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 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???

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Cosmic_Jumper
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 20, 2010 2:26 pm

Would a 400 or 600 Helix be a better, more versatile scooter, than a Silverwing?? Would it even be mechanically possible?? Thanks for your post.....Jeff. 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? 383825
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 20, 2010 4:06 pm

If you remember the TV show "Monster Garage" you know that anything is possible.

All it takes is time and money.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 20, 2010 10:46 pm

I remember reading a post, that if it weren't for the power deficit, the Helix owner said " Handling, convenience, fun factor,......the Helix cannot be beat". Now, I have never ridden one, but I trust this Honda owner's judgement, and have gone ahead with the only thing that I Know to do. CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP.
Just received the following........Refreshment Services Pepsi, has agreed to the engine upgrade as long as the new name is "Silverwing Summer Citrus".
Jesse James has offered the engine swap to a 6000 cu in Allison aircraft radial 12 cylinder........but Sandra called, and I personally think she's too Hot to ignore.
Don Garlits Museum has offered any of Big Daddy Dons Toro lawn mower engines.
The Lazy Boy Corp wants in, but insists that the seat must be able to 3 position recline.
Suzuki's Burgman Division, Tom,........ wants to donate anything in exchange for Sandra Bullocks phone number.
I await anyone's input on this project, and hope for pending sponsorship, from Bill Gates, and/or Monty Python. Jeff. 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? Icon_smile
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The Scootist
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 21, 2010 12:31 pm

I think a 1000cc engine from a Triumph Speed Triple on a beefed up scoot frame with 16" wheels would be a pretty good start...
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Jeff Rosenkranz
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 21, 2010 6:03 pm

Scootist....that sounds like track time at Laguna Seca. If we both win the lottery....lets build 'em. Jeff.
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The Scootist
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 21, 2010 6:04 pm

Count me in...
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 2:43 pm

From what I've seen, a Helix with even a 500 cc engine would be ideal. So long as you put bigger tires on it. The helix as is, is an amazing machine. A 250 that can cruise at 70 mph all day. That has to be close to the "red line". I saw an article, where they put one on a dyno. It puts out 19hp and has a maximum speed of 80 mph. Of course that's on a dyno. Under load it wouldn't do that. Think the max under load is like 75.

And from what I hear, they are supposed to be very comfortable to ride. Never ridden one, but I'm starting to consider one, if I can't get a Swing.

It's still amazes me how Honda built such a low stress engine.

edit:
The information about the dyno comes from an article on the Iron Butt website. A man named Ed Otto piloted one in the 1995 Iron Butt rally. Finished 22 out of 37 finishers with more than 9500 miles ridden. Not shabby at all for a 250 scooter.
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GaryL
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 3:52 pm

I have owned an Helix, and currently own a Reflex in addition to my Silverwing. In my opinion, the Reflex is pretty much the same as the Helix, except in a more modern chassis. Unless you are crusing the interstates on a regular basis, it will handle almost anything. It will do the interstates as well, but it is not particularly happy at those speeds (as someone pointed out, it is near redline, and is not as stable as the SWing over 70mph.) I use the Reflex around town, and the SWing for the longer rides. Best of both worlds. Smile
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 6:42 pm

The CN250 Helix was only for sale in the UK from 1989-91 and had a price tag of £3500 which was very expensive at the time, so not many were sold. I bought a new US spec import model in 1996 from a dealer in York and rode it until 2004. It made a great little tourer and would return 85 miles to one of our Imperial gallons at a constant 65 mph. Taking it over that speed, or riding into headwinds would see the fuel consumption drop considerably.

It was comfortable to ride all day especially after I fitted a Utopia Products backrest, but also scary to ride in crosswinds. I also bought a weird looking two piece windshield that combined bodywork and screen. The Helix was a pretty rare sight on our roads and I was always answering questions from curious bystanders.

