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 Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?

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Maxaryaman2004
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Location : Saskatoon SK Canada
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PostSubject: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:24 pm

Hello,

My ride - a 2009 FSC600A9, Silverwing, ABS, with 14,200 kilometers on the odometer.

I wanted to poll the many experienced members of this group on a an issue that has been bothering me for some time.

I am aware that there are many shortcomings of the front suspension of the Silverwing, but need your help.

When I ride, and the front end rides over modest pavement irregularities, the front suspension is noisy. I am convinced that something is loose or not right. I cannot tell if there is a wheel abearing issue, as there is no evidence of leakage around the bearings, and I do not use a pressure washer to wash the bike, but clean it by hand. All of the items attached to the forks, such as fender, brake caliper etc are all fastened correctly.
I do not see any evidence that the bearings, that mounts the front suspension triple clamp to the frame are worn. They are not loose (that I can tell).

I almost want to say that there is some metal on metal contact within the fork tubes themselves, as the suspension goes through its motions.

I have read about some members replacing the factory springs with Hyper-Pro springs. While I understand that this improves the ride quality with progressive windings and a slightly heavier fork oil, I am not sure that there are any changes in the damping abilities (of which there appear to be none) of the fork.
The current rider (me - 185 lbs) feels that there is a fair bit of sag in the front suspension when I climb aboard. I know nothing about this nor does the owners manual address this.

Would some of the more educated and experienced members offer some ideas as to what I may be hearing and where to start my investigations/

Am I hearing a wheel bearing in the early stages of failure?
Are the suspension noises normal for the Silverwing? My local Honda tech says he cannot offer an opinion as he has never dealt with one, either new or used.

Thank you to all who are willing to take the time to consider my questions. Should I need to provide more information, please ask.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:16 am

I am on my second Silver wing ,both were A7's. I always found the steering a bit wobbly. I think it is just the way the Silver wing handles. If you have raised the front wheel and pushed and twisted for bearing wear, and found none, I would just accept  it is one of the characteristics of the bike. I have. Smile I did 40,000mls on my first Wing an 07. On my current 2014 bike 27,000mls.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:09 am

I find SilverWing front end ok for scooter......but very sensitive to tire pressure----Honda recommends 29 psi-----over that sometimes "funny" feeling.

My 2013, 40,000 miles, no metal/grinding noises. I do not monkey with springs/oil, use gators on fork tubes. Second new SilverWing for me, expect no front end troubles for the 50,000 miles I plan to ride/keep bike.

Think SilverWing has extreme rear weight bias-----high mounted Givi box/load I think can make front end feel funny.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:12 am

"...Quite a bit of sag when [you] climb aboard" and you weigh under 200 lbs? I'd say the problem is in the suspension. There shouldn't be any noise coming from those fork tubes. The only thing inside the fork tube is the big spring, the spring spacer and the bottom shock tube.

You could drop the fork tubes and remove the fork caps to check the springs. That would be the same procedure for changing to HyperPro springs. Now if your budget won't allow that you could pour out the original fork oil (IIRC it is 10 wt) and replace it with 20wt fork oil. That would also allow you to insure that the internal shock tube is secure; hopefully no one has loostened or removed that bottom bolt on the fork tube. Now, assuming all is well with the springs, etc when you reassemble the fork tube you can add a 10mm piece of PVC pipe atop the existing spring spacer. So with the heavier fork oil and the spacer increasing the preload you've now got yourself the 'Poor man's" HyperPro's.

If the shock tube is loose you'll need to jam a broom stick into the top of the shock tube to hold it while you tighten that bottom screw with screw gun.

Oh yeah, if you're going to drop the front suspension you should first break loose (not remove) the pinch bolts while the weight of the scoot is on the wheels. IIRC they at 14mm bolts and are torqued at ~95 ft lbs.

Tim
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?    Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:23 pm

Sorry this post is a little late,you may have found your noise problem. I am a firm believer in keeping things simple. Before removing parts and possibly creating more concerns I would go over the front end including checking the front axle for tightness.
You should be able to check the front wheel bearings by raising the front end and spinning the front wheel by hand. There is a chance of something new but most of the noise problems on the S/W come from the plastic on the font end. Let us know.
Howard
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:14 pm

One slight addition I'd mention to Cosmic Jumper's good write up is be careful with adding a spacer. That method does a good job of beefing up a tired spring but make sure the length of the spacer and the fully compressed spring isn't longer than the space inside the fork tube when it's fully compressed. You don't want the assembly to bottom out and pop the lid off.

