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 Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed

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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 24, 2020 6:37 pm

Hi from Northern Ontario, Canada. I`ve got my "new" 2006 Silverwing FSC600A torn down so that installing the
wiring for new grip heaters, a seat heater and a 12V power outlet in the factory-provided hole in the left glove box is simplified. Virtually all body panels are off. I'm also stealing the tool storage tray to locate a PDM60 power distribution module for ease of future mods and maintenance work. During the tear down I discovered that a few of the hard plastic body tabs and a couple of black plastic screw standoffs were broken, in particular the ones holding the left side of the meter panel. How that happened and was left unrepaired on a machine with only 14K km is disturbing to me but I intend to fix it if I can.

I believe that there are at least two different plastics used in the Silverwing body panels but stand to be corrected on that point. I see that many people refer to these collectively as "Tupperware", which is an excellent and amusing analogy but I think Tupperware is primarily polyethylene and not the ABS that many seem to think is the primary body plastic for the Silverwing. If it is indeed ABS, which is highly probable, "Plumbingware" may be a more accurate nickname! I may be wrong on that point too.

So, I just don't know what is used but my machine has both the hard, thick plastic for the showy painted body panels and the softer black, thinner, flexible plastic for the lower parts like the large step floor that surrounds the gas filler cap; this material seems to me more like the PVC that I think is used for vinyl siding. Even that material I'm not sure about. My step floor  has the following stamped on it: "64320-MCTA-0000  MCTA STEP FLOOR >PP<"; actually the angle bracket symbols are missing on this particular part but they are prominent on most of the other body panels. Could PP mean PolyPropylene? Fortunately, Honda has provided this information but it is cryptic and needs careful interpretation; for example, on the underside of the right lid pocket is stamped: "LID RH POCKET 64461-MCT-6100 Honda >ABS<. So it's easy for me to jump to the happy conclusion that items surrounded by angle brackets indicate the material of the part, but nowhere have I seen this explicitly stated. I think I've seen something like this on General Motors plastic parts too, so maybe this is an industry standard.

What I do know from mostly unsuccessful experience is that it is imperative to match the glue to the specific plastic to have a reasonable chance for a good repair. I've had excellent results with yellow ABS cement on black ABS plumbing pipe and with the primers and cements sold specifically for PVC & CPVC pipe. Most of the Super or Gorilla glues I've tried on small and difficult jobs have generally failed after a short time for me. Does anyone out there really know what plastics are used on the 2006 Silverwing?

I've taken these pictures to illustrate my points:

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020910
This first picture shows the back of the Meter Panel with a cracked bracket and the broken standoff part which is still held in place by a screw. This is an example of the softer black plastic, which may be... PolyPropylene? Stamping on the back of the Meter Panel states: "Honda >PP-T<, so already my theory has an exception.  
Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020912
This stamping, which declares: "Honda >PP< 64361-MCT-0000 PANEL METER" is not actually on the back of the Meter Panel but is on the Meter Panel Bezel and is what is what is leading me to think the soft black plastic may be PolyPropylene. I'd like to be sure before attempting any glue-ups.
Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020911
This third picture illustrates a broken-off hard plastic tab; my supposition from stampings on the other painted, hard plastic body panels is that it too is ABS.

I'd appreciate comments from people who know this stuff and that are specific and scientifically based. I've had suggestions from friends and have read posts that feature products that are just not reasonably available in Canada. I'd probably try one of those if I felt it would definitely work. In my opinion, it takes too much time and is too costly to experiment.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
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Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 945
Location : Allentown PA.
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Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm

Search Plast-Aid.  I've repaired a few tabs works great strong bond and smell. Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Plast10

Not sure what type panels are made of but this stuff works well.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3553
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8269
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 24, 2020 11:36 pm

Yes, you folks up in the GWN can’t seem to get your hands on Plast-Aid. But all is not lost. See this link to a previous discussion of body panel repair. Of particular note is Sonuvabug’s post: 
https://www.silverwing600.com/t11792-bodywork-paint-repair

Edit. Here is a fairing repair video link: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhTtikXYXzo


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 198
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 455
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 1:14 am

You are quite correct that the meter panel is polypropylene (PP) and I suspect the rear fender and inner fender, luggage box are too, but the painted parts on mine are all ABS, as are the centre cowl (over the engine/floorboards) and upper (around the instruments) and lower (glove box etc) front cowls.