I've regularly toured in Germany since the mid 80's and continued to do so on the Helix. I attended a couple of Helix rallies over there, at Bad Lauterberg in the Harz Mountains, and Travemunde on the Baltic Coast. I think was the only Brit that turned up on a scooter to the 98' F.I.M. Rally in Falun in Sweden. Sadly there's no longer ferries to Sweden from the UK.

I'm poking about in the dark recesses of my new SilverWing, learning more and getting it ready for winter, but if Honda brought out a bigger revised version of the Helix I'd be very interested, and if I get as much fun out of the SilverWing as I did with the Helix I'll be very happy.

It's nice to be on here folks Smile
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Dale
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 19, 2010 7:50 pm

I missed my Helix, greatly, from the time I sold it. I didn't get my Swing 'til a month or so later. After my first few miles on the Swing I didn't miss the Helix so much. When the fellow who bought the Helix brought it back to me for work (My hours had been cut at my real job) I replaced the driven clutch and belt and test rode it. I don't miss the Helix at all, now.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Helix   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 8:15 am

A400 Helix or 350 would be better. I ride scooter as scooter, putt-putt and do not need it as sub for real motorcycle. Have had plenty of them to the tune of over 1.5 million miles.

My Helix experience= 4 new machines, each ridden 36-50,000 miles and traded.


Good point: easy to work on. Drive belt changable at road ride--no clutch take apart. Easy Engine access, one 6mm bolt to get seat off. Price.

Bad point: intake manifolds cracked (carry spare) Mufflers fell apart from inside at 30,000 miles (Honda paid under warranty) They would probably go a true 70 mph downhill tailwind but came with J rated (62mph) tires...something to think about! I had one moving rear tire failure in Japan (Bridgestone)

Built in Trunk.GREAT! Much lighter than SilverWing 600 which is kind of overweight pig.

Front suspension did not like winter salt. Would start at near zero F after night in motel parking lot. Small oil capacity required frequent oil changes.

Valve adj---simple system, could be done in parking lot. Try that with shims.


Handle bars too high---but popular with the backrest and highway peg crowd. Great in snow, until you needed slow engine braking.

I tried two piece windshield from UK. Some improvement.

Could take endless wide open running---I made several US coast to coast, including winter.

A larger engine bore @350 or even 400cc would maybe make a more power Helix, now Fuel Injection, cat converter would be required---match set of 12" wheels and tires interchangeable, spare tire and wheel, better wind management, out the door wet weight of under 400 lbs.

Note: one of my Helix was japan market model (Fusion) and although parts book showed it to same as US Market model, it seems to run smoother than us model. At 112kph it felt electric motor smooth.

All of my Helix were mag wheel type, some had adjustable rear shocks---never engine trouble---WalMart oil worked great in states.


John Grinsel


And non-linked rear brake pedal! Great in slow traffic as balancing aid. Simple drum rear. I have seen some mods in Japan that I liked, low bars,exhaust.

Great scooter the Helix---that's why I bought 4.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 11:15 am

john grinsel wrote:


Bad point: intake manifolds cracked (carry spare)

Wife to John: "Honey, are we ready to drive down to Tennessee to visit those dirty toilet rest stops?"
John to wife: "Not quite, dear. I just have to pack that backup intake manifold along with fresh gasket just in case. Even though I just changed it out this morning, you never know when it might fail again".
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 11:25 am

That was almost my exact thought. I've never had a break down that required immediate mechanical attention on the side of the road - car or motorcycle.

I did once have a rear tire peel itself. Not much I could have done as my rubber trees, vulcanization plant and tire casting tools were at home Crying or Very sad

I did have a cell phone and a wad of cash - problem solved.

