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 New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600

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GHM-PM
Mottza
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OldGeezer-69
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OldGeezer-69
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OldGeezer-69

Number of posts : 9
Location : I-90/I-495s MetroWest Mass
Points : 44
Registration date : 2021-08-27

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PostSubject: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 31, 2021 6:37 pm

In the course of this journey i undertook to ride again after almost 50 years, i did a bunch of research & looked at a variety of makes & models.
I was also keeping tabs on craigslist & few other for sale sites.
I stopped off a descent size local bike store in Foxboro (walking distance from Gillette stadium) and struck up a conversation with a sales guy.
Once he found out, i used to live on the other side of the pond,-- i got peppered with questions about "The Isle of Man TT races"
So he happily talked to me for a long time even though, he knew i was only kicking tires on that day.
They did not appear to have many Scoot's in the showroom, but he told me they have sold quite a few.

To understand my question to him, it would be necessary to view a side profile picture of
an FSC600 -V- Forza350\ or Forza750 (or any other newer honda scoot, Integras. ETC)
MY QUESTION TO HIM WAS :-
Why not utilize that seemingly wasted space between the the top of the rear tire and the frame, for something useful like 'MORE UNDERSEAT STORAGE"
and i am aware of the single cylinder versus twin issue.
This is strictly about the vacant space under the rear fender & above the top of the tire.
See Attached picture,-which may clarify [Provided i am allowed to attach to this post]
His response was something like:-
It's demographics Man. Honda is trying to appeal to a broader audience than the typical Maxi scooter rider.
They want to see the younger guys taking advantage of all that suspension travel.
To this Day, -- I am baffled by that response.

So let's try this . . .
yeah 2 younger guys are racing down the trail full tilt, in their dirt bikes.
One catches a glimpse of the H.F 350
Look Bro.-- Look at the rear suspension travel on that.
Yeah Dude, i think i will turn  my bike in for one of these forza's .
I am sure we could catch some serious air, -out on the trail in one of those.

Yeah!, H M m m m m m, --- SOMEHOW, Me thinks that conversation would never occur.
But others may disagree,- -  & go ahead feel Free . . .
I just might be missing something.
Somebody out there, who understands my question, might just have an answer.

Personally . .
I.M.H.O. , I think the focus on the newer models would be better served, by design changes to add more underseat storage, and to somehow make the seat height less of a challenge, for those of shorter stature.
I am 5"10" but so many others, and in particular many of the ladies in our lives are much less.
My wife at 5' 5" would need massive platforms to flat foot most of these Scoots (Not just Honda’s)

Now as for using a chain instead of a nice quiet drive belt (H.F.750)
I guess if you were to press the "Wheelie Mode" button,-- The belt might break
Ergo, we need a CHAIN
R-i-g-h-t t t t t t t.. Yep, has to be the reason.
Yeah!, Ohh-K
I guess the Honda R&D dept won't be asking my advice any time soon.
Regards Everyone.
OG-69, I-90/I-495s MetroWest Mass
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OldGeezer-69
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OldGeezer-69

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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 31, 2021 6:41 pm

Trying to add a simple pic . . .
But perhaps blocked for some reason



New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 8542a010
Attachments
New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 AttachmentWastedSpace.JPG
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(124 Kb) Downloaded 15 times
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 4:04 am

Why no red lines on the picture of the Silverwing?

I venture to suggest that most maxiscooters are a compromise so everyone will be able to find fault with some aspects and praise others.

My memory fades quickly. However, I recall the side panels on the Silverwing project below the load-carrying tub which is not all that much bigger than the one on the Forza.

To lower the bottom of the tub will reduce suspension travel unless, of course, one raises the whole thing, something which will futher upset the vertically challenged.

Comparing Silverwing with Forza with Silverwing, purely for the sake of this thread: The under-seat storage of both holds two full-face helmets, more or less.

Both scooters can easily support large topboxes - up to 58 litres - which will also hold two full-face helmets. I'd rather have the latter than extra built-in space as I can leave the box at home.

As an aside: I am very aware that this forum is Silverwing600 and I have enjoyed its focus. As one who is moving on to a different scooter I am trying to be careful not to say too much about my soon-to-be replacement.
The saving grace for me in this respect is that it is a Honda! Wink
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 4:33 am

I don't like the styling of the 750 Forza either, but then I wasn't a fan of it in it's earlier guises as the 700 and 750 Integra. That big dirt spreading back wheel and rear open area was a big part of my lack of interest in all of them.

