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 bloody fork seals

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dspevack
honda_silver
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lesley & John
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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lesley & John

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PostSubject: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 11:48 am

i fitted new seals and dust seals around a 1000 miles ago original honda but went for a ride today to find one leaking.now the confusion bit/when the scoot has no weight on it and i bounce it up and down no leak.when i ride the leak is only on the front part of the stantion not at the rear so halfway around the front .my worry is that would a seal leak in such a manner if the top bush was worn or is it purely the seal but why only at the front and not a complete ring of oil around the fork.the leak is sufficient enough to run down the fork stantion in as little as 10 mile ride .any help i would be grateful pale
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 12:22 pm

Hi lesley,

HMMMM....New Honda seals. The bushings are are good. I would take a very close look at the upper leg and see if it is scrached, worn or bent.

Just a thought. Suspect
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lesley & John
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 12:54 pm

i think the bushings are original as in 6 years old 64000 miles do you think some of the chrome might of wore from the stantion with those miles maybe the chrome has lost some of the thickness .
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 1:38 pm

It may be less hassle and potentially cheaper in the long run to replace the

- Dust Seal
- Stopper Ring
- Oil Seal
- Back-up Ring

and perform all the checks from the Honda Service Manual.

I also keep a fork gaitor on the front forks to reduce dust, grit and rocks ... to reduce the wear/tear on the forks. The fork gaitor ( http://www.hippohands.com/Products%20Description.htm ) closes with Velcro, easily cleaned and reflective.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 4:21 pm

I think your bike is on its period.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 4:37 pm

I'm sure those fork gaiters do what they're supposed to, but they aren't very aesthetically pleasing.
They look like a John Grinsel bandaid solution to a problem that doesn't exist rolling laughter
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 5:53 pm

bigbird wrote:
I'm sure those fork gaiters do what they're supposed to, but they aren't very aesthetically pleasing.
They look like a John Grinsel bandaid solution to a problem that doesn't exist

They may not be aesthetically pleasing to you ... but if you search the "other" forum you will see others reporting "pitting" of the fork tubes from "road debris" and then leaking oil ... unprotected forks could have consequences.

Even John Grinsel uses fork gaitors per the "other" forum
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 6:40 pm

honda_silver wrote:


They may not be aesthetically pleasing to you ... but if you search the "other" forum you will see others reporting "pitting" of the fork tubes from "road debris" and then leaking oil ... unprotected forks could have consequences.
Even John Grinsel uses fork gaitors per the "other" forum

I'd be more worried about my radiator than the upper forks.
Texas must have quite a few stone and debris covered, sandblasted roads.

When I ride down to Texas I'll have to make sure my Swing's got the gaiters installed. Might even have to buy a Scooterskirt in case it gets cold.
Just funnin' with you, Honda Silver.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 01, 2011 10:25 pm

bigbird wrote:
Texas must have quite a few stone and debris covered, sandblasted roads.

The majority of our roads are stone chipped.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 9:40 am

Fork protectors= Dennis Kirk part #58-734 $16.99 US


I think they work and have been using them for about 15 years. Problem for me in past with uncovered fork tubes, bugs, which in time seem to work/destroy seals. Always after bike has bath, a squirt of light oil around the top of seal, keeps things slippery.


Could care less how they look interested in function. They are another thing the maker left off. Some bikes/scooters do come with little shields to protect fork tubes.


John Grinsel
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 10:34 am

Thank's John, that would work fine on the scooter.

Here's the thread: http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=15JVR2BRL3UD5QFIDYECM4WAVAPAUIV0?store=&skuId=58734&mmy=
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 11:45 am

john grinsel wrote:
Always after bike has bath, a squirt of light oil around the top of seal, keeps things slippery.

That is a great idea Exclamation

What kind of oil do you use ... same type of oil in the tube which should not deteriorate the rubber seals ?
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 11:56 am

Any light oil would be fine. Fork oil would be fine. Rubber seals don't have a problem with petroleum based oil, be it detergent oil or not.
However, I don't think I would use snake oil.
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 2:41 pm

Hi Lesley,

Regardless of where the oil is leaking from the seal - the seal has failed.

I've got a sub 4000 mile SWing and the fork legs are pitted, I think this is porbably due to a stone chip in the chrome that has then gone on to fester while the bike has been stored for a long period of time.

As I previously posted, I had the fork seals changed by the dealers at the same time as they put Hyperpro Fork Spings in and serviced the bike. The mechanic who did it all, actually 'polished' the fork leg pitting with some 2000 & 4000 grit wet & dry paper to take any burrs off the pitting on the fork leg; not something at the time I was particually enamoured with. However it seems to have worked for now.