The Helix is an ugly beast, but apparently quite comfortable.
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Dale
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 11:32 am

Great post John,
I longed for a big bore kit for the Helix, when I owned one. (a 93 model) I still think it could be done practically without lengthening the stroke. I bought mine at a salvage auction in 97 for $500.00. I was the only bidder. I probably could have gotten it for $50.00. I could have ridden it home instead of hauling it, if I had known to push the rear brake when trying to start it. duh
When I worked at the local Honda dealer for three years I kept it up pretty well and replaced all the plastic with the yellow from 2004. I also added the support bracket for the carb, air horn from the later models. I would still own it if I hadn't washed out the front end and low sided then high sided then low sided 18 months ago.( my Swing has ABS) I rode it for another year, but when I got the chance to sell it for $200.00 more than I paid for it, I did. I would never impune the Helix or anyone's opinion of it, but I sure like my Silverwing.
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 12:48 pm

john grinsel wrote:


A larger engine bore @350 or even 400cc would maybe make a more power Helix, now Fuel Injection, cat converter would be required---

Don't know which models you owned but the newer ones have a catalytic converter. I saw a manual for an '04 model and it specifies Unleaded fuel with a pump octane of 86.

Edit: Just looked at that manual. I have it in PDF format. Doesn't mantion a Catalytic Converter anywhere in there, so maybe it doesn't have one, but it still says to use Unleaded fuel.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Helix   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 4:41 pm

To jdeeranton and bigbird.

I don't think you have ever taken serious bike/scooter trips=5,000 miles or more and be self sufficient. Taken stuff to get you back is important.
Use bike everyday for everything and lots of stuff can happen. Nice to be prepared.
Motorcycling/scootering is changing----people now hide under bridges when it rains rather than carry rainsuits and rubber boots.

Some on this forum recently described trailering to rally. What happened to riding?

By the way TN has dirty bathrooms in eating places, stores gas stations. Lower standards here. Ever see where they rank in Education? Building?

John Grinsel
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 5:33 pm

john grinsel wrote:
To jdeeranton and bigbird.

I don't think you have ever taken serious bike/scooter trips=5,000 miles or more and be self sufficient. Taken stuff to get you back is important.
John Grinsel

You're right John, I haven't.
But I had to laugh at your suggestion of taking a spare intake manifold for a Helix with you on a long trip. If you thought the manifold might crack, why wouldn't you be proactive and replace it before you left?
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 6:36 pm

I cured the inlet manifold cracking problem on my Helix by using a loop of elastic cord from and old luggage net fastened inside the plastic toy container from inside a Kinder Surprise chocolate egg. The elastic loop went around and under the manifold supporting it from the engine movement that caused the cracking, and the egg shaped container placed above on the pipes above was held in place by the tension of the elastic. It cost next to nothing to make as I found the toy container discarded in the street.

I replaced the elastic a couple of times as it aged and stretched, but it done the trick and the manifold was undamaged when I sold the Helix six years later.

p.s. If you want dodgy bathrooms go to Hungary. I've been in ones where there was no locks on the doors, and the doors opened outwards!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Helix   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 8:22 pm

#1 I go to Dentist in Hungary, so know about it.

#2 on Helix intake manifolds----failure could not be predicted. Easy for me to carry a spare and change in parking lot if necessary. I had several rubber band supports and think I made support, but still had to replace. I was in my second retirement at the time of lots of Helix miles---some years 50,000, which means 2 new bikes a couple of years. I would spend 6 months a year on road, sleeping where I could----and then fly to Europe or Asia for the other half.

Returned to work 2003, resigned/retired again jun 2010----think I will be called back soon for Asia or Europe.....gets me paid way out of TN.
,

Helix was also good at carrying stuff, low tunnel for big "tank bag" two rubber bags fit on passenger seat, I had a few different top boxes....and the built in trunk---enough space for camping as well as a cooking kit----didn't overload and kept weight low, even made ski rack in Japan.


John Grinsel
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 20, 2010 10:11 pm

John, you are indeed a character..... in a good way.

What type of work will be calling you out of TN to Asia or Europe, if you don't mind my asking?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 8:34 am

I worked as safety manager for the army----overseas work attractive as they pay rent and cost of living---I spent nearly 40 years overseas.

Original Safety, 1970, traffic and motorcycles in Tokyo Air Force---we were killing 6 people every 8 weeks.....and repeating. Bikes were cheap and everybody had one-----under $400 for Honda 350 on road. Anyway I had idea onhow to fix problem and told Wing commander his program sucked, he was in jam and let me take it on-----decent training, not MSF-----in addition to parking lot all got 150 lead miles in Tokyo traffic, raised skill levels--we some how later had 39 month stretch of no deaths. After the traffic session many never rode again----very hard teaching Americans to use throttle instead of brakes to save their butt.