PP is a beast to glue and I haven't had much luck, and also haven't tried too hard, as I only have a locating post broken on the back of the instruments which I "welded" with my soldering iron.

For the ABS I have used Permatex Plastic Weld (2-part epoxy), and also Plastex (powder + solvent) and both have been great. I've had to work on the front fairing and both the side skirts extensively, plus the parts around the glove boxes. The Permatex is incredibly strong and I have used that to refix broken mounting tabs and sockets. The Plastex is really good for bodywork cracks. Watch some "HOw to With Kel" videos for, well, how to...including using Drywall fibreglass tape to reinforce bits.

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The Bern
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
The Bern

Number of posts : 895
Location : Telford, UK
Points : 3145
Registration date : 2014-11-20

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 5:23 am

SUPER GLUE ALL PLASTICS, 2G works well PP & PE bud

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Loc7254004a

Datasheet & instructions here ... http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2330648.pdf?_ga=2.138993268.691865389.1601025128-1281367797.1601025128&_gac=1.15519362.1601025696.EAIaIQobChMIzKmcyPqD7AIVUObtCh1-VQmNEAQYBSABEgIVgPD_BwE
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sonuvabug
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
sonuvabug

Number of posts : 481
Location : Mid-Western Ontario Canada
Points : 4240
Registration date : 2010-09-15

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 9:35 am

Gary, I've done lots of research, repair and paint work on both the PP black and ABS painted bits.  Plastifix (exact same product as Plast-Aid) is available in Canada through Aircraft Spruce Canada at the Brantford Airport. See first link:

AircraftSpruce - Plastifix

Secondly, my experience is that no glue alone will do an adequate job on either the black (PP) parts or the painted parts (ABS) parts without using additional materials for reinforcement. You have cracks/splits because they are weak points and simply returning them whole will not address the inherent stress points.  You need to fortify them with additional materials like fiberglass webbing, using bent staples as reinforcers (think rebar in cement) etc.

Third, the black PP parts are usually best repaired by plastic welding using a soldering iron or other similar heat source like open flame if you are able to and know how to control it.  It's pretty easy to do once you get the knack of it ... about the same skill level as soldering copper plumbing sweat joints.  I use plastic zip ties for my "plastic welding rods".  Your meter panel repair will likely require this approach.

Third, check out Windy Urtnowski on YouTube.  He has a number of informative videos on how to repair and restore the various plastic bits from MC's.  He does this for a living and is very good at it.  See link below:

YouTube - Windy Urtnowski - Fairing Repair

Lastly, I have collected a number of SWing parts over the years and currently have a brand new ... and ... a used meter panel that I am willing to sell.  

I also have a complete, post 2006 dash panel, with the much desired black textured finish including the raised, much sturdier cubby lids etc.  In fact, it already has the 12v outlet installed in the left hand cubby and a rheostat installed in front for hand/seat/clothing warming devices.   You can drop me a PM and let me know if you're interested in any of the above.

Good Luck with your repairs.  ~ BugJr ~


Last edited by sonuvabug on Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 9:51 am

Mech 1 twa wrote:
Search Plast-Aid.  I've repaired a few tabs works great strong bond and smell. Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Plast10

Not sure what type panels are made of but this stuff works well.

Thanks for the quick reply, Mech 1 twa. I was aware of this excellent product but it is very expensive and not easily obtained in Canada; I'm pretty sure the supplier doesn't ship to Canada. Before Covid19, my avenue around that problem was to have goods delivered to Sault Ste Marie, Michigan which is only a 4 hour trip away (and an excuse to ride!) but, as you know, now that border is closed to me.

Your testament to it's performance on repairs for ABS tabs is what I really value... so thanks for that!

