Drive belt slap

I am replacing drive belt at 14000 miles and the background info can be found in the introduction folder. Anyways I think I have reson to believe the vibration problem may be solved or at least greatly reduced. Today I disassembled the drive and got a chance to have the belt on a bench for a more thorough check there is no way it would measure 27mm which is max wear. And when I was cleaning up the cover and housing there is wear marks from belt slapping the cover . It was a black shiny glaze both top and bottom right next to drive pulley and I couldn't get off. There was some of the black dust that was sticky with oil but no leak was apparent. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this? To me the belt slap is totally unacceptable. A belt slapping like that sure needs a tension pulley, do later models have one? Mine is a 2012 and I'm thinking they were sold overseas for a few years after they quit the US market. UPS running way late today so when the new belt gets here that will tell me a whole lot. It sure looks like there was a lot of slack when I first saw it. Way looser than my Majesty

I kinda explained the Belt Slap issue in your other thread and the possible fixes??, condition is totally normal, you cannot use a tension pulley on a CVT belt, it constantly changes position, is not a timing belt, some Vespa/Piaggio scooters have a fixed position pulley certain distance from belt to limit belt slap. Some owners have installed rub strips/blocks with mixed results. Your sticky oil residue is probably normal seepage from the various seals. The oem grease used in rear pulley assy. is very poor quality, tends to liquify and leak past seals. There're threads with info on all these topics, search is your friend.

Start here https://www.silverwing600.com/f7-maintenance-tips-and-hints

Well explained zrx, a separate pulley system isn't viable.
What does make a difference in my experience is keeping the rollers and the clutch clean, especially the clutch blocks free moving on their pins. If any of these components aren't moving freely you're not going to have a smooth transmission.
The Italian tune-up method works for a while, but only for a while. It releases more dust so it is treating the symptoms not the problem, a sort of 'fix the horn because the brakes don't work' solution
As for measuring the belt, good luck with that, the approved method is a royal PITA. After 16k miles my last belt measured within spec, but turning it inside out cracks were visible.

Good posting Steve, yes a lot of discussions/opinions about "Belt Slap", focus on the belt, not the causes.
IMO, the belt mileage replacement interval is not realistic and the dimension check is pointless, replacement should be based on either mileage or age, ( e.g., 16k/5yrs), period. rubber ages, regardless of mileage, measured dimension or visual external condition.

It does not hurt anything--comparing to Vespa? They only get 6-8000 miles from belt with idler on some models

john grinsel wrote:

It does not hurt anything--comparing to Vespa? They only get 6-8000 miles from belt with idler on some models

Yes, but they also have a time/age interval on most models of 2-4 years, users usually only follow the mileage interval, at their own peril, is cheaper.

I think it is taken for granted that sticking with OEM parts, and recommendations, is the sensible way to go. However, the SW will withstand certain modifications before it begins to object; I'm sure this is true of most machinery.

I guess most manufacturers prefer to lower the belt-change interval to both increase profits and also try to ensure that their customer isn't left helpless by the roadside.

Which ever the case, it must be down to the owner whether or not to take the recommendations or learn through trial and error. Personally, I have often taken the latter route. Sometimes it worked and sometimes not. I change my belt every 14000 miles and I have to say, the old one never seems to show signs of critical wear......but who knows?

The beauty of this forum is the mine of information hidden under the surface. From my time here I have discovered all kinds of stuff which bothered me when I first got my SW (my first scooter). The information here resolved most of my issues and I ride my SW with less anxiety over how it is performing. It's 23 years old and rides fine.

Drive belt slap? It comes and goes on my SW depending on how often I clean out the dust from inside the cover, the air temperature, how long between rides, how much weight I'm carrying...and so on. Just saying.

Honda recommends CVT belt change at 16K for the Silver Wing and 15K for the Forza. I bought my Forza used and did not know if the belt had been changed, I finally did it with over 16K on the scoot and the belt looked fine! I installed an OEM belt.

My Silver Wing was my first scooter also and I got antsy and changed the belt at about 14K, no appreciable wear on it either.  Again a OEM belt was installed. Some folks on here have gone over 20K miles w/o changing the belt... For the price and the fact that I change my own, I prefer to stick close to Honda guidelines. Most of the premature belt failures listed were from using non OEM belts (read cheaper). My Wing is now at 15K on this belt so it will be replaced in the coming months....

One point is that I never bought my Silver Wing to be a Hayabusa. The more one pushes the performance envelope the more things wear.

Good luck.

We can off wondered off topic,  "Belt Slap". Went back and read the O/P post " slowly". Last sentence stood out, Quote

" It sure looks like there was a lot of slack when I first saw it. Way looser than my Majesty "

It appears like there's was and issue with the pulleys sticking and not clamping correctly on the belt to maintain tension, usually caused by lots of dust in the variator and/or rear pulley "Sheaves" sticking. IMO, besides dusting/cleaning area, parts, etc. , the rear pulley assy should be completely disassembled, inspected and relubed. If you're careful and avoid harsh chemicals, just wipe old grease off, you should be able to reuse seals and O rings, etc. ITOH, if your clutch bell is very "Blue" from clutch slipping, take a closer look at seals. Not to start a favorite grease thread, but by all means use the highest temp grease you can find and do not mix/add to old grease.

This the go to "Sticky" thread for the driven/rear pulley

https://www.silverwing600.com/t7766-driven-pulley-assembly-rebuild

BTW, a very blue clutch bell, indicates clutch slipping/chattering, this will also exacerbate belt slap.
Sanding clutch bell and shoes, with 100-150 grit helps in most cases.

