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 Brake Bleeding Nightmare

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Loosebearing
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 53
Location : East Sussex UK
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Registration date : 2016-10-01

PostSubject: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:04 am

I've just overhauled my rear brake caliper. Soda blasting, new pistons, new seals, new banjo joint washers. Also overhauled the rear master cylinder. Clean up, new piston and seals kit and new banjo joint washers. Now I'm trying to bleed them.

Bought a vacuum pump system which seems to doing the job of sucking the fluid through. Did the front caliper first then the rear. The system has been drained of all fluid so I'm starting with empty lines.

The front one kind of went OK, I think, but the rear one just keeps pouring air bubbles out. The brake lever is offering 'no resistance' at all. I've used half a litre of fluid so far and I would have expected at least some resistance from the lever by now. The only result so far is that the caliper pistons have moved from the fully home position to resting against the pads, but no pressure from the lever.

Does anyone have any experience of this or have any tips or tricks. I don't want to waste any more fluid until I'm sure I'm doing it right.

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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:28 am

Did you bleed both the upper and the lower valve on the front brake caliper before starting on the rear brake?
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:54 am

After a similar struggle with a Hornet900 I found 'back bleeding' with a large syringe worked for me. If you do try it use a turkey baster to remove fluid from the brake reservoir otherwise it could spill over and of course dont re-use the fluid.
JB
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:17 am

Loosebearing wrote:
I've just overhauled my rear brake caliper. Soda blasting, new pistons, new seals, new banjo joint washers. Also overhauled the rear master cylinder. Clean up, new piston and seals kit and new banjo joint washers. Now I'm trying to bleed them.

Bought a vacuum pump system which seems to doing the job of sucking the fluid through. Did the front caliper first then the rear. The system has been drained of all fluid so I'm starting with empty lines.

The front one kind of went OK, I think, but the rear one just keeps pouring air bubbles out. The brake lever is offering 'no resistance' at all. I've used half a litre of fluid so far and I would have expected at least some resistance from the lever by now. The only result so far is that the caliper pistons have moved from the fully home position to resting against the pads, but no pressure from the lever.

Does anyone have any experience of this or have any tips or tricks. I don't want to waste any more fluid until I'm sure I'm doing it right.

Since air is a lighter fluid than other liquids it tends to remain on the surface, It does not like to flow down. Rig up a support for your IV appearing devise so that your resevoir is higher than your master cylinders. Your clear tube line should fit the caliper bleeders securely. Fill your IV reservoir with sufficient fluid so that air is never allowed to enter your down tube. Remove the tops of your master cylinders so that you can see the levels.

Open the bleed screw you have attached the down line to, I find starting at the rear works best. Allow fluid to flow from your IV reservoir backward into your rear reservoir, Slowly working the brake lever as the fluid back flows removing the air from the system.

Do not allow the level in the master cylinder to overflow, Remove the excess fluid as you progress.

Repeat this procedure on all bleed screws front and rear until you are sure that all air has been removed and you have hard levers.

Brake fluid is available in Quart containers or larger, Use DOT 4 or 5 Do not use cheap 3 or bargain fluid. Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing

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Loosebearing
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Number of posts : 53
Location : East Sussex UK
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Registration date : 2016-10-01

PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:50 am

Thanks guys,

Meldrew, I didn't bleed the upper nipple as I thought that the front brake is a completley separate line. Is this right?

Jolly Bodger, I think 'black bleeding' will be my next attempt but I'm concerned about air being sucked through the threads of the bleed screw 'into' the system ??

These are things I've picked up from surfing the subject. Of course not much of it is generic. It's a minefield out there
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Murf
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Registration date : 2017-04-19

PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:12 pm

I've never gone wrong with going to auto parts store, they sell a little bottle with a magnet attached with hoses that attach to your bleeder nipple. Just keep adding fluid to the upper reservoirs until the little bottle is full.
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Loosebearing
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Number of posts : 53
Location : East Sussex UK
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:41 pm

Wow, that sounds like a magic trick !

I'll start googling the web right away
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Loosebearing
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Number of posts : 53
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:48 pm

BTW, lloyd193,

I didn't quite get your procedure but I'm trying to use a vacuum. Is your method gravity fed or pressurized by a compressed air supply?
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:55 pm

I didn't have any problem with air leaking past the bleed nipple but you could always put a little smear of copper grease on the threads before you start.
JB
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lloyd193
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Number of posts : 93
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:35 pm

Loosebearing wrote:
BTW, lloyd193,

I didn't quite get your procedure but I'm trying to use a vacuum. Is your method gravity fed or pressurized by a compressed air supply?

Gravity feed like an IV in a hospital, From the bottom up so that all air in the system is forced up into the master cylinders and out of the Calipers, lines and proportioning valves. Happy motoring lloyd 193. swing
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:46 pm

Just a little clarification on fluid types.....Honda spec is DOT 4 (DOT 3 is obsolete)
DOT 5 is Silicon based, and is NOT compatible with DOT 4 systems or fluid.

HOWEVER, there is a new DOT 5.1 fluid that is compatible.
It also has a higher boiling point than either DOT 4 or 5!
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Loosebearing
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Number of posts : 53
Location : East Sussex UK
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Registration date : 2016-10-01

PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:46 am

The gravity feed system is interesting, I'll give it some thought.

I'm gonna have a another attempt today with my vacuum system. I'll put some copper grease on the nipple threads too, just in case.

I'm sticking with DOT4 fluid. Seems to be the obvious choice.

Thanks all, I'll update later
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phils a winger
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PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:46 am

What ive found is tying the brake lever to the handlebar overnight helps get stubborn air out of the lines and restores a lever pressure.Sounds like black magic but its worked on at least 5 different scooter and bike brake overhauls
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Loosebearing
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 53
Location : East Sussex UK
Points : 351
Registration date : 2016-10-01

PostSubject: Re: Brake Bleeding Nightmare   Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Well folks, I give in.

The bike is going to a garage to have the brakes bled. I figured that if they can't get any joy then I have a problem.

It's going in on Thursday so let's see. I'll keep you posted. I don't know about you but I'm curious !
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