Later completed 4 year Safety Degree, published, worked on bike magazine, Auto-by, on the side, published, later got into explosives and ended up around '92 as chief of explosives safety for Korea.
(US Army) I don't know how to blow things up but I know how to prevent when you don't want to. Always rode bikes, no car/no wife. Had to face the motorcycle problem again big time in Germany after about 2004---when the big boy's personal pilot killed himself on bike. Idiot, passing in no passing zone got hit on wrong side of road------so, there were about
2,000 US Forces registered riders....and all were ordered to be retrained----but many were not serious riders and did not ride anymore. So as Community Safety Manager and motorcyclist, we retrained-----my only comments, these were supposedly MSF trained riders, holders of various US lic. and military lic.-----For the most part their skill levels were awful--didn't matter zip bike or cruiser.....but in some cases real struggle as some HD and cruiser riders didn't know how to lean-----Given new basic skills properly (I had 2 trained German instructors who rode everyday all weather and went fast) I think we did great things for the riders we served.----note on this I went to some German bike safety training, some US MSF instructors didn't show up on bikes(too cold for them) pretty hard to get training on bike, when you didn't ride. Even had one GoldWing type, with the vest with all the self awarded pins and medals, say that some of the training was dangerous-----no, he wasn't skilled enough to do it, yet he was riding around with big bike, big momma and trailer.....and he was instructor.

Of course I am not shy and say what works and can save lives. Think on the road training (in addition to basics done in safe place) works. My working area in Japan had build up dirt mound for doing stop and start on hill, some dirt riding in ditch to get people to stand on pegs, fairly high speed braking area with soft runn off----and different from most training,linked 2'x12' planks about 35 feet long....ride over looking ahead, look down off you go. Gas,clutch and rear brake coordination worked on. In Japan, you send a lot of time lane splitting and better know what you are doing at slow speeds----and then some American "safety" experts will say it is unsafe---idiots. Big Bike stay in your lane, you will get nowhere, there are special lanes for bikes sometimes. Korea even more fun.

So that is some of what I do/did----have to see what comes up in coming months----I need paid way out of TN. I got married at 65 and do not like being idle in place with no skiing, etc.

John Grinsel
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 9:59 am

Very interesting bio.
I'm sure with your many years of 2 wheeled safety training we could all benefit from your expertise in that area.

Lane splitting, illegal where I drive, would scare the hell out of me. The drivers here, and by the sounds of it everywhere else in N. America, are for the most part, as you put it, idiots.
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 21, 2010 3:42 pm

john grinsel wrote:
To jdeeranton and bigbird.

I don't think you have ever taken serious bike/scooter trips=5,000 miles or more and be self sufficient.

John Grinsel

John you are indeed a character, and add to that "mistaken". Further more if I've made the money and choose to use it while on the road to sustain my ride rather than spend it in advance on parts and then lug those parts across the country am I any less self sufficient? Especially given that I've never had need for a mechanical repair during any of my travels.

It is possible to be a straight shooter and tell the truth without wrapping it in lemons and acid. I too think you have much to add, but when you phrase things the way you do - those nuggets of wisdom are lost in all of the negativity.

I believe you have unique talents. Sad that the world has little need for public restroom evaluation. I just say things the way they are.
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Hammy
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 22, 2010 9:15 am

I know one guy who's done 30 Saddlesores in 30 days. That's 30,000 miles in 30 days. Maybe he's a serious rider. I'm a proud member of the Iron Butt Association, but I know some guys who ride no more than 300 miles a day who I know could probably get out of a jam anywhere with just whatever fits in a saddlebag. If you're going to go on a 5000 mile ride, and since you have as much experience as you have, I'm sure you'd check your bike out to find out what could fail and have it replaced or fixed beforehand. Even then, stuff happens, and there's no way you can carry everything possible to fix every possible problem. It's one thing if you're going off road on a wild adventure by yourself far far away from civilization; then you'd better have stuff to help you get back. I'd rather make sure I pack enough supplies for myself rather than cart around enough spare parts to build another Silver Wing! There's only some problems I know how to fix on a bike and for which I'll pack a spare (e.g. belt!). For everything else, there's roadside assistance.

