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 Noice from gearbox

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arskal
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Noice from gearbox   Tue 25 Jul 2017, 16:02

Hi.

How loud the gearbox you have in Silverwing. My SW-T600 gearbox sounds like turbine while engine braking. I changed needle bearing to driven face and now this sound was gone. I think there is some bearing failure left because when I start my scooter and turn clockwise rear tyre there is some extraordinary sound in my mind. Not as big as in this youtube video but I can hear difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrLKA5-9wQY
Can you test you own Silverwing and comment here. Start your silverwing and turn clockwise the rear tyre.

Today I noticed it is possible to open gearbox without expensive tool (clutch bell puller) There is two bolts which can remove via clutch bell hole. Other bolts are outside from clutch bell. These two bolts must open last. Then you can remove gearbox cover with clutch bell and input shaft. I also measured clutch bell threads if someone want to made clutch bell puller by itself. M40x1,0

Cheers Arska
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arskal
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Number of posts : 13
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 31 Jul 2017, 14:55

Hi.
Today I served my SW-T600. Another clutch bearing was damaged (ball bearing). It turned smoothly by hand. I put the clutch to input shaft wrong side out and spinned clutch by hand. Now I heared bearing damage. It sounds like a "knock knock".
Gear box is quiet. I removed hand brake and rear brake caliper so I can heared only gear box sound when spinned rear tyre.
Fortunately, I did not need to open gear box. Wink

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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 31 Jul 2017, 16:22

By all reports the ball bearing in the Driven Pulley is all but impossible to replace. I think that some very special tool is needed to reach down (~150mm) inside the pulley to remove the retaining clip holding the bearing in.

It might be more expedient to just replace that Driven Pulley half because the bearing is, or should be, already installed at the factory. Even if it isn't already installed it would be very easy to slide the new bearing and clip in place.

However, if you are going to attempt removing and replacing that ball bearing please let us know how you did it.

Good luck

Tim
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 31 Jul 2017, 21:50

OK. So years ago, I reported that my scooter had a rear wheel noise. It is noticeable only at idle and can change to normal if the bike is rolled back or forward a few inches.
Years ago when installing a belt for the first time, and not fowling the directions here on this wonderful site, I used a method learned years before to install an alternator belt on a Volkswagen Bug, where you use a screwdriver to install the belt, while turning over the eng. and I think afterward, started noticing the noise.
I have had two mechanics including a Honda shop try and diagnose the problem, they and the factory rep were of no help. The bell housing had some burned marks and I had it turned by a machine shop. No help. I took the scooter on a 675-mile ride to Death Valley and it performed BETTER that all the BIG BIKES (15) that I rode with and the top speed on the odometer was 105! going on a slight down hill.( I COULD NOT HELP IT).  when I got home, for months, I noticed a leak due to a rubber seal.
I DO LOVE THIS SCOOTER. I now have 50,000 miles and the noise is still there and have given up on trying to replace parts of find the problem.
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arskal
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Number of posts : 13
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Tue 01 Aug 2017, 13:31

Short explanation for ball bearing removal.

Check at first this video. From 0:00 - 4:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82MUIwzfCPo
I recommend to watch this video for perfect clutch servicing. Part 1 and part 2.

Those quide pins must remove before you can remove ball bearing. (time from 3:12)
For circlip removal, I bought this tool and modified tool tip for circlip holes. This tools is 330mm long.
http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Tyokalut/Kasityokalut/Pihdit-ja-Sakset/Karkipihdit-pitkat-2000036101/

At first, bought both of bearings. Needle bearing and ball bearing.

At first, needle bearing must remove before ball bearing can remove. Use needle bearing removing hammer and some long iron rod thru the ball bearing hole. Remove all grease before, that you can see where you hit with hammer. This needle bearing is very tight to remove. Next step is remove circlip and then remove ball bearing with hammer and iron rod. This bearing is not so tightly remove.
When you install bearing, dont use the hammer. I recommend hydraulic press or use threaded rod and big washers and nut. Remember, wash you hand often, because dirt from you hand damage bearings or cause noise. Use clean grease for lubricant.