Gary
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 10:09 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Yes, you folks up in the GWN can’t seem to get your hands on Plast-Aid. But all is not lost. See this link to a previous discussion of body panel repair. Of particular note is Sonuvabug’s post: 
https://www.silverwing600.com/t11792-bodywork-paint-repair

Edit. Here is a fairing repair video link: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhTtikXYXzo

Thanks for the quick reply, Cosmic_Jumper. Yes, you US folks really have it made regarding the vast and ready supply of great products... I've found I can get most things albeit at much higher cost and longer delivery time if I'm persistent enough. What I don't want to do is pay the premium, then wait, only to discover that the product won't work as hoped for by me, especially if some new skill on my part is needed. Thanks for the link to Sonvuabug's post; I think he also has answered my cry for help! I'll watch your suggested video after I've acknowledged everyone's contributions.

Gary
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 10:57 am

Terry Smith wrote:
You are quite correct that the meter panel is polypropylene (PP) and I suspect the rear fender and inner fender, luggage box are too, but the painted parts on mine are all ABS, as are the centre cowl (over the engine/floorboards) and upper (around the instruments) and lower (glove box etc) front cowls.

PP is a beast to glue and I haven't had much luck, and also haven't tried too hard, as I only have a locating post broken on the back of the instruments which I "welded" with my soldering iron.

For the ABS I have used Permatex Plastic Weld (2-part epoxy), and also Plastex (powder + solvent) and both have been great. I've had to work on the front fairing and both the side skirts extensively, plus the parts around the glove boxes. The Permatex is incredibly strong and I have used that to refix broken mounting tabs and sockets. The Plastex is really good for bodywork cracks.  Watch some "HOw to With Kel" videos for, well, how to...including using Drywall fibreglass tape to reinforce bits.


Terry, thanks for the quick reply from New Zealand! Most of the 2006 Silverwing's lower black body parts are polypropylene... from my own recent goggling, PP seems to be the "standard" abbreviation for that specific plastic. Your confirmation of Permatex Plastic Weld for the upper ABS painted panels is very valuable to me and I believe I can get it easily and economically right here in Ontario, so thanks a bunch for that contribution. I hadn't heard of Plastex before but will look into that product if necessary. Thanks also for the suggestion on "How to with Kel" videos and
the drywall fiberglass tape reinforcement tip.

One delightful tip from a very experienced auto body specialist is so practical it hurts: he suggests putting a bead of Superglue on any plastic then applying a strip of paper, yes ordinary paper, on top of the part with tweezers then saturating the paper with more Superglue and letting it dry. Optional but not necessary is to use more layers of paper. He uses this to repair plastic car bumper clips and claims it seldom fails to hold. Check it out: https://youtu.be/pzldxs_Z6DI

Gary
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 11:07 am

The Bern wrote:
SUPER GLUE ALL PLASTICS, 2G works well PP & PE bud

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Loc7254004a

Datasheet & instructions here ...  http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2330648.pdf?_ga=2.138993268.691865389.1601025128-1281367797.1601025128&_gac=1.15519362.1601025696.EAIaIQobChMIzKmcyPqD7AIVUObtCh1-VQmNEAQYBSABEgIVgPD_BwE

Thanks for your input, The Bern! I've seen this product online but am not sure that it is readily available in Canada... I believe the supplier was in the UK. That doesn't pose any great difficulty other than added cost and time to import. Your confirmation that it works with polypropylene is the really valuable part to me, so thanks for that information! Now I'll try harder to see if I can get some in Canada.

Gary
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 12:08 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
Gary, I've done lots of research, repair and paint work on both the PP black and ABS painted bits.  Plastifix (exact same product as Plast-Aid) is available in Canada through Aircraft Spruce Canada at the Brantford Airport. See first link:

AircraftSpruce - Plastifix

Secondly, my experience is that no glue alone will do an adequate job on either the black (PP) parts or the painted parts (ABS) parts without using additional materials for reinforcement. You have cracks/splits because they are weak points and simply returning them whole will not address the inherent stress points.  You need to fortify them with additional materials like fiberglass webbing, using bent staples as reinforcers (think rebar in cement) etc.