I don't particularly care for the looks of the Helix myself (wish the front end didn't quite look so much like Woody Woodpecker), but wish they'd make a 600cc Ruckus, or a naked scooter without tupperware.
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ronjr009
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 07, 2010 5:09 pm

I no longer have my Silverwing (I now have a V-Strom 650). But i still have my Helix and will never get rid of it. It simply saves me too much money as it is the cheapest thing to ride on two wheels. If someone is resourceful enough, I'm sure they could do something crazy to beef up the power but if you wan't some practical tips.... Here are some that will definitely improve it substantially in the bottom and mid and slightly on the top.

1. Get A malossi variator with 16 gram weights. I did the sliders from the good Dr. but the malossi was quite a bit better. If your main use is around town, I'd go with the 14 gram rollers for a little extra punch but you will struggle to break 70 MPH. 16 is a nice all around weight. I've tried both so can speak from experience.

2. Take the carb off and replace the slow and main jets. Honda used either #108 or #110 main jets in the carb. i upgraded to a #112. The #110 is fine but the #108 is pretty lean which is why I think Honda changed it. I believe the #112 is even better. Some have run a #115 and claim that it has improved the top end slightly. In either case, a larger jet will probably hurt fuel mileage ever so slightly but nothing major and will help out your top end some. I still get 70 MPG or higher on mine with the #112 and I don't ride very conservatively. There is also a slow jet upgrade. Stock is #38. They have a #40 or #42 that you can get. I stayed somewhat conservative and used the #40. My top speed on flat pavement is generally between 72-76 MPH depending on wind.

3. NOW................... Here is where you can get some free horsepower!!! The exhasut manifold is 2 pieces and welded together. You will have to remove the muffler and then the exhaust manifold (2 bolts I believe). Apparently, the process of welding and a flange that is on the manifold where the two pieces come together created an obstruction on the inner portion of the manifold that restricts the exhaust flow quite substantially. Get a die grinder and grind this flange down nice and smooth so that it is flush with the rest of the inner diameter of the manifold. You will see what I'm talking about when you get the manifold off. You can also use a dremel tool as I did but be really patient as it is going to take awhile to shave away that steel flange (and several dremel bits). This will make a nice little difference and will really open your little bike up!!!!!!

All these changes will have your Helix spanking a stock one quite nicely. A guy in town has one and we have ridden together. Our bikes use to be equal when I first started riding but now I can leave him in the dust both on the bottom end and in mid range. The Variator is a big part of this but don't underestimate the manifold modification.

One note...... If you use the 14 gram rollers you will have a hard time breaking 70 except under the best conditions.

Another note...... If top speed is the main concern, the sliders from Dr. P. are slightly better then the Malossi is with the 16 Gram rollers as you might get 1-2 additional mph. However, with the low and midrange punch of the malossi variator, I was willing to make that sacrifice. I started with the Dr. P's as my first upgrade but once I switched to the Malossi Variator, It was a certainty that I wasn't going back.

With these mods, I still pull 70+ MPG...... I'll bet if I rode nice I might get 75+. My best ever tank was 82 MPG but that was driving like miss daisy when the bike was stock and i was learning how to ride. Hope this helps out some. I know it will help our you Helix!



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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 07, 2010 6:03 pm


I wonder how many Swing owners here also own a Helix.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 08, 2010 8:54 am

john grinsel wrote:
Some on this forum recently described trailering to rally. What happened to riding? John Grinsel

We trailer to rallies and meets that are more than a days ride away because we prefer to combine our two interests ... our love of RV travel/camping with our love of riding.

