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 Darkside.....Yes or No?

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Slick-Tenn
john grinsel
Hammy
honda_silver
tankyuong
DennisB
jdeereanton
Jeff Rosenkranz
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Hammy
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Hammy

Number of posts : 362
Age : 44
Location : Philadelphia, PA
Points : 4481
Registration date : 2010-05-22

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2010 4:50 pm

John, I'm about to put on a Sumitomo and I'm 33 and a member of the Iron Butt Association. My reasoning for wanting to try this is because I don't want to have to get new tires every few months.

I took a very short spin on Cosmic Jumper's darkside Swing a few weeks ago and had completely forgotten that there was a car tire on the back, and didn't even feel any difference in the handling at all. And I was going on a really bad road.

Most of my long distance riding is on interstates, and just in case you're wondering, John, my idea of a long distance ride is that anything less of 500 miles in a day is a short day, 1000 miles is a long day, and 1500 miles is gonna mean I don't go to work the next day. I'm not putting this out there to brag or show off. I just don't think you realize how many different types of riders are on here, and that any assumptions made online rarely pan out. Another example: many of my fellow IBA members are in their 60s, and some are even in their 70s and 80s, and several of them ride 100k miles in ONE year. My good friend is currently riding a stock Yamaha Majesty in the Iron Butt 5000 right at this very minute. He'll be riding over 5000 miles in 5 days. And he's in his 60s.

Anyway, I'm going to try the Sumitomo simply because I ride over 20k miles in a year and I don't want to have to keep buying tires. Ideally, I would LOVE to have another wheel so I can switch to my Pirelli Diablos (very grippy tires but don't last much more than 8000 miles) for when I want to go canyon carving and then the Sumitomo for when I'm going on a long ride.

We're all individuals with our own personal choices. We all do what works for us depending on the riding we do. One of my Gold Wing friends uses a rear tire mounted backwards on the front. I have no idea what you even call that -- a Backside tire? Laughing Other folks are purists and insist on just stock alone. It's all good and fine.

I think trying to figure out whether or not to go Darkside is best figured out by just trying someone's bike while armed with the knowledge that this wonderful forum provides. If you tried it before and didn't like it, John, that's perfectly fine and I'm glad to hear it -- not everyone will like something or it'd probably be too good to be true (i.e., those who didn't like it just decided to keep quiet). The rest of us will have to figure it out for ourselves when we actually try it.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 241
Points : 4504
Registration date : 2009-12-31

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2010 4:57 pm

Good one DennisB. We can all stand a dose of good humor......on a "Regular" basis..........S'cuse me....is there a restroo..........OOPS.
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edbancro
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 160
Location : Western Pennsylvania
Points : 4479
Registration date : 2009-10-30

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2010 6:17 pm

john grinsel wrote:
#2 There is difference in rim bead design between car and bike. I believe SAE paper was done on it.

Is this available online for all to read? (I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'd serious be interested.)

john grinsel wrote:
Does larger contact patch effect interconnected brake ratios----think it was designed with specific traction amounts in mind? Remember front is doing about 70%of the work in braking...maybe more as you add front yourself in linked system.Hard to mount-----didn't everybody mount their own tires? I heard in addition to getting bead to seat, some stretching required to get bead over rim.?

Since more force is put on the front during braking, then wouldn't that mean that whatever you have in the back is less consequential then? And as others have mentioned, all tires have to stretch a little to get them all (yes, I've mounted tires before), even 'real' motorcylce tire.

john grinsel wrote:
This talk of car tires will never end---I really don't think the people who are so pro car tire have #1 really ridden a lot in their life (most here seem to be old) and presently don't do lots of riding----if car tire can last 30,000 miles---you would need one at least every 18 months, if your are doing serious riding.

No, it probably won't end. But to ride a lot, to do 'serious' riding on a car tire and generate more experimental data for people to draw their own conclusions from and maybe find a better tire for their particular application, well, that requires that someone try it first. You can't drive 100k miles (with or without a car tire) unless you drive 1 mile, then 2 miles, then 3...

Even if I never go over to the dark side, my hat's off to those who are experimenting cheers :not worthy:
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Sweendog
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Sweendog

Number of posts : 154
Location : South New Jersey
Points : 4574
Registration date : 2009-07-12

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 pm

john grinsel wrote:
I really don't think the people who are so pro car tire have #1 really ridden a lot in their life (most here seem to be old) and presently don't do lots of riding----if car tire can last 30,000 miles---you would need one at least every 18 months, if your are doing serious riding. Nor interested in Track Days or possible training to improve skills.

Any Iron Butt people use car tires? When I saw Ed Otto finish Iron Butt in UT on Helix, he had scooter tires.


John Grinsel
You haven't been reading the darkside forums much, have you? There are a TON of long distance riders using darkside tires, reading their experiences and discussions aroudn darksiding is what made me realize my initial feelings were likely incorrect.

As for arguing, that won't end ever, it's human nature. Surprised
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Jeff Rosenkranz
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 241
Points : 4504
Registration date : 2009-12-31

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2010 10:35 pm

John.....Stick with us here.......You have a lot of two wheeling experience, and we honor your opinions. Jeff.
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Slick-Tenn
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 47
Points : 4091
Registration date : 2010-07-19

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20, 2010 7:50 am

honda_silver wrote:
Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
Thanks for the heads up about the mold protection. Is this something sprayed on the tire?