On the Goldwing, which has a very similar though beefier design, the later bikes have a spring that's wound with one end wound with a shorter pitch than the other. If you put the springs in the fork tubes with the more tightly wound end at the bottom (if I remember correctly) they can make some noise.
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:54 pm

Before all the above, check the fixings of the front mudguard (fender US) as they also hold a metal bracket - a sort of fork brace under the plastic that could be rattling on the mudguard. The brake caliper mounting bolts and associated bits and pieces are worth checking too.

However, I fitted some HyperPro progressive springs and found it a worthwhile improvement. My rear spring/shocks will be upgraded soon.
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:37 pm

If I hold the front brake on and bounce the front end up and down I get a metal to metal screeching, its not particularly loud and I've always put it down to the springs rubbing inside the fork legs. I play the trumpet and if the springs inside my instrument valves distort slightly and rub against the insides of the valve I get the same sort of noise only much quieter.
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Maxaryaman2004
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PostSubject: Re: Wheel Bearing or something else   Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:51 pm

Wow!

Thank you to all who posted a response to my enquiry. I certainly have a number of things to investigate, before I go the Hyperpro route.

As soon as I have checked things out thoroughly, I will post a reply providing any information on what I have found.

Cheers! swing
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:22 pm

Could the forks be dry? Maybe the prior owner forgot to add fork oil? Or maybe the oil leaked out. That would also account for the sagg to the front suspension.
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Maxaryaman2004
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PostSubject: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue? - a followup   Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Gentlemen,

Thank you to all who responded to my query about the metallic noises coming from my front end.

I have determined that I get a loud metallic clunk when the front forks extend, as in when the wheel comes to a small pothole, or a rough railway crossing.
Upon extension of the forks, they are doing the opposite of bottoming out. I always thought that there was a small section of coil spring that was designed to take up this rapid extension, or rebound and avoid the 'clunk' I am hearing.
The shop manual shows a very small 'rebound' spring, that I am guessing is rather insufficient to do the job.

Can the experts chime in on this and tell me if they see a way to remedy this problem?

Thanks again from Saskatoon Sk.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:23 am

I doubt it was a design problem from Honda because very few report a problem like you're facing. I'd recommend disassembling the forks and inspect them. There are several things that could cause this problem. The first thing I'd try would be to drain the forks and see how much oil comes out and what it looks like. SAE15W oil or ATF fluid works well in these forks. Fork bushings and seals are also something reasonably inexpensive and well worth changing out.

Have you tried holding the front brake tightly while trying to rock the bike back and forth? If you have any play in the fork while doing that it can be caused by worn fork bushings or worn our out of adjustment steering head bearings.
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:21 am

Maxaryaman2004 wrote:
Gentlemen,
I have determined that I get a loud metallic clunk when the front forks extend, as in when the wheel comes to a small pothole, or a rough railway crossing.
Upon extension of the forks, they are doing the opposite of bottoming out. I always thought that there was a small section of coil spring that was designed to take up this rapid extension, or rebound and avoid the 'clunk' I am hearing.
The shop manual shows a very small 'rebound' spring, that I am guessing is rather insufficient to do the job.

As the forks extend, the oil dampens the movement so my guess is lack of *suitable* oil.
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:50 am

Here's a video (one of many about Silver Wings on this YouTube channel) showing working on the forks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBAEVGaCnCY
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:13 pm

It is what it is .I have 108 k kl on my 09 Swing Hyper-pro springs It always hits had on po hole.75 k kl on my Trigg Trike kit and I ride this chair.Original brake pads and no sign of ware I love my PRECIOUS and no plans on retiring my scoot.45k kl on my 175 DS and good for 15 k kl to go
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Wheel Bearing or suspension issue?   Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:28 pm

The main problem is bearings nut get,s loose steering can get a warble causing severe shake,at 40 klph if you let go the steering lightly you will feel a shake .I had to tighten mine up at 20 k kl,and know needs to tighten again. My 2 cent
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