SWMBO derives little pleasure in sitting on her ride hour after hour while on a superslab (which is what we usually must take to get to our destination). I can "boast" of a 1,000 mile superslab riding day ... but so what. All I really got out of it was a sore butt and a shoulder shrug memory. We much prefer travelling in the RV, hauling our scoots behind us, having lunch along the way, even having the restroom available when needed.

We have ridden many times in inclement weather ... driving rain for hours ... even snow flurries ... again, not our preferred state but we'll do it again. We love riding ... but we do not ride just for bragging rights.

We do not hide in bushes to change into our riding clothes at rallies because we ride and do things for ourselves ... not to impress others with our exploits and vanities.

To each their own. ~ sonuvabug ~
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 08, 2010 11:26 am

Interesting to read that you guys over the pond figure riding 500 miles or less in a day isn't a real road trip...... The furthest I've ever ridden in one hit is 563 miles; From Sint Jans Klooster in northern Holland back to Exeter in the UK - using the most direct route via channel tunnel (except for one detour of 13 miles to drop off my pillion). I learned two things that day;

A. Any problem can be solved if you sit back and assess the situation for 1 minute without flapping around like a headless chicken.

B. Its a bloody stupid idea to try and ride that sort of distance, esp here in Europe, the traffic is just way to bad.

I left SJK at approx 1030 hrs CET and arrived back in Exeter at half past midnight - knock off the 1 hours time change, gives 13 hours. That gives a ground speed of just 43.3 mph; in order to achieve that we seemed to spend a lot time at 70mph+ whenever we could.

I've ridden over most of Europe, and while the road surfaces are good, the traffic levels are very heavy, making long rides very, very tedious not to mention tiring. The phenomena of people using a trailer to bring a motorcycle to a rally is, thankfully still rare here in the UK. Shows are a very different matter. Just about anybody who owns a piece of pre 1970's Brit junk won't go near a road unless the sun is shining and will be for the next week....... All manner of contraption is then pressed into service to get set 'machine' where it needs to be. Mind you, because of this, more than one or two have on occasion 'forgotten' to replace internals during a rebuild; I've booted more than one competitor out of a show for not being able to prove that the bike is roadworthy & capable of being ridden on the road!

Bikes are for riding, not polishing Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 08, 2010 1:41 pm

Definitely got that right, Skippy. Seems like a lot of these show bike people are afraid of the dreaded blued pipe disease. Wink. As for trailering to a rally, that's fine if you have an RV and like camping. I wouldn't do it, but then I don't have an RV. And as for hiding in the bushes to change into riding gear, bah. Who cares what others think?

Don't know where anyone gets the idea that less than 500 miles isn't a real road trip. A real road trip is anywhere more than 50 miles, imho. Less than a couple of hundred might be considered a short trip, but it's a trip and it's on the road so it's a road trip.

I live about 240 miles north of the place I grew up in; Tulsa OK. And I'm going on a road trip there to visit friends and family just as soon as I get my ride, no matter what it is, S'wing, Helix, Reflex; doesn't matter. If someone doesn't think it's a road trip cause it's less than 500 miles, then that's their problem. Won't hurt my feelings any cause I know different.
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 08, 2010 4:56 pm

I only know two guys who own RV's here in the UK and neither is into motorcycling in any real way. One is a big fan of Speedway, the other is into golf!

We all camp, regardless. Since I've had my leg amputated the idea of crawling in and out of a tent has lost some of its appeal, so I got my self a 'Teepee' instead! Its ace, folding up and fitting nicely under my seat with a reasonable amount of other gear. I find I can get everything I need for a week away in a holdall that fits either across the pillion seat or on the rear rack plate. That doesn't mean that I don't pick stuff up along the way (beer, food, beer, fuel etc.) but after my first couple of forays away I discovered that just about 80% of what I took with me never got used, and because I was riding with a group of mates, usually if I did need something then it was offered in very short order.