But like the similarly styled Honda X-ADV adventure scooter none of these maxi scooters were designed with much under seat storage, if you want to carry stuff you buy the Honda panniers/saddlebags and top box.

If you want a maxi scooter with generous under seat storage go buy a 2007-2017 Suzuki Burgman 400 which has 62 litres, 7 litres more than the Silver Wing's 55 litres.

I doubt if there's much difference between the under seat storage space on my 2018 Forza 300 and the new 2021 Forza 350. Neither has the capacity of the Silver Wing, but as they're designed as lighter, sportier, and more compact style of scooter it's expected.

The publicity blurbs say two full face helmets, well I know for certain that my adventure style Schuberth E1 won't fit, and I doubt if my M1 open face will either without a lot of shuffling about. Not that I care anyway, I've always preferred to store my helmets in my Givi E55 top box.

Anyway it's not a real world issue for those on the other side of the Pond as Honda Powersports have neither the Forza 350 or 750 in their 2021 scooter range.
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Mottza
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 5:24 am

I struggled to fit my helmet under my 2014 Forza 300, where the Wing will fit it easily. But there was plenty of space in the Forza.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 6:49 am

Regarding helmets under the seat: it is noted in some of the reviews that the bulkiest of helmets won't fit.
I share Meldrew's preference for putting my Nolan N44 or N70 in the topbox.

I note, too, that there is a rear hugger available for the 350. I think it should be a standard feature but there we are.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 7:48 am

Owning a Silver Wing and a Gen 1 Forza, I prefer the underseat space on the Wing. The Forza has space but it is odd shaped and not as usable in my opinion.
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Mottza
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 8:58 am

Yes the Forza is like it's split into two as the seat comes into middle.
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JamieB
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 3:03 pm

Hi, yes always put my helmet in the top box, plenty of room and at the right height.

Only thing I have ever put in the top box was the Chinese take out I picked up on Sunday!
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Mottza
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Mottza

Number of posts : 61
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 4:57 pm

Oddly the seat would not lock tonight when I had the helmet under the seat Shocked
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OldGeezer-69
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 01, 2021 5:22 pm

Thanks for all the responses.
I probably should have succinctly summarized before sign off.
In no way, was my rant a criticism of the other models in the Honda range.
It was more of an observation on my part, which if i were to paraphrase in a single sentence would
read "HONDA HAS YET TO MAKE A TRUE REPLACEMENT FOR THE SW".
Having observed this forum for some time before joining, i realize that many in the UK & Euro markets have transitioned to other models, most notably the HF 350.
Indeed it would seem to be a descent crossover for riders in those markets as fuel prices are more of an issue.
Also the ubiquitous presence of traffic cameras, have in all likelihood,- kept highway speed in the < 85Mph region.
So the HF350, fits in rather well in that scenario.
Were it available here
and
If if i did not need to travel, some of the fast Highway stretches that i do, - - then if would indeed rise mighty high on my short list.
Since neither is the case, i have my FSC600d.

Not a huge fan of "Givi" boxes, pannier boxes, saddle bags etc, from an aesthetic perspective. But i do get the need, - long trips etc, and indeed my SW has a Givi.

It is my belief, if Honda could improve under seat storage, as well as a reduction in seat height., they would see Increased sales, not just from guy's but also from the fairer sex (largely untapped market).

Again just the opinion's of an old Dude.
"your mileage may vary"

Regards to all
OldGeezer-69
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 3:02 am

I think the main issue is the modern trend to shorten the rear end of the bike, something applied to most modern designs. Any underseat space is good but luggage capacity has decreased across the board recently, the latest burgman 400 and goldwing being good examples.
Fashion I expect, form over function.
BTW Oldgeezer speed cameras ain't everywhere over here. Cameras are expensive thing so need to justify their existence, go to the quiet roads and you have carte blanche - not that I would condone such behaviour 😉
Fuel costs though are a PITA, but that's a whole other discussion 🙄
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 4:24 am

I've read a few posts on here over the years from usually new members bemoaning that Honda hasn't brought out a replacement for the Silver Wing.