Third, the black PP parts are usually best repaired by plastic welding using a soldering iron or other similar heat source like open flame if you are able to and know how to control it.  It's pretty easy to do once you get the knack of it ... about the same skill level as soldering copper plumbing sweat joints.  I use plastic zip ties for my "plastic welding rods".  Your meter panel repair will likely require this approach.

Third, check out Windy Urtnowski on YouTube.  He has a number of informative videos on how to repair and restore the various plastic bits from MC's.  He does this for a living and is very good at it.  See link below:

YouTube - Windy Urtnowski - Fairing Repair

Lastly, I have collected a number of SWing parts over the years and currently have a brand new ... and ... a used meter panel that I am willing to sell.  

I also have a complete, post 2006 dash panel, with the much desired black textured finish including the raised, much sturdier cubby lids etc.  In fact, it already has the 12v outlet installed in the left hand cubby and a rheostat installed in front for hand/seat/clothing warming devices.   You can drop me a PM and let me know if you're interested in any of the above.

Good Luck with your repairs.  ~ BugJr ~

Sonvuabug, thanks for your quick and comprehensive reply, I really appreciate the time and effort you (and the others) have made on my behalf.

Thanks for your several references for me to follow up on; I'll do that as time permits. I'm especially interested in the
Plastifix from Aircraft Spruce in Brantford. I've been happy with my previous dealings with them.

As stated in my original post, I have little confidence with gluing plastics so appreciate your candor and caution to use reinforcing methods. Several others, and now you, have suggested drywall reinforcing tape and one auto body repair specialist suggests ordinary paper soaked in Superglue, basically a bridge of paper and hardened glue, so this must be important for an enduring fix. In my case I think the breaks are due to some extraordinary impact like an angry banging of powerful fist (or worse) on the top left of the instrument panel area. When the bike was completely assembled there was no obvious distortion or vibration that I noticed during riding but I must admit that I'm not the world's most observant guy, so that means little. There's got to be a story there but most likely I'll never know what really happened.

Several others claim good results with different glues for the ABS and polypropylene parts. If my cause-of-damage analysis is correct and the glue confirmations bear out, I believe a glue-alone fix will suffice. I tried a feeble effort to "weld" one tab on the large black PP Meter Panel bezel (the panel that surrounds the instruments) using a large propane torch and a black cable tie but was too timid to approach the panel with the torch and only heated the "filler" tie to melting and dribbled some onto the tab but the panel seemed to reject any adhesion... so no luck. I have done successful plumbing and electrical soldering but that skill and steel welding are not my strong areas of accomplishment. I just acquired a Bernozmatic ST2200 butane micro torch, so I may try a more aggressive attempt following your suggestion. However, my concern now is that my "filler" cable ties may not actually be polyproplyene because they are called nylon cable ties. Nothing is easy!

I'll PM you re: the meter panel parts you have available. I believe mine is inherently fixable but fully intact replacements have their appeal too.

Gary
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2633
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Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6889
Registration date : 2009-07-17

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 7:59 pm

For gluing ABS parts on the tupperware I use ABS cement available cheaply at a hardware store. It's a black glue basically made up of ABS and an acetone solvent. Gooey but it makes a solid chemical "weld" to ABS plastic parts. I experimented with a bit of several blobs of different glues and epoxy glues on ABS Goldwing parts and the only one I couldn't pry off the surface of the plastic piece of fairing was the ABS cement. All the others could be pried off with a chisel.

Mix the cement with sanding dust made of ABS and you have a 'weld on' putty to repair or fair in surface repairs. Best of all the makin's are cheap.

Check the forum I've described using that gooey black ABS cement from hardware stores before.
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 8:47 pm

exavid wrote:
For gluing ABS parts on the tupperware I use ABS cement available cheaply at a hardware store. It's a black glue basically made up of ABS and an acetone solvent. Gooey but it makes a solid chemical "weld" to ABS plastic parts. I experimented with a bit of several blobs of different glues and epoxy glues on ABS Goldwing parts and the only one I couldn't pry off the surface of the plastic piece of fairing was the ABS cement. All the others could be pried off with a chisel.