Just an update on my belt slap. I got the the Mallosi belt ,rollers and Dr Pulley slides installed and vibration issue is much better now but for how long IDK. Easy to see the new belt is stiffer feeling and wider. I also replaced belt on Majesty to get it ready to sell and my observation is with the Silverwing you are dealing with more power applied and a greater distance between pullies than the Majesty. I  started the Silverwing up before putting the outer housing on and the belt really flops a bit but doesn't slap when you blip the throttle so perhaps a clutch that kicks in at around 3000 rpm instead of 2000 would probably help. Eventually I will probably put a Mallosi clutch in. I do have one question. when I was removing outer housing I noticed 1 bolt was a different length and looked to be identical to the bolts on front cover. Is that normal? I see absolutely no reason for it however the passenger peg allen bolts are pretty strange too . I'm not sure I get them in the right hole but it always tightens up. I don't think the previous owner or his ever took one thing off the scooter without losing fasteners

Belt cover bolts size + length detail
https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c792bf870023420a3c0b0/swingarm

The 2 OEM foot peg bracket bolts are actually the same overall length, but one has a longer shank to match the thickness of the bracket, the longer shank/shorter threads, goes in bottom hole.
Did you lightly sand pulley faces (green scotchbrite, etc.) to remove old belt residue glazing ?, it helps new belt brake in better.
IMO the OEM clutch is excellent, if you have plenty shoe material left, just sand them and bell, go on. The low engagement rpm is really good for low speed maneuvering and traffic, the engine torque curved easily handles it. A higher rpm clutch usually affects driveability and works better with other performance CVT mods. IME, the best bang for buck is Malossi white spring and DRP sliders.
BTW, there's nothing wrong with the Malossi clutch, but on the SW600 it doesn't come with the bell, you'll have to reuse old bell, sand it well, etc. not ideal IMO. Replacing the Honda OEM bell not easy or cheap.

Hi 56okie.

As you have gone this far with your CVT modding, although you didn't say what weight the Sliders were, it's been my experience that if you go lighter, ie. 26g or 24g which mine is you will light up the clutch quite often, which is why I recommend fitting the Mallosi Fly clutch (the kit includes a new bell)
Just my thoughts, hope this helps.

The O/P is kinda posting info about CVT service/mods in two different threads?, is confusing.?
https://www.silverwing600.com/t13501-new-to-silverwing-600#136598
From reading both, I gather he installed Malossi belt, Malossi 28gr rollers and DRP sliding pieces for ramp plate. Really no major change from stock configuration, besides parts been new. He mentioned a Malossi white spring, but not sure it was installed .
" I recommend fitting the Mallosi Fly clutch (the kit includes a new bell) " AFAIK, that kit is not available here in the US for the SW600, you can only buy clutch p/n 5212823. Malossi store does show available? Maybe no longer made ?

Hi zrx212.

Ah I understand now about the 2 threads.
I ordered my Fly kit direct from Malossi in Italy.
Thanks for your infill.

John.

JohnyC wrote:

Hi zrx212.

Ah I understand now about the 2 threads.
I ordered my Fly kit direct from Malossi in Italy.
Thanks for your infill.

John.

Ok, I could probably order from Italy, but shipping cost would be , I really liked the way the Fly clutch kit operated in my Burgman 400.

Just to put this topic in its place; the belt slap is an ongoing topic which can be found in the 'search' box.

It does slap under certain conditions. Signs of slapping are common on most drive covers. Watching the CVT in action while you have the cover off is quite frightening and it makes you think about the punishment that the belt takes in its' everyday life.

With regard to the clutch assembly....it's always wise to give it a 'dust-off' from time to time. The grease issue is important as shown by the sticky above from zrx212. That topic makes for an interesting read.

For me the transition from geared bikes to the SW was a steep learning curve. It's not just a case of lubricating chains and changing engine and final drive oil (shaft drives), it's almost a science. I think that's what has attached me to my SW in a kind of 'personal' way. The only other bike I felt this attached to was my Kawasaki GT750 (the four stroke, shaft drive one).

The Silverwing is getting old now so I hope this Forum may fall into the 'classic' category. It certainly seems to be a Honda Gem. Have you seen the fuss being made about the Honda Helix?

What is this fuss about the Honda Helix? I owned a US spec Helix from new 1996 to 2024. It was my first maxi scooter and the only maxi until Yamaha brought out the YP250 Majesty.

I did quite a lot of touring on it including Helix rallies in Germany and the 1998 FIM Rally in Falun, Sweden. Back then I'd use the DFDS/Sandinavian Seaways ferries to Gothenburg or Hamburg from North Shields and have the posh Commodore and Commodore Plus Cabins

I enjoyed riding the Helix with its comfortable FF riding position. It was reliable and maintenance was pretty simple! but it did have it's quirks and flaws. I haven't seen one for years and parts and spares for them must be getting patchy.

There's not many left in the UK for owners to make a fuss about them.

Helix was great---I had 4 new ones, 175,000 miles, rode the first three to 50,000 miles each and traded--easy belt change at 15,000 miles! did break one belt at end of service life--carried spare, easy change without taking anything apart other than cover off---first was japan model, others US. Japan model seemed to be smoother and faster than US model--all had same problem with cracked intake manifold---simple fix,,,just change it. Valve adjust easy. Buffeting bad as nose was too far from tip of shield--never found real fix- -low speed in Japan not much of bother, except on tollways. great scooter built in trunk wonderful !