Well for a start it was on sale in North America for around 13 years basically unchanged, and over this side of the Pond around 16 years. It probably wasn't a big seller on either side of the Pond as neither side got the updated 600 and 400 SW-T versions Europe got in 2009.

So unless you were late to the party or dismissive of maxi scooters generally, until bad backs, knackered knees, or other physical conditions set in. Then you were 'forced' into riding one, simply because you could no longer hack it on a motorcycle. Then discovered that maxi scooters were both practical and fun to ride.

Suzuki similarly discontinued the lard ass and long in the tooth 650 Burgman a couple of years after giving it a facelift. I've had both Silver Wing and big Burgman and as time goes by I'm not particularly nostalgic about either of them. Since Mrs M hung up her helmet a few years ago I don’t need of a 600cc plus maxi scooter any more, or the weight of that extra engine cylinder. There's more of a fun factor going back to a lighter maxi scooter too,

Maybe Honda should design a new 300 or 350 feet forward maxi scooter along the lines of the much loved and missed CN250 Helix. I'm sure it would appeal to a much wider range of riders than the Silver Wing.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 5:08 am

MikeO wrote:
I note, too, that there is a rear hugger available for the 350. I think it should be a standard feature but there we are.

Three years ago this month when I was ordering my new Forza 300, I was a bit miffed to see a rear hugger on the also new 125 but not on the 300.

I needn't have worried though as the rear end of the 300 stays a lot freer of road crap and muck than the Silver Wing, and it's a lot easier to wash and clean. I've seen rear huggers on sale specifically for my version of the Forza, and I may buy one sometime one in future, it depends on how long I decide to keep the Forza.

After the badly fitting eBay side stand foots I bought from China, I'm naturally wary of buying a Chinese made hugger
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 11:31 am

Meldrew wrote:
the rear end of the 300 stays a lot freer of road crap and muck than the Silver Wing, and it's a lot easier to wash and clean

Thank you for that tit-bit; I'll save my pennies and not buy a hugger.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 3:49 pm

More money to spend on fuel, coffee and cake Mike 👍
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 02, 2021 5:19 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing cheers
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Mottza
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 03, 2021 4:12 am

He'll certainly notice the difference between the Wing and Forza's economy.

Not that I'm bothered for the milage I do and the power :D
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 03, 2021 12:18 pm

I've been doing a hundred miles a day this week on the Silver Bus and I'm getting tired of filling it up. Yeah it has the whoosh but that comes at a price and the small tank interrupts progress too much if use the speed. This has led me to limiting myself to about 50mph.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 03, 2021 1:18 pm

I've no idea what year Silver Wing you have but the pre-2008 models were pretty thirsty beasts, and every British bike mag mentioned this in their road tests for years. It certainly put me off buying one for years too.

I bought a new 2010 model and on the odd occasions I've worked out the mpg after filling the tank it was usually around 63 - 67 mpg. I've gone 170 or miles on the trip a few time before stopping to fill up. If I remember correctly the Silver Wing has a 15 or 16 litre tank capacity.

My 2018 Forza 300 has a 11 litre tank capacity and I've ran it to 200 miles a couple of times with it on reserve. It's not too difficult as I can scroll up tank range and remaining fuel on the display.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 03, 2021 1:32 pm

2004.
I'm getting about 160 miles. If I played chicken I suppose I could get another 30 or so but it was 11.45 when I got home last night and that's not the time of night for that game.

I comprehensively thrashed the plastics a few weeks ago in a fall so even at the breakers, it's hardly worth anything. The upside is that I don't lock it now and don't even garage it - even though there's space for it. Very convenient. Maybe it will stay with me for the winter.

And of course - this is after I sorted the handling and the brakes.

Edit: sort -> sorted


Last edited by smellybeard on Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600   New Honda Scoots -vs- FSC600 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 03, 2021 1:54 pm

smellybeard wrote:
I've been doing a hundred miles a day this week on the Silver Bus and I'm getting tired of filling it up. Yeah it has the whoosh but that comes at a price and the small tank interrupts progress too much if use the speed. This has led me to limiting myself to about 50mph.

Just as an FYI, any time you exceed 5000 rpm fuel consumption increases proportionally.
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