Mix the cement with sanding dust made of ABS and you have a 'weld on' putty to repair or fair in surface repairs. Best of all the makin's are cheap.

Check the forum I've described using that gooey black ABS cement from hardware stores before.

Thanks for the reply, exavid; somehow I missed seeing this until now but recall reading your advice in a different posting  on this forum. I've never seen black ABS, only the yellow stuff at building supply stores for ABS plumbing pipes and fixtures. Do you suppose the yellow stuff will work too? As you say, this is the least expensive option. Plastifix, which is apparently very good for these repairs will cost me $35 Cdn plus another $35 for shipping!

Gary
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GaryC
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 8:59 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
Gary, I've done lots of research, repair and paint work on both the PP black and ABS painted bits.  Plastifix (exact same product as Plast-Aid) is available in Canada through Aircraft Spruce Canada at the Brantford Airport. See first link:

AircraftSpruce - Plastifix

Secondly, my experience is that no glue alone will do an adequate job on either the black (PP) parts or the painted parts (ABS) parts without using additional materials for reinforcement. You have cracks/splits because they are weak points and simply returning them whole will not address the inherent stress points.  You need to fortify them with additional materials like fiberglass webbing, using bent staples as reinforcers (think rebar in cement) etc.

Third, the black PP parts are usually best repaired by plastic welding using a soldering iron or other similar heat source like open flame if you are able to and know how to control it.  It's pretty easy to do once you get the knack of it ... about the same skill level as soldering copper plumbing sweat joints.  I use plastic zip ties for my "plastic welding rods".  Your meter panel repair will likely require this approach.

Third, check out Windy Urtnowski on YouTube.  He has a number of informative videos on how to repair and restore the various plastic bits from MC's.  He does this for a living and is very good at it.  See link below:

YouTube - Windy Urtnowski - Fairing Repair

Lastly, I have collected a number of SWing parts over the years and currently have a brand new ... and ... a used meter panel that I am willing to sell.  

I also have a complete, post 2006 dash panel, with the much desired black textured finish including the raised, much sturdier cubby lids etc.  In fact, it already has the 12v outlet installed in the left hand cubby and a rheostat installed in front for hand/seat/clothing warming devices.   You can drop me a PM and let me know if you're interested in any of the above.

Good Luck with your repairs.  ~ BugJr ~

sonuvabug: I've sent two PMs to you but didn't know I need to have 5 posts before I can do that, so you haven't seen them. I'll try to beat the system by repeating my request here; hopefully that's not breaking any rules.

Following up on your reply regarding new and used meter panel parts, I'd be interested in knowing what you have and how much you'd want for each part. Also, I've found Canada Post still has the most economical shipping rates, so would like to use that method if we make a deal. I've been able to "weld" the broken bracket on the Case (Lower) Honda part number 37211-MCT-691 so, if it stands up to reassembly, I may not need that piece. My unit is stamped "Honda >PP-T<" but the part number is not included. The part I'm most interested in is called "Cover, Meter Honda part number 64371-MCT-770". This part number and the earlier one was obtained from an online supplier in the USA. My unit has the following stamping: "Honda >PP< 64361-MCT-0000 Panel Meter"; why the part number is different I can't explain. My success with welding the Case (Lower) was not repeated with the Cover, Meter. The Case is >PP-T<, while the Cover is just >PP<. One of my concerns is the use of black cable tie as filler; my cable ties are labelled "nylon cable ties", so this might be similar to using the wrong welding rod; what do you think?

Gary
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GaryC
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Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
Registration date : 2020-08-26

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 25, 2020 9:14 pm

GaryC wrote:
sonuvabug wrote:
Gary, I've done lots of research, repair and paint work on both the PP black and ABS painted bits.  Plastifix (exact same product as Plast-Aid) is available in Canada through Aircraft Spruce Canada at the Brantford Airport. See first link:

AircraftSpruce - Plastifix

Secondly, my experience is that no glue alone will do an adequate job on either the black (PP) parts or the painted parts (ABS) parts without using additional materials for reinforcement. You have cracks/splits because they are weak points and simply returning them whole will not address the inherent stress points.  You need to fortify them with additional materials like fiberglass webbing, using bent staples as reinforcers (think rebar in cement) etc.

