scooter.

Out of curiosity, when the fabled ’riding season' ends for those in colder climes and the two wheeled toys have been put away once again until Springtime. How do their their owners get about, I'm sure they're not walking everywhere, or using public transport, cabs etc. I wonder how do they get to work, to shop, keep business and hospital appointments etc? Don't they quietly become cagers themselves and then spend their time on forums like this telling everyone they wish they could be out riding.  Smile
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2658
Age : 78
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 7189
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Scooter and bike culture   Scooter and bike culture I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 21, 2017 10:38 pm

No problem with inclement weather Meldrew, I just drive my cage. Referring to cages and cagers really isn't intended to insult anyone, it's just a pretty common name for vehicles on the road that have more than two wheels. It's because they're caged up inside the machine instead of out in the weather like cyclists. By far most of the riders I know have a 'cage' in the garage. I have two cages and one scooter in my garage. The wife and I use 'em all. Nothing derogatory about the term. But then not every one is sensitive to the various nuances of language on this side of the pond.
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