Fitting a set of gaiters now is a waste of time, solve the failing seal problem first. 64000 miles is a fair distance for any machine, and you are likely to pick up chips etc. in the chrome along the way, and there will probably be some surface wear as well.

My 1983 650 SilverWing needed the fork legs rechroming a couple of years ago, mainly due to worn chrome on the stantion - you can tell the worn area because it actually looks shinnier than the original surrounding it!

I had a couple of options, as no replacement items were available from Honda; I could either strip the forks completely and send the stantions off to AB Engineering and have them rechormed for £60 each plus postage. Or, I could remove the fork legs from the bike, leave them complete and contact Philpotts Engineering. They arrange a courier (you pack the forks), they collect, strip, check, rechrome, rebuild and deliver your forks back - with a (I think 3 year) gaurantee. All you do is stick them back in the bike and ride happy. Okay, it costs £200, but a courier cost £40+ return, the seals are genuine Honda and cost £26, factor in the other work (strip, check, chrome, grind, polish etc.) and all of sudden it starts to sound cost effective. Esp when Worlds End Motorcycles are offering aftermarket replacements at £97 (+vat & Postage) each - you still need to get the seals etc, reassemble the forks, then fit them!

I had my forks reworked by Philpots Engineering, I used the premium service described above and have been very satisfied with the results - Once I got them back, I fitted gators. I doubt I've have to worry about the chrome for the next 25 years or so..........

To be honest, I'm considering having the same done on the Scoot as well, piece of mind if nothing else, all I gotta do now is save up the pennies.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 2:49 pm

I just ordered a set of NOJ black neoprene fork guards on eBay. Much cheaper for me in Canada than Dennis Kirk's ridiculous shipping prices to Canada.
Now I don't have to worry about my exposed fork tubes being sandblasted, stone blasted, or bug blasted while on the road.
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 3:07 pm

bigbird wrote:
I just ordered a set of NOJ black neoprene fork guards on eBay. Much cheaper for me in Canada than Dennis Kirk's ridiculous shipping prices to Canada.
Now I don't have to worry about my exposed fork tubes being sandblasted, stone blasted, or bug blasted while on the road.

BB, probably a great move, I used to be able to get 'fork gaiters' here in the UK for peanuts - literally a few pounds, then all of a sudden the suppliers stopped getting them and the price went through the roof.

TBH they've never been sexy but hey, they do work, just like enclosed chain guards.... My mate has a 15 year old 350 Jawa which still has the original chain fitted - it lives in about a pint of oil LOL.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 3:42 pm

bigbird wrote:
I just ordered a set of NOJ black neoprene fork guards on eBay. Much cheaper for me in Canada than Dennis Kirk's ridiculous shipping prices to Canada.
Now I don't have to worry about my exposed fork tubes being sandblasted, stone blasted, or bug blasted while on the road.

cheers
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lesley & John
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 5:49 pm

Cheers for the advice skippy but I need the bike 5 days a week for commuting I've delt with wemoto before and been very happy with there service and knowledge .what wears the chrome of the forks is it the top bush in the lower leg ,I have to admit one stantion does look more shiny than the other and funny enough this is the one that is leaking.thanks all for the advice I will have to order a complete seal bush and stantion set .anotherissue has been that some ham fisted idiot has rounded the Allen key bolt that holds the fork slider together to the lower leg ? I was thinking of welding a Allen key into the rounded bolt so that might give me the grip I need to undo the bugger .ive tried to bang a torque bit into it but that just rounded the bolt even more any suggestions
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 02, 2011 6:41 pm

Lesley,

Okay, I understand your need to ride to work. So perhaps Wemoto is the way to go. However, with the issues that you have perhaps a look around on the net may supply you with the relevant items inorder to build up a decent front end so you can just do a swap?

From what you say, at the very least you are going to off the road for a weekend, and thats only if everything goes according to plan. With a shreaded locking bolt you could do a lot worse than drill the head off! Patience, and care will see you through. Once the bolt head has release, in all probability, the remaining shank will unscrew with finger pressure only. All you need to do is rebuild the fork leg and replace any item that are beyond/past service requirement.

Welding in an Allen Key is a really, really bad idea. Unless you have a TiG perhaps~? and even then its not worth it. The damage incured, and the hassle involved, well lets just say its not an avenue I would choose to follow.

I must say that if you want long term assurance then Phillpots is probably the way to go.

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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: bloody fork seals   bloody fork seals I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 03, 2011 8:24 am

Aby sort of protection is better than nothing. I used pieces of old bicycle tube on my old dirt bikes. worked like a charm too.
re asthetics, just how much of the Swings inner tubes are visible anyway? how much does rechroming cost?
Thanks for the reminder John, I had totally forgotten about some sort of gaiters.
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