Third, the black PP parts are usually best repaired by plastic welding using a soldering iron or other similar heat source like open flame if you are able to and know how to control it.  It's pretty easy to do once you get the knack of it ... about the same skill level as soldering copper plumbing sweat joints.  I use plastic zip ties for my "plastic welding rods".  Your meter panel repair will likely require this approach.

Third, check out Windy Urtnowski on YouTube.  He has a number of informative videos on how to repair and restore the various plastic bits from MC's.  He does this for a living and is very good at it.  See link below:

YouTube - Windy Urtnowski - Fairing Repair

Lastly, I have collected a number of SWing parts over the years and currently have a brand new ... and ... a used meter panel that I am willing to sell.  

I also have a complete, post 2006 dash panel, with the much desired black textured finish including the raised, much sturdier cubby lids etc.  In fact, it already has the 12v outlet installed in the left hand cubby and a rheostat installed in front for hand/seat/clothing warming devices.   You can drop me a PM and let me know if you're interested in any of the above.

Good Luck with your repairs.  ~ BugJr ~

sonuvabug: I've sent two PMs to you but didn't know I need to have 5 posts before I can do that, so you haven't seen them. I'll try to beat the system by repeating my request here; hopefully that's not breaking any rules.

Following up on your reply regarding new and used meter panel parts, I'd be interested in knowing what you have and how much you'd want for each part. Also, I've found Canada Post still has the most economical shipping rates, so would like to use that method if we make a deal. I've been able to "weld" the broken bracket on the Case (Lower) Honda part number 37211-MCT-691 so, if it stands up to reassembly, I may not need that piece. My unit is stamped "Honda >PP-T<" but the part number is not included. The part I'm most interested in is called "Cover, Meter Honda part number 64371-MCT-770". This part number and the earlier one was obtained from an online supplier in the USA. My unit has the following stamping: "Honda >PP< 64361-MCT-0000 Panel Meter"; why the part number is different I can't explain. My success with welding the Case (Lower) was not repeated with the Cover, Meter. The Case is >PP-T<, while the Cover is just >PP<. One of my concerns is the use of black cable tie as filler; my cable ties are labelled "nylon cable ties", so this might be similar to using the wrong welding rod; what do you think?

Gary

sonuvabug: I just discovered why the part numbers and names are different: it's because they are different! I looked up the wrong part; my bad. The correct part number and the one I'm interested in is "64361-MCT-000 Panel Meter". Sorry for the confusion.

Gary
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 1:04 am

ABS plastic as found in all the black drain pipes and fittings is best joined with the black ABS cement which has the advantage of being inexpensive as well as giving a bond that's more chemical welding by softening the ABS plastic in the joint and bonding it not like a surface bond, much stronger. You can also patch holes in ABS parts with the stuff. I repaired a damaged GL1000's front fender with ABS Cement mixed with ABS dust collected from my sander. The crack and small broken piece was replaced by an ABS "putty" mixture. I talked with a friend of mine who rides with the guy who bought that bike that I repaired in 1999, he told me that the fender still looks like new and the patch isn't visible out the surface. Can't ask for more.
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GaryC
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Number of posts : 15
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 8:56 am

exavid wrote:
ABS plastic as found in all the black drain pipes and fittings is best joined with the black ABS cement which has the advantage of being inexpensive as well as giving a bond that's more chemical welding by softening the ABS plastic in the joint and bonding it not like a surface bond, much stronger. You can also patch holes in ABS parts with the stuff. I repaired a damaged GL1000's front fender with ABS Cement mixed with ABS dust collected from my sander. The crack and small broken piece was replaced by an ABS "putty" mixture. I talked with a friend of mine who rides with the guy who bought that bike that I repaired in 1999, he told me that the fender still looks like new and the patch isn't visible out the surface. Can't ask for more.

exavid: that does it! I'm now looking for black ABS cement and intend to follow your advice. I don't know that it will be inexpensive unless I can find it in Canada at Home Hardware Building Centres or places like CTC but the proven effectiveness is what I want. Thanks again for this most practical of solutions!