I do carry a universal tool kit, puncture repair kit (tubed & tubeless), cable and nipple repair kit and other odds and sods - my mate had a tool kit so big it filled his top box Evil or Very Mad ! There again if I was planning a major round the world adventure then perhaps I would consider other items as well. Most probably a different bike for a start! A Honda C90 would be near the top of the list, followed by a CG125, a CX500 (bit heavy), probably a DR400 or an earlier (late model) 350 with electric start would be favourite.

I think part of the problem is the sheer distances involved on the continental USA. If I rode 5000 miles in any direction (apart from getting very wet in the sea lol) I'd be out side Europe, pretty much in to Asia or Russia. I do intend to ride to the Artic Circle one day on the Sweden/Finland route, but not before I've done the 'Ride For Dad' and the 'Amish Rally' with my bro Keith in Canada.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 08, 2010 9:38 pm

Skippy wrote:
.... I do intend to ride to the Artic Circle one day on the Sweden/Finland route, but not before I've done ... the 'Amish Rally' with my bro Keith in Canada.

Amish Rally?..Canada? Can you please tell us more.

Tim
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Skippy
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 7:45 am

Hi Tim,

Errm, Isn't 'Pennsylvania' in the US and not in Canada??? Perhaps you guys better check..........

From what I gather the event is held here:

Lewisburg Pennsylvania
4399 Spruce Run Rd
East Lewisburg, PA

I've been invited along by a friend of mine in Ottawa.

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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 09, 2010 3:21 pm

Yes Skippy,

Pennsylvania is in the US, not Canada. In fact E Lewisburg, PA is about a 3 hour ride from Philadelphia.

While there are quite a few Amish in the southern part of the state and there is a large scooter rally in the Lancaster County area where the Amish are traditionally located, I was unaware that there was also a rally in the E Lewisburg area also.

The Rally in Lancaster County (Mid-Atlantic Scooter Rally) usually held in May & September usually draws 6 - 8 riders from Ontario, Canada. Last May there were approximately 120 riders registered from all over the eastern US.

You are certainly invited to attend this rally. In the meanwhile I'll check into the Lewisburg / Amish Rally you've mentioned. However, the Amish aren't noted for traveling on scooters but more so for their rejection of modern society and their use of horses for agricultural farming as well as horse-drawn buggies for transportation.

Google Mid Atlantic Scooter Rally for more info.

Tim
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 10, 2010 10:31 am

I think part of the problem is the sheer distances involved on the continental USA. If I rode 5000 miles in any direction (apart from getting very wet in the sea lol) I'd be out side Europe, pretty much in to Asia or Russia.

Yes, size matters!

In little Belgium the two places furthest apart by road are only 193 miles apart.

I wonder what the vehicles-per-mile ratio is in the States compared with the UK or Continental Europe; we see fabulous pictures of the Great Outdoors in the States with long, long roads with not a vehicle in sight. Not quite the same here.
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 09, 2012 12:36 pm

Mike,

Europe is much different when it comes to size. My wife is Dutch and when we go to Holland it seems you can go from one side of the country to the other in about 3 hours. Here in California, it takes about 8 hours to go from the most northern tip to the furthest southern tip, maybe even a bit longer.

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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 09, 2012 1:18 pm

Yes indeed, Jeff; where we are, near Bruges, we can be in France in 35 minutes, Holland in just over 20 and Germany in just over two hours.
The Russian border is only 26 riding hours away.

I remember standing on Bruges station when I was 12, watching trains passing through on their way to Turkey, Italy, Yugoslavia and beyond.

The Belgian coast-line is only about 50 miles long.

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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 09, 2012 7:10 pm

I have had three Helix scooters. 2006, 2004, and a 94. The 04 was black and I added a black california sidecar. It turned it into something that rode like a lawnmower.

If the Helix sported a 400cc motor, I think it would be perfect. The 250cc was just a little under powered to ride on the highway, but I always had a motorcycle designed for the highway..... so the Helix was for in town riding.