-arskal-
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johnd
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PostSubject: Noise   Tue 01 Aug 2017, 22:06

arskal wrote:
Hi.

How loud the gearbox you have in Silverwing. My SW-T600 gearbox sounds like turbine while engine braking. I changed needle bearing to driven face and now this sound was gone. I think there is some bearing failure left because when I start my scooter and turn clockwise rear tyre there is some extraordinary sound in my mind. Not as big as in this youtube video but I can hear difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrLKA5-9wQY
Can you test you own Silverwing and comment here. Start your silverwing and turn clockwise the rear tyre.

Today I noticed it is possible to open gearbox without expensive tool (clutch bell puller) There is two bolts which can remove via clutch bell hole. Other bolts are outside from clutch bell. These two bolts must open last. Then you can remove gearbox cover with clutch bell and input shaft. I also measured clutch bell threads if someone want to made clutch bell puller by itself. M40x1,0

Cheers Arska

FANTASTICO. That is EXACTLY the noise I hear. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH. bounce
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Wed 02 Aug 2017, 05:02

You welcome johnd Wink

-arskal-
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Wed 02 Aug 2017, 07:20

arskal wrote:
Short explanation for ball bearing removal.

Check at first this video. From 0:00 - 4:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82MUIwzfCPo
I recommend to watch this video for perfect clutch servicing. Part 1 and part 2.

Those quide pins must remove before you can remove ball bearing. (time from 3:12)
For circlip removal, I bought this tool and modified tool tip for circlip holes. This tools is 330mm long.
http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Tyokalut/Kasityokalut/Pihdit-ja-Sakset/Karkipihdit-pitkat-2000036101/
<>

Thank you so much for posting this YouTube video link. I am always amazed at Steven Bonacasa's SWCI "how to" videos for Silverwing service procedures. And while I don't understand a word of the Italian language he does make those procedures easy to understand though.

Thank you for posting the link to the long reach snap ring tool as well.

We all benefit from shared information.

Tim
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Sun 06 Aug 2017, 17:04

Arskal, when you removed the needle bearing did you use an expanding collet, slide hammer type tool similar to the one shown in this YouTube video, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8KclLwsYo4 or were you able to get away with using a (~25mm) wedge type split-collet tool as shown in this link? https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0381

The wedge type split collet tool is shorter than the 23mm depth of the needle bearing (it is designed for removing ~10mm deep wheel bearings) while the slide-hammer expanding collet type in the video appears to be a bit longer than the 23mm bearing depth and able to hook onto the bottom (inside) of the bearing. The inside diameter of the needle bearing in 27mm.

Tim
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 07 Aug 2017, 13:07

Hi.

I removed needle bearing with extension arm like video timeline 1:32. You can use any iron bar which diameter is 15mm or below. Then I warmed with heat gun that needle bearing and then hit with hammer and that extension bar to needle bearing border by turns left and right or all around until bearing pulled away. Do that through roller bearind hole like this guy does it with hydraulic press. With this my method that needle bearing distroys, but never mind, actually it was allready damaged. Smile

I put the needle bearing in the freezer over night.
I installed a new needle bearing with threaded bar and two nuts and washer because I have not hydraulic press. With that threaded bar you can press bearing to mounting hole. Before the needle bearing installation, you must warm with heat gun that installation hole.

I use this method because I have not any correct tools in my garage. If you have hydraulic press and expanding collect use this method as shown in this video.

Hope this help

-arskal-
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 07 Aug 2017, 14:06

I just think about one method also.
At first remove circlip and slide it to down behind to the needle bearing. Then hit with hammer ball bearing until it dorp behind to needle bearing. Now you can use expanding collect which fits correctly bearing inner race. You can remove both bearings at the same time. That circlip stay between both bearing and removed at the same time Smile

Ball bearing outer diameter is 35mm and needle bearing outer diameters is 36mm. So, ball bearing does not cause any friction while removal.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Noice from gearbox   Mon 07 Aug 2017, 17:55

Thank you again for your explanation.

Your other idea may not work because there is probably not enough room for the circlip tool to work in the 27mm space of the needle bearing.

Tim
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