Gary
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts : 2633
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Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6889
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 8:22 pm

Gary C., you might want to check with a plumbing shop if you don't have something like Home Depot or Lowe's. The stuff is cheap and yields a 'chemical weld' when used on ABS plastic, much stronger than a glue bond with just attaches to the surface of the medium.
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GaryC
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Number of posts : 15
Location : Manitowaning, Ontario, Canada
Points : 81
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 10:36 pm

exavid wrote:
Gary C., you might want to check with a plumbing shop if you don't have something like Home Depot or Lowe's. The stuff is cheap and yields a 'chemical weld' when used on ABS plastic, much stronger than a glue bond with just attaches to the surface of the medium.

exavid: my woes continue... for some reason black ABS cement is not readily or reasonably available in Canada but yellow is everywhere! I wonder if the black is just more popular in the USA while yellow is more favoured in Canada? I've used the yellow stuff for several decades but just on black ABS drain pipe and fittings. It is a staple plumbing product here. For sure the yellow also chemically reacts with the pipe because once glued the pipe will break before the bond and it takes heavy hammer blows to break black ABS drain pipe. I'm wondering if the black and yellow aren't chemically identical. In fact, I just read one opinion that the yellow colour simply makes it easier to verify that proper joints have been made, presumably for inspections. Have you actually worked with yellow ABS solvent cement and know it to be inferior to the black? The yellow will cost me under $7 at my local Home Hardware store for a 4 oz can while the black will cost $42 from Amazon for the same size. (Plastifix will cost $45 plus another $50 for shipping!) Then there are different grades of black too but all in the US market. I will follow-up on your suggestion to talk to an experienced person at a long established plumbing shop because I'd follow your lead in a heart beat if I could do so to quickly to finish my FSC600A work before the weather turns ugly.

Gary
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GaryC
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Number of posts : 15
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PostSubject: Action Taken   Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 30, 2020 10:18 am

Thanks for all the contributions made regarding repairing the ABS and PolyPropylene body parts on the Silverwing; I really appreciate that.

Just to close the loop, I'll explain what I've done: I tried "welding" the PP parts first with a large propane torch, then with a micro butane one and finally with an electric soldering pencil. l tried using black nylon cable ties as "filler' but that just didn't work for me... my conclusion is that nylon isn't compatible with PP but I don't know that for sure. The large propane torch is great for soldering copper pipes but much too unwieldy for the delicate heating of PP, the smaller butane torch was much better but still too hard to heat areas precisely; the soldering pencil was definitely the best and a cordless one would be best.

I managed to make a good weld on the Lower Speedometer Cover broken bracket... material is >PP-T< whatever that means.
Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020917

Weld on the Meter Panel >PP< was a different story. I ruined the broken standoffs by heating wrong spots with the microtorch but achieved an apparently acceptable fix by using a Cdn$9 steel reinforced epoxy putty called Tech Steel (nlsproducts.ca). I was able to reattach the lower left side tab with the soldering pencil... not a great repair compared to the undamaged right tab but hopefully it will hold up enough to get the bike back together soon.

Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020916

After considering all of the options presented by the contributors, I had selected black ABS cement as the most practical option for re-attaching the ABS tab on the front Cover but just couldn't find it without importing to Canada at outrageous cost; only yellow ABS cement is readily available in Canada, as far as I could determine without making a career of this task. So I tried Cdn$7 yellow ABS cement obtained from our local building supply store. The tab does stay attached but again it appears to be an inferior fix compared to the undamaged right side tab on the Front Cover.
Silverwing Body Plastic Expert needed P1020918

So, I consider all of these repairs, except for the Lower Speedometer Cover bracket, as temporary and have ordered a new Honda 64361-MCT-000 Meter Panel for Cdn $75 and a Plastex repair kit for reinforcing the ABS tab on the left side of the Front Cover from Amazon for Cdn$60, including shipping & taxes. I intend to re-address these temporary fixes next Spring.

Thanks again for all the help!

Gary
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