I prefer the SW over the Helix, but there is no comparison in the bikes. Competely different bikes.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10, 2012 2:32 am

I had a 1996 Helix, it's performance was modest and it was happiest at 60-65 mph, keep it there and you'd get 85 mpg. I didn't find motorways and autobahns a problem either, I just had to wait and choose the right time for overtaking. They have always been a very rare sight in the UK and half a dozen was a good turnout at the few meetings I attended. At the German Helix club rallies I went over to in the Harz and up on the Baltic coast near Lübeck over 80 would show up, the majority fully dressed with Fehling chrome rails, beaded seat covers etc all going for the mini Gold Wing look.

I sold mine in 2004 and kept the fur lined scooter apron and the Sprint windscreen I bought for it, a few weeks ago I sold them to a Helix owner on of the UK maxi forums and he's already using the screen.

If Honda brought out an updated version of the Helix in 300cc-600cc form I'd seriously consider buying one, especially if they managed to retain the long low FF style, added EFI, ABS, gave it better weather protection for the hands, lockable storage and a 12v socket for the sat nav, and made it as fun to ride as the original.


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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10, 2012 7:05 am

Meldrew wrote:


If Honda brought out an updated version of the Helix in 300cc-600cc form I'd seriously consider buying one, especially if they managed to retain the long low FF style, added EFI, ABS, gave it better weather protection for the hands, lockable storage and a 12v socket for the sat nav, and made it as fun to ride as the original.

++ what Meldrew said.

The Honda Reflex might have the same motor configuration, but it does not sit like a Helix. Nothing comes close except the Yamaha Morphous and it is not a Honda.

There is a Helix knock off out there too..... but it is still 250cc.

I am afraid that if Honda did try to make a 400cc Honda Helix, it would be too expensive and the market would not allow enough to warrant a production run. Too bad. So Sad.

Morphous:

600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? IMG_2889-2
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10, 2012 8:00 am

This is old post....but would like to add---A Helix at 250cc fine, maybe 350 or 400 ok---new would have to retain ability to change belt at roadside or parking lot, the ability to adjust valves without taking plastic apart (no shims) Solid mount of engine would be nice and of course better air manament, ABS of course, bigger gas tank.
Common Honda spin on filter.


Had to take a quick trip to TX ---5 days, somewhere around 2300 miles, including 2 650 miles days (Burgman 400=poor air management!). One hot day on freeway, yesterday on return backroads of AR MS AL----Helix would have done fine. the woods are wonderful bathrooms.

Some comment on Burgman.....handlebars too high, great gas mileage 60 US for trip, 65 one tank---strange but whip it and gas mileage a little better on average.

Saw lots of trailer bikers---bike thing in Austin TX---riders all had their halloween costumes on...even driving their trucks.

Pickups driven by idiots are becoming more and more hazard to riding in US----and my Burgman or SilverWing can out accelerate them=ha ha. They will run up your rear for miles and when you offer to let them by....they don't seem to have enough motor to go by....and they, like HD riders love to stick in left lane and block.

Fresh Pirelli Diablos did their job, but on Burgman I prefer OEM Bridgestone. Dodged rain, alll day yesterday, in and out of shower, scooter advantage, no wet feet and pant legs. Fat guy on GoldWing with trailer tried to run me over once--stuck in left lane he must have been on Cruise.

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moosedaisy
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Why do you guys like the Helix more than the Wing? I had a helix in the late 90s and I honestly don't remember much about it other than it being basic transportation. I didn't do my own wrenching then so I can't really speak to it's ease of maintenance. Just curious, I remember it being very vanilla. Not a bad thing, just sort of there.
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larryinseattle
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PostSubject: Re: 600 Helix...The perfect Scooter???   600 Helix...The perfect Scooter??? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 10, 2012 8:59 pm

moosedaisy wrote:
Why do you guys like the Helix more than the Wing? I had a helix in the late 90s and I honestly don't remember much about it other than it being basic transportation. I didn't do my own wrenching then so I can't really speak to it's ease of maintenance. Just curious, I remember it being very vanilla. Not a bad thing, just sort of there.

The posture of the rider, the ride and how light it was.... but yet it had a long wheel base which gave it some stability on the highway.

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