I do not know if it sprayed or coated

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
Slippery?

I would not push ( or try to gauge ) the tire in corners till after it is completely scrubbed and be more careful when wet. Once the tire (not just the center ) is completely scrubbed ... there is no issue.

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
did you purchase your's at a tire shop, internet,....how much

Internet www.tirerack.com ( do not mention you are putting on a motorcycle) ... you are mounting a tandem axle for hauling gear Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Icon_smile.

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
Question, I recently set my rear shocks at the stiffest possible and I noticed a big improvement in the feel in the front end. If the Sumi tire is taller, how does this translate in front end feel.

Difference between OEM 150/70R13 and Sumitomo 165/70R13 in inches:
...
Overall
Diameter: 0.82

SWing Wheelbase 62.8 inches

If I did
my Trigonometry Oblique Triangle calculation correctly then it
is a 0.9999 degree difference ... which is very small (insignificant).
The same tire is cheaper (and the shipping too) at tires-easy.com
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Slick-Tenn
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 47
Points : 4091
Registration date : 2010-07-19

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20, 2010 7:51 am

honda_silver wrote:
Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
II've just clicked on Tirerack.com and noticed that there are different performance and season options with the Sumi tire. Which did you choose for your SW.?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?width=165%2F&ratio=70&diameter=13&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&manufacturer=Sumitomo&x=15&y=11
HTR T4 165/70R13
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Slick-Tenn
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 47
Points : 4091
Registration date : 2010-07-19

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20, 2010 7:55 am

Hammy wrote:
Sweet! u guys are definitely selling me on a darkside tire once my Diablo fades... I searched tire rack but only found one tire -- not sure what options were available to you , Jeff? I also noted that the tire is 165/70 whereas my Diablos are 150/70... is that more of an issue of availability or any reason the tire size is different?
Quite simply, there just isn't a 150/70-13 automotive tire out there. Because of the generous swingarm clearance on your Swing, and because someone WAY back "experimented" with the 165, we know now that it fits and works. Make sure to order the tire from tires-easy.com. Both the tire and the shipping are cheaper. Mine was on my doorstep in about 5 days.
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Jeff Rosenkranz
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 241
Points : 4504
Registration date : 2009-12-31

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 am

Good on ya Slick. Thanks for the summary's, and the heads up about Tire-Easy.com. Now in all fairness........I need to experiment with four new motorcycle tires mounted to my Geo....... I have the feeling that I might win a "Drifting" competition. Who knows? After the Paramedics patch me up, I would like a private room tho.....just in case Nursey Cratchit feels a little frisky. Jeff.
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edbancro
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 160
Location : Western Pennsylvania
Points : 4479
Registration date : 2009-10-30

Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 20, 2010 10:08 am

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
Good on ya Slick. Thanks for the summary's, and the heads up about Tire-Easy.com. Now in all fairness........I need to experiment with four new motorcycle tires mounted to my Geo....... I have the feeling that I might win a "Drifting" competition. Who knows? After the Paramedics patch me up, I would like a private room tho.....just in case Nursey Cratchit feels a little frisky. Jeff.

A "dark sided car"? On all four wheels? Now THAT would be fun to try. Post some pics with Cratchit in the passenger seat after you get them put on Smile
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Jeff Rosenkranz
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 241
Points : 4504
Registration date : 2009-12-31

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PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 21, 2010 8:40 am

Hi Ed.......I shoulda been driving that Geo yesterday, as I wound up riding 35 miles in the rain. A 15 minute downpour with 50 mph gusts and I was dialing Nurse Cratchits home phone......the rest was just a steady rain tho. The Sumi felt great on these country two laner's. There was a section that had been tar and chipped, but had become nothing but tar. Looked like ice in the rain.......slowed and gradually felt comfortable with a steady 50mph all the way home. Once I got to town, I purposely tried to rear brake hard enough to the point of a slide. Felt predictable, excellent control. Tried to spin it at a couple intersections with out going overboard, with no luck. Needed some crosswalk paint strips to really try the Sumi, but by now I'm soaked, cold, and happy to be home. Sumi wet weather road test.............Thumbs Up!! Jeff.
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edbancro
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 160
Location : Western Pennsylvania
Points : 4479
Registration date : 2009-10-30

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PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 21, 2010 8:47 am

Jeff Rosenkranz wrote:
...Needed some crosswalk paint strips to really try the Sumi...

And maybe a couple of man-hole covers, too Smile I wonder, does putting crosswalk paint on a man-hole cover make it more or less slippery... Question scratch
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Jeff Rosenkranz
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 241
Points : 4504
Registration date : 2009-12-31

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PostSubject: Re: Darkside.....Yes or No?   Darkside.....Yes or No? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 21, 2010 9:48 am

I would like to have one of those trike kits with Sumi's mounted to answer that question........Super Slippery I bet. Quincy has a storm sewer that empties into the Mississippi. This underground line drops down the bluff before hitting the river, and during a big rain, that man hole cover dances better than Pole Dancer Cratchit at DennisB's soon to be yearly barbecue at Huntington Lake. Hmmmmm....Pole Dancer Cratchit.....????.....hopefully ShaniaB will fill in if PDC gets called in at the hospital. Jeff.
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