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low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby GHM-PM Today at 7:55 am

» What did you do to your SW today.
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby SWingSteve Yesterday at 12:07 am

» PA. Bucket List.
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby Mech 1 twa Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:35 pm

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low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby Dale N. Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:56 pm

» Final oil Drive
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby AldusFran Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:52 pm

» At 83 maybe taking a year off from riding
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby MUCHoldERwingguy Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:24 am

» Preston Loop in Nevada
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby gustav Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:03 pm

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low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby Cosmic_Jumper Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:28 pm

» Rear disc brake caliper
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby Loosemarbles Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:22 pm

» New driver on classic Silverwing
low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeby Dale N. Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:52 pm

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 low oil shut off?

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Mech 1 twa
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Freddie_I
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PostSubject: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 am

This AM got a about a mile from home, thought I heard odd engine noise and smell what seemed like burning rubber. Wasn't sure it was my SW, so proceeded slowly, got about a block further, then total shut down. Came to a stop, waited a few moments and tried to restart, dash lights on but no starter sound. Upon dismounting and inspecting I saw the missing dip stick and oil thrown over muffler etc.
Walked home brought back oil refilled being careful to not overfill, then rocked SW to distribute the oil and tried again to restart. Still dead dash lights on but no cranking of the starter. Any ideas for me to try next? Thanks all, Freddie_I
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 28, 2018 11:19 am

Yes, regretably that 'no oil shut off' is called a seized engine. 

Tim

FYI: There are several FSC600 motors currently showing on eBay.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 28, 2018 2:35 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
... snipped ... Yes, regretably that 'no oil shut off' is called a seized engine. Tim

My initial diagnosis would be the same as Tim's. Seized engine.
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Scootypuff Snr
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 28, 2018 4:07 pm

first question I would ask is did you leave the dipstick out,was it taken or did back pressure blow it out.

When you topped the oil how did you intend it to stay in the block with no dipstick? & TBH sloshing oil about isn't going to circulate the oil on something the weight of a silverwing. That's what the pump etc is for. So chances are it's a good thing no further starting took place.

Whilst seized engine seems the most likely outcome & diagnosis are you able/ happy to remove body panels and see if the engine turns.

If your S'wing isn't essential transport take your time and strip it down eliminating faults as you go

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Freddie_I
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 29, 2018 7:16 pm

Halleluiah! SW scoot lives!
So, just didn't believe a piece of machinery that conveys some folks I read about from here to there hundreds of miles at an average 7K rpms can seize up after five furlongs of barely a trot. Or was I focused upon that river in Africa De-Nile?
After pulling the battery, cleaning terminals and charging it to try to get the max amps into cranking for a last gasp effort of breaking the "seize". . . it worked!
So, exactly what happened and take away: 1. SW mavens know lots of pressure is created in crankcase that can blow off lightly sealed oil filler/dip sticks. Lets be careful before ride. 2. batteries are taken for granted, keep them charged, keep terminals clean. 3. it aint over till the "fat lady sings" for a Honda SW and I didn't believe mine breathed its las.t 4. clinically is there such a thing as a minor seizer?

Anyway, thanks for your feedback and concern.
I'll sleep much better tonight!

Freddie_I
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 29, 2018 8:32 pm

Read your problem last night. How much oil did you have to add to refill engine?

Seized engine is from lack of oil or over heated. What happens from lack of oil rod and main bearings start to wear and stick to crankshaft journals. Some will come loose and turn again but damage is done. Hope it didn't go that far. If it starts making knocking rattling noise or oil light comes on its damaged. Head can be damaged also cams stick. Hope for the best. Time will tell.
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 29, 2018 9:37 pm

I put my dipstick in by hand but turn it as tight as I can. When I take it out to check the oil I have to use long nose pliers because it seats itself tighter than I can turn by hand.
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Greysilver
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 29, 2018 11:57 pm

Hi Dale that is sound advice. Hand tight and expect pliers to remove. It sure beats looking down to no dipstick.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 9:06 am

4. clinically is there such a thing as a minor seizer?

Yes but never one that's good, especially an operational seizure, I had an engine " seize " but it had been left outside overwinter, I removed the spark plugs and used PB Blaster, loaded it up good and let it set, repeat ect. finally bumped it and it freed, BUT it was rings and a cast iron engine. High heat and aluminum don't play well together.
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 11:30 am

I've heard of flat track racing bikes which use full syn oil during pre-race laps and then drain the oil for the actual race. Supposedly the absence of oil eliminates drag on the internal parts yet the residual coating of full synth oil was still enough to keep the engine lubed and to give an edge during a race.


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 11:36 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
I've heard of flat track racing bikes which use full syn oil during pre-race laps and then drain the oil for the actual race. Supposedly the absence of oil eliminates drag on the internal parts yet the residual coating of full synth oil was still enough to keep the engine lubed and to give an edge during a race.

Knowing how high they rev and the length of the races I would put that in my gotta see it to believe it category.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm

oldwingguy wrote:

Knowing how high they rev and the length of the races I would put that in my gotta see it to believe it category.

+1

Far more likely that that trick would be used on those Briggs & Stratton-engined type Jr Dragsters.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Freddie, good info., in spite of the unsure prognosis. Some would not be brave enough to tell this story and wait for unsolicited verbal admonitions. I think that more than one of us will, after reading this, give a short, inconspicuous glance at our oil dipstick prior to mounting for the next ride.

I am wishing you the best and hoping that superb Honda engineering might help your engine to overcome the inadvertent oversight.

Glad you got it going again!

Good advice regarding keeping a strong battery, too.

Thanks.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 3:32 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
I've heard of flat track racing bikes which use full syn oil during pre-race laps and then drain the oil for the actual race. Supposedly the absence of oil eliminates drag on the internal parts yet the residual coating of full synth oil was still enough to keep the engine lubed and to give an edge during a race.

Yes, and though I would never try it, the above action proves the phenomenal advantage of synthetic oil.

I vaguely remember a video of a similar experiment in which the synthetic oil was drained from an engine and they ran the engine at high revs for a pretty long time afterward and showed little wear on the inside; whereas, a natural oil engine would not hold out nearly as long. .
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: low oil shut off?   low oil shut off? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 30, 2018 8:53 pm

Rod Main bearings in SW are not a roller or ball bearings. Fitted hard insert that needs oil pressure to keep parts sliding.

Race engines are rebuilt often and might have roller bearings that can handle just an oil coating.
Oil friction is minor just use a 0w20. Cams and chains still need oil for lubrication.

Newer cars use 0w20 oils. Fuel economy is the goal. Less drag friction but its minimal when engine is hot. 1-2% 0w20 VS 5w30.

SW of old 10w40 newer 10W30 no changes in engine.
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